What makes an atheist so scary

[Floatingaxe]

I was also trying to show that christians and atheists agree when it comes to islam and other religions.

There is no agreement between Christianity and Islam. They are opposed. One is of God, and the other is a doctrine of Satan. Mohammed was a tyrant and a murderer. Why would he ever be entrusted with a divine revelation? He was just as deluded by Satan as anyone could be.

[seanpont]

I was also trying to show that christians and atheists agree when it comes to islam and other religions.

there is no agreement between Christianity and Islam. They are opposed. One is of God, and the other is a doctrine of Satan.

I didn't say that christianity and islam agree to anything. What I said was that atheists and christians agree that islam is wrong with regards to the qur'an being the word of god, allah being god, and so forth. You may have some additional reasons for not believing it, (your faith in jesus), but when christians and atheists look at the qur'an critically and logically we come to the same conclusions for the same reasons.

[ted]

Why doesn't the Bible say anything about electricity, about DNA, or about the actual age and size of the universe? What about a cure for cancer? Millions of people are dying horribly from cancer at this very moment, many of them children. When we fully understand the biology of cancer, this understanding will surely be reducible to a few pages of text. Why aren't these pages, or anything remotely like them, found in the Bible? The Bible is a very big book. There was room for God to instruct us on how to keep slaves and sacrifice a wide variety of animals. Please appreciate how this looks to one who stands outside the Christian faith. It is genuinely amazing how ordinary a book can be and still be thought the product of omniscience.

Why?

Because the Bible, when taken in total context, was designed to reveal enough for you to make an informed choice regarding His plan of Salvation. It serves no other purpose. Each piece of the Bible is designed and included to reveal to you something which always leads to Christ. However obscure a piece may be, it's designed to bring you closer to a choice which God presents to you, and leaves the final decision completely in your hands.

The "why" to every specific question may or may not be given to us, for God does have His secrets which He chooses not to reveal to us, yet (Deu 29:29), but He does give us enough to make the choice for Him.

Each inclusion, ultimately, leaves us with a choice: Accept the Gift, or not. Personally, I don't think the Bible was ever meant to be something which would answer every question presented by mankind, but rather, it was enough for us to make a choice concerning the future plans which God has in store for us. You'll never answer every question of science, mathematics, philosophy, or any other subject we have questions about by reading it, but one: The question of whether we should accept the sacrifice of Jesus or not. In that regard, it answers the question in full.

So, all told, if you want to learn algebra, buy the proper text book. If you want to learn how to make a meatloaf, buy a cook book.

If you want to know how to attain the free gift of Salvation through Jesus and learn how it was made possible, get a hold of a Bible and you'll have all you need.

May this be the day that you choose Him.

t.

As I said in my post I wasn't arguing against christianity; I was just showing an atheist perspective. I was also trying to show that christians and atheists agree when it comes to islam and other religions.

By the way I just moved from FayetteNam about a year ago!

Keep running! This town has a way of using a strong form of mental gravity that sucks the intelligence out of it's inhabitants and actually makes us feel like we enjoy it here!

I hear you, though. I know you were not arguing for or against Christianity in that one paragraph, and I understand that the one paragraph was not to define the entire post, but I just had an urge to address that one part of it.

Knowing the stress and anguish of living where I do, perhaps you can forgive me this one time.

And I do keep a pretty fair stock of "atheism" within my mental bank to draw from. It wasn't that long ago that I finally trusted in God and Christ. It took a while for me, but I still haven't lost touch with what I was before. Although many things have fallen away from me, it still takes a while to erase 35 years of "lostness"

I see your point in that atheism and Christianity both deny all other forms of religion as false. If I'm getting this right, you propose that atheists and Christians are similar in that notion, and really not that far apart.

But, I would contend that there is still one crucial and eternal difference between the two. A difference which may not seem like much right now, but a difference which I feel will become much more apparent one day.

The trouble is: when that day comes, it will most likely be impossible for you to change your mind.

Peace to you, and continue to search.

You're really not that far away.

t.

[ted]

Why?

Because the Bible, when taken in total context, was designed to reveal enough for you to make an informed choice regarding His plan of Salvation. It serves no other purpose. Each piece of the Bible is designed and included to reveal to you something which always leads to Christ. However obscure a piece may be, it's designed to bring you closer to a choice which God presents to you, and leaves the final decision completely in your hands.

The "why" to every specific question may or may not be given to us, for God does have His secrets which He chooses not to reveal to us, yet (Deu 29:29), but He does give us enough to make the choice for Him.

Each inclusion, ultimately, leaves us with a choice: Accept the Gift, or not. Personally, I don't think the Bible was ever meant to be something which would answer every question presented by mankind, but rather, it was enough for us to make a choice concerning the future plans which God has in store for us. You'll never answer every question of science, mathematics, philosophy, or any other subject we have questions about by reading it, but one: The question of whether we should accept the sacrifice of Jesus or not. In that regard, it answers the question in full.

So, all told, if you want to learn algebra, buy the proper text book. If you want to learn how to make a meatloaf, buy a cook book.

If you want to know how to attain the free gift of Salvation through Jesus and learn how it was made possible, get a hold of a Bible and you'll have all you need.

May this be the day that you choose Him.

t.

If what you are saying is true, why do so many interpret the Bible so differently? How does one know what the "true" interpretation is?

The people from Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas believe they have the correct interpretation. Their interpretaion allows them to protest at funerals of American servicemen. They claim that America is being punished for tolerating homosexuality (those who doubt the validity of what I am saying can Google and go to their website). Yet, they have "accepted the gift" to which you refer, as evidenced by their citations of Biblical verses in order to justify their actions.

Great point, and even better questions!

Why do so many interpret the Bible differently?

Well, my stripped down answer would be this: Basically, mankind as a whole, is pretty stupid.

We create wars, we fight, we sin, we are selfish, we steal, we murder, we set up governments and abuse the power that we hold. When any form of opposition strikes, we twist truth to make it appear as an illusion to conform it to what our desires may be.

We lie, we cheat, we hardly ever want to admit when we are wrong, we don't like to own up to our mistakes, we don't like to admit when we do something wrong, especially when we are caught doing wrong on purpose. We take and rarely give back in kind, and we desire to hold others as slaves to achieve our goals.

We climb over the blood of our fellow humans and somehow find righteousness in our actions.

We keep the poor, poor. We take little real action to change our ways, and we invent excuses to cover our tracks when we are running from any form of judgment.

Is it any wonder that something like mankind would twist something so simple as the Gospel and make it appear to agree with what our desires are?

The Bible has shown us time and again, over and over, how mankind will rebel against God's simple instructions, and yet, God found it within Himself to still provide a way for the atonement of our sins. Even as we continue to twist His simple message to us, He still provides this way out through Jesus Christ.

Even secular history books reveal to us that mankind has fought countless wars over usually nothing of much real significance. Even books which have nothing to do with religion spell out the idiocy of the history of mankind.

It is this basic idiocy that drives people to continue the attempt of covering their own tracks so that even God's Word appears to match up their desire.

But the love of God, this love which He so desires us to take part in, provided the path to Him. This love will be the one thing that He bases all eternity on, and it's within our grasp.

Sadly, more often than not, we still think there's a way around it, and that's one big reason why some will attempt to justify their actions via the weak and futile attempt of marrying their sin to the Word of God. This is to their shame, because they cannot grasp this one simple fact: God cannot coexist with sin. It's simply not possible. Ultimately, they will fail.

Those without the cover of the Blood of Christ will be exposed one day to stand trial, and there will be no appeal. The chance to make your case is now.

State your case.

[sylvan3]

If what you are saying is true, why do so many interpret the Bible so differently? How does one know what the "true" interpretation is?

The people from Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas believe they have the correct interpretation. Their interpretaion allows them to protest at funerals of American servicemen. They claim that America is being punished for tolerating homosexuality (those who doubt the validity of what I am saying can Google and go to their website). Yet, they have "accepted the gift" to which you refer, as evidenced by their citations of Biblical verses in order to justify their actions.

Great point, and even better questions!

Why do so many interpret the Bible differently?

Well, my stripped down answer would be this: Basically, mankind as a whole, is pretty stupid.

We create wars, we fight, we sin, we are selfish, we steal, we murder, we set up governments and abuse the power that we hold. When any form of opposition strikes, we twist truth to make it appear as an illusion to conform it to what our desires may be.

We lie, we cheat, we hardly ever want to admit when we are wrong, we don't like to own up to our mistakes, we don't like to admit when we do something wrong, especially when we are caught doing wrong on purpose. We take and rarely give back in kind, and we desire to hold others as slaves to achieve our goals.

We climb over the blood of our fellow humans and somehow find righteousness in our actions.

We keep the poor, poor. We take little real action to change our ways, and we invent excuses to cover our tracks when we are running from any form of judgment.

Is it any wonder that something like mankind would twist something so simple as the Gospel and make it appear to agree with what our desires are?

The Bible has shown us time and again, over and over, how mankind will rebel against God's simple instructions, and yet, God found it within Himself to still provide a way for the atonement of our sins. Even as we continue to twist His simple message to us, He still provides this way out through Jesus Christ.

Even secular history books reveal to us that mankind has fought countless wars over usually nothing of much real significance. Even books which have nothing to do with religion spell out the idiocy of the history of mankind.

It is this basic idiocy that drives people to continue the attempt of covering their own tracks so that even God's Word appears to match up their desire.

But the love of God, this love which He so desires us to take part in, provided the path to Him. This love will be the one thing that He bases all eternity on, and it's within our grasp.

Sadly, more often than not, we still think there's a way around it, and that's one big reason why some will attempt to justify their actions via the weak and futile attempt of marrying their sin to the Word of God. This is to their shame, because they cannot grasp this one simple fact: God cannot coexist with sin. It's simply not possible. Ultimately, they will fail.

Those without the cover of the Blood of Christ will be exposed one day to stand trial, and there will be no appeal. The chance to make your case is now.

State your case.

I'm not sure that you answer the question of how one is to accurately interpret the Bible. You state that "mankind as a whole is pretty stupid".

Who determines what beliefs are stupid? God? On Judgment Day? If that is the case, there will be some rather surprised people that day who have assumed they interpreted the Bible correctly. For example, the members of Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) would think that someone who doesn't believe the way they do has stupid beliefs. They cite Biblical passages to support their postion. Therefore, it would only be on Judgment Day that they will find out if they are correct and the others are wrong.

Conversely, if someone doesn't believe as those from WBC (i.e. people who think WBC beliefs are stupid, and who will cite Biblical passages to support their positions), it will only be on Judgment Day that they will find out whether they are right or not.

Ergo, what is the absolute truth that we are to know prior to a Judgment Day?

Edited February 15, 2007 by sylvan3

[ted]

I'm not sure that you answer the question of how one is to accurately interpret the Bible. You state that "mankind as a whole is pretty stupid".

My apologies.

I was addressing the first of the two questions, not the second.

As to your question:

Ergo, what is the absolute truth that we are to know prior to a Judgment Day?

Among other places in the Bible, the answer is here:

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In fact, I would encourage you to read the entire Book of Romans for a clearer, more defined answer, but there it is.

And I don't mean a simple glance at the Book, I mean that you should sit down, relax, and spend some time actually digesting what it says. Once you do, spend some more time thinking on the matter. Don't just give it a glance and simply use it to pick apart what I am saying.

Actually spend some time reading it, and thinking on the matter at hand.

You may be pleasantly surprised at what you come up with.

Peace,

t.

[sylvan3]

I'm not sure that you answer the question of how one is to accurately interpret the Bible. You state that "mankind as a whole is pretty stupid".

My apologies.

I was addressing the first of the two questions, not the second.

As to your question:

Ergo, what is the absolute truth that we are to know prior to a Judgment Day?

Among other places in the Bible, the answer is here:

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In fact, I would encourage you to read the entire Book of Romans for a clearer, more defined answer, but there it is.

And I don't mean a simple glance at the Book, I mean that you should sit down, relax, and spend some time actually digesting what it says. Once you do, spend some more time thinking on the matter. Don't just give it a glance and simply use it to pick apart what I am saying.

Actually spend some time reading it, and thinking on the matter at hand.

You may be pleasantly surprised at what you come up with.

Peace,

t.

I appreciate your response, but my question at this point is: Is there only one interpretation of the Bible? If yes, then who determines what that interpretation is? For example, there are many who are not intellectually capable of understanding the Bible. Since people have varying IQs, there would have to be a cutoff point at which it would be impossible for "correct" interpretation.

(It is worth mentioning that people are for the most part born with their IQs. These IQs may or may not be because of parental neglect or other observable reasons.)

If the answer to the above is that people just need to accept Jesus, I would say that the Westboro Baptist Church people believe they have accepted Jesus.

[Guest lnj]

I appreciate your response, but my question at this point is: Is there only one interpretation of the Bible?

Sylvan3 - read my post on Massive Conspiracy Theories - firstly who gave Authority to the Bible and keep in mind...reading the Bible has zilch to do with IQ.

It's the Holy Spirit who gives you the Knowledge, Understanding and Discernment whilst reading the Word.

The revelation can be immediate with some verses or according to the pace of growth in your Walk.

[ted]

I'm not sure that you answer the question of how one is to accurately interpret the Bible. You state that "mankind as a whole is pretty stupid".

My apologies.

I was addressing the first of the two questions, not the second.

As to your question:

Ergo, what is the absolute truth that we are to know prior to a Judgment Day?

Among other places in the Bible, the answer is here:

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In fact, I would encourage you to read the entire Book of Romans for a clearer, more defined answer, but there it is.

And I don't mean a simple glance at the Book, I mean that you should sit down, relax, and spend some time actually digesting what it says. Once you do, spend some more time thinking on the matter. Don't just give it a glance and simply use it to pick apart what I am saying.

Actually spend some time reading it, and thinking on the matter at hand.

You may be pleasantly surprised at what you come up with.

Peace,

t.

I appreciate your response, but my question at this point is: Is there only one interpretation of the Bible? If yes, then who determines what that interpretation is? For example, there are many who are not intellectually capable of understanding the Bible. Since people have varying IQs, there would have to be a cutoff point at which it would be impossible for "correct" interpretation.

(It is worth mentioning that people are for the most part born with their IQs. These IQs may or may not be because of parental neglect or other observable reasons.)

If the answer to the above is that people just need to accept Jesus, I would say that the Westboro Baptist Church people believe they have accepted Jesus.

I see what you mean.

I would say that yes, there is only one interpretaion of the Bible. Ultimately, God is the final authority on the subject.

I think your question is really asking this: "Is there one authority, or a group, on earth that we can turn to for complete truth and absolute correct interpretation of the Bible".

Is that what you are asking (I only ask to make sure I approach the subject from the right direction)?

If so, then I would say no, there is no final authority within mankind to turn to who has all the answers. I think God revealed to us enough to go by to make a decision for Him, but that there are things we will not understand until later, well after events tke place which are described in the Bible. I think there are some people out there who have certain gifts of discernment that are able to understand many things in the Bible, and that others proved worthy to have a gift for teaching the Word, and that they are led to be heads of churches of which God uses to spread the message of Christ.

I think others are given gifts of teaching and are used to be missionaries around the world. I also think still others are bringers of comfort for those that need them in dire times.

All in all, I think God covers all bases rather well, when it comes to getting the message out.

I don't, however, think that He has given anyone the gift of understanding everything about Him, nor everything concerning the Bible. Some may come close, but still there are parts where we can only speculate.

All of this is to say that if someone truly desires to know more about God, and strives to know Him enough to trust in His plan of salvation, then that person will be given the right help when they call for it. Whether that means in the form of someone else, or simply a new understanding of something they have already read.

Now, that may seem simple, right? But, what of those times when two people, or groups, are reading the exact same piece of Scripture and still come up with opposing views of what it says?

Well, that's when we have to look at several things:

1. What is actually says.

This may become the issue if someone is reading it wrong, or assuming what it says without actually reading it.

Happens all the time, really. Someone says "Well, the Bible says that.....", and when you actually read it, it really says something a little different.

2. Context.

How does it fit in with the pieces around it? How does it fit in with the subject that may be discussed in other Books of the Bible.

Are we using it the way it should be with all of the best available information being used?

3. Intent of the piece.

What is the piece trying to tell us in the first place? How does it relate to the message at hand?

4. Who was it written to and why?

Cultural and language differences of the piece go a long way in finding it's true context. For the most part, the Bible was written for everyone of all ages, but there are parts which must be understood using the original language. Consideration must also be given to whom it may have been written to in line with actual events of the time it was written.

Also, words in Greek, Hebrew, or whatever may have dramatically different meanings compared to how we use them. We have to understand, as best we can, how a words was to be used, or how a phrase was used at the time it was written, and how to best translate the thought into modern language.

5. Intent of the person using the piece.

Here's where I feel that we run into the most problems. Many times, there are people who wish to justify their own actions based on a misrepresentation of what the Bible tells us. Here's where I think the people of the Westboro Baptist Church are wrong. They read some pieces, and misapply it to back up what they are trying to accomplish.

In my opinion, it is in this area where we run into the biggest problems, even more so than simple misunderstanding a piece.

Anyway, there's my best shot at your question. Most of it is drawn from my own experiences and own studies. I'm sure I may be missing something here, but others can feel free to fill in the blanks of where I fail to capture the truth of a situation.

For the most part, once you have a better grasp of what the Bible is trying to tell us, you then have a better understanding of how it is abused. The Bible is set up so even a child can grasp the message of salvation. When we try to dig too deep and completely miss the meaning, we run into trouble.

It's almost too easy to grasp, and we can easily miss the point if we are constantly trying to find hidden meaning into something where there is no further meaning than what we read in the first place.

It's like using algebra to figure out how many apples are in your lunch box instead of simply counting what you see with your fingers.

Hope this helps.

t.

[Artemus Prime]

Well put, Ted. A very nice summary, indeed. Context determines content. One does not have to be an ancient language scholar to determine the correct word usage, or to learn to use the correct interpretive tools. Scripture can never mean what it never meant.