A Roman Miracle

[Guest shiloh357]

Mobile21

As for the passage, it is an example of intercession because the mother of the king receives a petition and then presents it to her son. The Virgin Mary is obviously not there but it's an analogy.

So how do you use the 1 Kings passage to show Mary's intercession for the saints, when we do NOT have even ONE verse in the Bible that says that she does? Only Jesus intercedes for the Saints according to Hebrews.

[artsylady]

Charlie:

You made a wild accusation and now fail to prove it, after threatening to prove it! So prove it!

You place part of a quote from someone and you call that proof????? Do you think I'm an idiot??? I'm not! That is not proof at all. I am a researcher! That's what I do for a living, but you don't have to be a researcher to know that a quote from some unknown person is not proof of molestations!!!!

How does a guy having sex with hookers compare to child molestation cover ups that allow priests to roam around from place to place and reoffence, with the knowledge from higher-ups???????

You're comparing apples to oranges and not proving anything you try to assert!

As you threatened earlier on a thread, PROVE YOUR WILD ACCUSATION!!!

[artsylady]

What's my point? Duh, my point is that YOU should remove the plank from your own eye, or YOU should clean out your own chimney corner before you go trying to clean out someone elses. ARE YOU DENSE OR JUST STUBBORN?

Do you post just for the sake of wasting people's time, including your own? What kind of nonsense is this? I mentioned the child molestation epidemic in the catholic church, you come back with Jimmy swaggart???? and when I DO NOT COME TO HIS DEFENSE you tell me to remove the plank from my eye!???? You probably should join the Catholic church. You'd fit right in. Although it seems like switching to RC is a knee jerk reaction to hurt you felt by a Baptist or group of them. Rather than examining the issues and forgiving the person(s), you'd like to turn RC and hope whomever hurt you will suffer for being wrong. Sounds like you might turn RC out of spite. You do seem quite spiteful.

[Guest charlie]

Keep your eye on this thread for the next few days artsy. I didn't intend to stay up ALL night and copy and paste everything over here for you to dissmiss so offhandedly like you did with the article I placed a few posts back, on your fearless founder.

Yes, in all honesty I do think you are an idiot. I've only been coming to this forum off and on for a week or two and I've read many of your posts and idiot is exactly how you come across. I wasn't going to say something like that to you but you asked.

A researcher, YOU? I do not believe that for one minute. I read the thread you started the other day about the eastern church. Remember that one artsy? You thought eastern meant muslim. What a hoot.

You are not a nice person either. I've noticed how you treat others. I haven't tried to defend child molestors at all, I've tried to point out that there are child molestors in every denomination ALSO there are many other sexual sins taking place among the clergy that shouldn't be taking place. That's why I reminded you of Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Baker.

I might just end up in the RCC. If and when I do it won't be because of spite though. It will be because I'm searching for the way to worship God that is most pleasing. I am thoroughly disgusted with all the lies I've had the guts to face up to in the Baptist and CoC churches. Do you have courage artsy? Would you be willing to take your blinders off and thoroughly examine your denomination? I bet not. I notice you get a bit hysterical in your posts and like to print large and loud at times. I can't help but be reminded of a story I read once where a seminary student was getting "tips" from an older minister. He said when you're preaching on something and you've got a weak point, yell louder. LOL!

<<You place part of a quote from someone and you call that proof?????>>

I posted an article that went into a little more depth than you imply. It's on the previous page for anyone to read. It was not part of one quote. I also provided a link.

<<You do seem quite spiteful.>> lol, that's funny coming from you.

[Douay]

To Charlie: I wish you hope and wisdom in your search for the truth. My thoughts on the Orthodox are that some of what they do may be more traditional and along the lines of how it is supposed to be in the Church. It does not change the fact that they broke away from the Church that Christ started though. I have a little more info on this from past discussions if you want I can email or pm it to you.

Artsylady: I was just trying to point out how widespread this problem is. One in four american women have been sexually assaulted. One in six american men have been sexually assaulted. I find it hard to fathom that a very large percent of this is at the fault of Catholic priests. Why do the schools cover it up, as stated in that article? Why doesn't the press throw a screaming tyrade about that? I personally know at least 12 people who were sexually assaulted in school by different teachers, and I'm from a small town, graduating class of about 50. I know of noone molested by a clergy member of any persuasion. Look at the number of priests involved in such activity versus the number of priests in the U.S. Compare that with the general population. It isn't that bad when you look at the facts. Keep it scientific and let emotions go and you get accurate portrayals of real situations, not emotional or press hyped results.

Douay

[Guest charlie]

artsy here's another article:

Local Minister Arrested for Sex Abuse

05/09/2002

By TERESA BELL and PAT DOORIS, KGW Staff

A 77-year old practicing minister at an Oregon church is accused of sodomizing and sexually abusing young members of his congregation last year in the Gaston area.

Yamhill County Sheriff's Deputies arrested Alfredo Hinojosa Soto on Wednesday and charged him with three counts of Sodomy In The First Degree and seven counts of Sexual Abuse In The First Degree.

Prosecutors said all 10 charges are Measure 11 crimes carrying strict mandatory sentences under Oregon law.

Alfredo Soto's police mugshot. (KGW Photo)

Soto appeared via closed circuit television from the county jail for a court arraignment Thursday afternoon, where a judge set his bail at $100,000.

Investigators said the alleged victims were two girls under the age of ten who knew Soto through the New Jeruselum Pentacostal Church in Cornelius, where he is the minister. Police said the abuse occurred during June of 2001.

During his arraignment, prosecutors said the police investigation of Soto was continuing and additional charges against the minister were possible.

**************************************************************

This is really a very sad and unpleasant topic. Douay, thank you for a bit of encouragement there. You made a very good point there with the sexual abuse going on in the school system. I came from a small town too and there were two male teachers that I can think of right off hand that "seduced" vunerable teenage girls on a regular basis. One of them used to brag that he "got" him a new senior every year. In the county next to ours the high-school basketball coach was prosecuted and sent to prison when one of the parents of a girl he "seduced" pressed charges. Everyone stuck up for him at first then as more and more girls came forward, some going back as far as 20 years, it because apparent that he was not the "upstanding citizen" he appeared to be. I've lived in several different states since then and you hear something of this nature almost on a yearly basis.

[artsylady]

Keep your eye on this thread for the next few days artsy. I didn't intend to stay up ALL night and copy and paste everything over here for you to dissmiss so offhandedly like you did with the article I placed a few posts back, on your fearless founder.

Congratulations Charlie: You've found TWO protestant child molesters. One from 1907 and one from modern day. Come on. How does this logically compare to widespread sexual molestation of youngsters in the Catholic church. be honest with yourself. Please, for your own sake. It just doesn't compare.

Yes, in all honesty I do think you are an idiot. I've only been coming to this forum off and on for a week or two and I've read many of your posts and idiot is exactly how you come across. I wasn't going to say something like that to you but you asked.

I'm sorry about your perception. God gave me a good sound mind and I am grateful to him every day and thank Him and continually ask Him for wisdom.

A researcher, YOU? I do not believe that for one minute. I read the thread you started the other day about the eastern church. Remember that one artsy? You thought eastern meant muslim. What a hoot.

Okay, I'll say it once again, but hopefully this will be the last time i have to say it, because I've said it two or possibly three times. Once again folks, here it goes. I got that thread from the CATHOLIC BOARD! THEY THEMSELVES were questioning exactly what was meant by "Eastern Churches", which of course, in turn made ME question it.

Now, please try to really read and understand my posts before commenting like this. It really doesn't make ME look like an idiot in the end.

You are not a nice person either. I've noticed how you treat others. I haven't tried to defend child molestors at all, I've tried to point out that there are child molestors in every denomination ALSO there are many other sexual sins taking place among the clergy that shouldn't be taking place. That's why I reminded you of Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Baker.

I am actually a nice person and don't wish to defend myself. I'll admit when it comes to debating I am feisty, but its tiresome saying the same thing over and over and over again. Once again, here I go doing it once again. sigh. The problem of child molestation in the Catholic church is rampant. It's not just that it happens, it is also that it is covered up by higher-ups, allowing the perpetrators to continue! Understand the difference?

Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Baker will have to answer to God. Do I listen to either of them? No. Not a chance. But in the protestant religion, these are just mere men, subject to failure. No one except Christ is infallable.

I might just end up in the RCC. If and when I do it won't be because of spite though. It will be because I'm searching for the way to worship God that is most pleasing. I am thoroughly disgusted with all the lies I've had the guts to face up to in the Baptist and CoC churches. Do you have courage artsy? Would you be willing to take your blinders off and thoroughly examine your denomination? I bet not.

Why do you bet not? Actually, there are things about my own demonination that I do not necessarily agree with, to tell you the honest truth. I would find a problem with any denomination because all the denominations are man-made. But, I have chosen my denomination because I think it best fits what Christ would desire from his followers. Peace, love, forgiveness, inclusiveness and all that other good stuff.

I notice you get a bit hysterical in your posts and like to print large and loud at times. I can't help but be reminded of a story I read once where a seminary student was getting "tips" from an older minister. He said when you're preaching on something and you've got a weak point, yell louder. LOL!

Actually, I do that because I want people to see the point, usually because the point has been ignored. If it was a weak point, why would I want to make it more visible? That doesn't make sense to me.

I posted an article that went into a little more depth than you imply. It's on the previous page for anyone to read. It was not part of one quote. I also provided a link.

I didn't see the article. Sorry, that was my mistake. I did go back and find it again. You're right, there was a little more depth than just a single quote (which is an unfounded quote as of yet) Okay, the article mentions one child molester who lived in the early 1900's. You found one.

[artsylady]

Charlie:

That's a terrible story about Alfredo Soto. He deserves to be punished. And thank God his sins were exposed and he wasn't allowed to continue his perversion. But it's just one guy. Again, that's my point. The abuse in the Catholic system is rampant.

There's no question about it. Sexual molestation is a severe abuse and it's a severe problem in our society. But if it's happening rampantly in one particular denomination, you have to wonder about that denomination, don't you?

[mobile21]

Hi Mobile, I'm still checking you guys out. All I know for sure at this point is that I feel that I've been duped by fundamentalism, which is the norm for where I come from. Catholism or Orthodoxy either one will be a step in the right direction. Otherwise, I don't even know if I'll be able to hold on to any faith at all. I've been taught, and have held fast to so many lies, just like artsylady. I'm a lot like a deer in the headlights at this point. I've been saying the rosary, the fatima version, and watching EWTN lately. BTW, I challenge anyone out there in internet land to watch EWTN and TBN and compare the two. You'll be able to see the fruits.

Anyway Mobile, pray for me because I really need it. You have no idea what it's like to come from a fundamentalist background. I brought up the subject of Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy to my old mother and she got visibly upset. She indicated to me that she'd rather I become an atheist than to become either of "those". That should give you some indication of the "pressure" I'm under at the present time. My greatest fear at this point is that my research will conclude that Our Dear Lord is only a myth, much like the mythical gods of ancient Greece. Please tell me Mobile that that is not true. I've got to stop now, I'm so upset just talking like this. To be honest, I'm setting here sobbing. Has it all just been a lie? I'm older now, I wasn't expecting this. Anyway, that's what fundamentalism has done for me.

Don't worry Charlie, I'll pray for you .

As for our Lord, don't worry, I know sometimes it's a very difficult thing to keep the faith up but that's a struggle most of the Saints have experienced too, but always keep in mind the only thing that matters in our lives is to praise the Lord and consecrate all of our human suffering to that of Jesus Christ.

Every time Jesus "seems to disappear" of your life, just remember the terrible pain He felt at the Mount Golgotha, and all the desperation he had to experience at the Garden of Gethsemani and then you'll realize just how much He loves you and everything will be alright again.

[artsylady]

Thou shall not bare false witness against thy nieghbor.

Where does the Catholic church say any of this. Find it!!!!!! You obviously know nothing about the Catholic Church, but you do know a lot of lies.

I know a Catholic woman who wasn't allowed to take communion after a divorce? Is this an isolated case or is it a practice?

No one ever answered this. So what's the scoop? No more sidestepping. If you're going to accuse me and yell, then be kind enough to answer my questions. I'm only going by what I was told by this woman.