A Question for Roman Catholics

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

Be happy, be healthy, be blessed.

Edited November 5, 2006 by lovinghim4ever

[georgesbluegirl]

While the stats may not be right, the Inquisition was clearly horrendous. Nevertheless, popes AS HUMANS, are fallible. The "doctrine of infallibility," as someone rightly pointed out, ONLY applies when the pope speaks ex cathedra and ONLY applies to matters of specific Church doctrine. And its only been used a handful of times, mostly to clarify things that were already generally accepted within the Church but not necessarily officially doctrine, like the assumption of Mary into heaven.

[Arthur Durnan]

So let the Roman "papacy" speak for you. It changes with the weather. My emphasis will ever be "To the law & to the testimony; if they speak not according to this Word (as for example re a "bodily assumption", my insertion) there is no light in them!" Why dwell on shifting sands rather than the bed-rock of Holy Writ? Amen!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Fiosh]

One of your infallible Popes, "Innocent III", burned a million people at the stake during his reign of terror. Many Bible-believing Christians were tortured to death during the inquisition. Roman clergy admits to this reign of terror, yet they claim it was justified and that Innocent III is a man worthy of emulation. I ask, why not also seek to emulate Adolf Hitler? I personally see no difference between the two characters. Both were Satanic, wicked and cruel.

Hey Jude, don't make it bad! (couldn't resist)

Re: "Roman clergy admits to this reign of terror, yet they claim it was justified and that Innocent III is a man worthy of emulation"

Please cite your references to support this statement.

I've been Catholic all my life and do not recall once being told to emulate the horrendous acts committed in the name of God during the Inquisition.

Wicked men do not make the Church wicked.

Thanks,

Fiosh

[Smalcald]

No they don't, no more than Sodomite drug users make the Evengelical Church wicked.

[Guest Jude 1:3]

Leonard,

Are you not a priest in the Church of England, which traces its origin directly to the Roman church? Does not your church participate in ecumenical dialogue with the Vatican? Correct me if I am making these assumptions in error.

As for Innocent III, yes, he is most certainly admired by Roman Catholics even to this day. For example, from the Catholic Encyclopedia: One of the greatest popes of the Middle Ages, son of Count Trasimund of Segni and nephew of Clement III, born 1160 or 1161 at Anagni, and died 16 June, 1216, at Perugia.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08013a.htm

If he is one of the greatest popes, this implies that he was a man of honor, and certainly a man worthy of emulation; and yet, the facts say he was a butcherer. Go figure!

You say he did not kill even one million people? I think I am being rather modest. You have to figure the hundreds of thousands of Jews, Muslims and Christians who were butchered in the Holy Land, not only the victims of the Inquisition in Europe.

[Leonard]

Jude 1:3 asks: "Are you not a priest in the Church of England, which traces its origin directly to the Roman church? Does not your church participate in ecumenical dialogue with the Vatican? Correct me if I am making these assumptions in error. "

Actually I am a Priest in an organization called the Charismatic Episcopal Church which has a different history. We are not a splinter group from any other church. Our genesis was with three independent, Charismatic church Pastors who began studying the writings of the earliest Christians, and thus became interested in Liturgy.

[Fiosh]

Leonard,

Are you not a priest in the Church of England, which traces its origin directly to the Roman church? Does not your church participate in ecumenical dialogue with the Vatican? Correct me if I am making these assumptions in error.

As for Innocent III, yes, he is most certainly admired by Roman Catholics even to this day. For example, from the Catholic Encyclopedia: One of the greatest popes of the Middle Ages, son of Count Trasimund of Segni and nephew of Clement III, born 1160 or 1161 at Anagni, and died 16 June, 1216, at Perugia.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08013a.htm

If he is one of the greatest popes, this implies that he was a man of honor, and certainly a man worthy of emulation; and yet, the facts say he was a butcherer. Go figure!

You say he did not kill even one million people? I think I am being rather modest. You have to figure the hundreds of thousands of Jews, Muslims and Christians who were butchered in the Holy Land, not only the victims of the Inquisition in Europe.

Maybe you should carefully read things in context, Jude:

He(Pope Innocent III) prepared a crusade against the Moors and lived to see their power broken in Spain at the battle of Navas de Tolosa, in 1212. He protected the people of Norway against their tyrannical king, Sverri, .... Like many preceding popes, Innocent had at heart the recovery of the Holy Land, and for this end undertook the Fourth Crusade. ...The Venetians, who saw their own commercial advantage in the taking of Constantinople, induced the crusaders to yield to the prayers of Alexius, and Constantinople was taken by them in 1204. ...When Pope Innocent learned that the Venetians had diverted the crusaders from their purpose of conquering the Holy Land he expressed his great dissatisfaction first at their conquest of Zara, and when they proceeded towards Constantinople he solemnly protested and finally excommunicated the Venetians who had caused the digression of the crusaders from their original purpose. Since, however, he could not undo what had been accomplished he did his utmost to destroy the Greek schism and latinize the Eastern Empire.

Innocent was also a zealous protector of the true Faith and a strenuous opponent of heresy. His chief activity was turned against the Albigenses who had become so numerous and aggressive that they were no longer satisfied with being adherents of heretical doctrines but even endeavoured to spread their heresy by force. During the first year of his pontificate Innocent sent the two Cistercian monks Rainer and Guido to the Albigenses in France to preach to them the true Faith and dispute with them on controverted topics of religion. The two Cistercian missionaries were soon followed by Diego, Bishop of Osma, then by St. Dominic and the two papal legates. Peter of Castelnau and Raoul. When, however, these peaceful missionaries were ridiculed and despised by the Albigenses, and the papal legate Castelnau was assassinated in 1208, Innocent resorted to force

[Guest GWG]

Popes, confession boxes, priests, relics. What Bible are Catholics reading!?! No offense to Catholics but no where in the Bible does God say that these things are for New Testament saints (Ones who are saved by Christ) God said that Jesus became our only connnecting point between God & Man so therefore the Pope is a blasphemer because he says he is God's ambassador to man & is, in a sense, saying that Jesus was secondary to him. HE is fallible just as any human being, as any pastor or minister or evangelist, he is just a man. but he portrays himself as a man of God & his one & ONLY mouthpiece. That shows a little bit of PRIDE to me! What does the Bible say, oh yeah, Pride goeth before destruction & an haughty spirit before an fall. As I said before, no offense meant for Catholics personally.

Praise God,

GWG

Edited November 6, 2006 by GWG

[Guest Poofers]

Understanding Roman Catholicism

This is a good link. I was raised Catholic, went all the way through confirmation but was also saved during that time. It's a long story but I recomitted my life to the Lord 3 yrs ago and I'm now a Protestant. I was baptized by submersion in 2004 as it shows us in the Bible (66 books).

Thank You Jesus for wooing me back!

Edited December 11, 2006 by Poofers