gaetan8888 Posted December 3, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 15 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2006 Here is a small reflection; 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2 2:6 Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season. 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way. 2:8 Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nothing by the brightness of his coming; 2:9 even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, Because of the text of 2 Thess. 2:6 many Christian believe that The presence of the Holy spirit in the Christian, prevent the antichrist to appear in the world as Satan embodied in a man. What must disappear indeed so that the Antichrist has the free path?! It is written "what is restraining him" it and not the one or those that restraining him (the Antichrist), therefore this is not one or of people and this is not our presence on earth nor the Holly Spirit that restraining it, so this is not the disappearance of the Christian by the rapture that will be the reason of the Antichrist's apparition. So it is THE FAITH that is restraining him (the Antichrist)! Veils what must disappear so that the Antichrist is not restrained anymore, because this is not the rapture but it is the great apostasy and so the disappearance of the faith on earth (that is going to radically reduce the number of Christian) that is going to permit the antichrist to appear on earth. The verse 7 complicates things, the faith is the thing (verse 6), but (for the verse 7) without the faith the one that is the Christian is not anymore because he lost his faith, I think that the one that restraining him (the antichrist) is the Christian before he to lose the faith. Ga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted December 4, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted December 4, 2006 This is a very interesting and a problematic topic unless you do some studies on it. I have provided a link to one source to study, which is not necessarily my own conclusions or views here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted December 4, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted December 4, 2006 The Church, not the Holy Spirit is the restrainer mentioned in these passages. The Holy Spirit will be very much present on Earth during the tribulation period. Could you expand on that statement, hr.jr, please. What make you think the church is the restrainer. The church is usually described in the femine gender, such as she, or the bride. thx in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2006 I agree. The Church Univerwal is the the restrainer. The Holy Spirit was on earth long before the Rapture and will be here after the Rapture. The fact that so many will be saved during the Tribulation proves this. The greatest revival in all history will take place during the Tribulation; that has to be the work of the Holy Spirit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2006 The Church, not the Holy Spirit is the restrainer mentioned in these passages. The Holy Spirit will be very much present on Earth during the tribulation period. Could you expand on that statement, hr.jr, please. What make you think the church is the restrainer. The church is usually described in the femine gender, such as she, or the bride. thx in advance. As near as I can recall, Israel was referred to as the "bride" throughout the OT (or at least as the adulterous wife) and in the NT the "bride" is the New Jerusalem. Is the church ever referred to as "the bride?" Is the Church ever referred to in the feminine? If so, what are the references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted December 5, 2006 The Church, not the Holy Spirit is the restrainer mentioned in these passages. The Holy Spirit will be very much present on Earth during the tribulation period. Could you expand on that statement, hr.jr, please. What make you think the church is the restrainer. The church is usually described in the femine gender, such as she, or the bride. thx in advance. As near as I can recall, Israel was referred to as the "bride" throughout the OT (or at least as the adulterous wife) and in the NT the "bride" is the New Jerusalem. Is the church ever referred to as "the bride?" Is the Church ever referred to in the feminine? If so, what are the references. Sorry Marnie, you are quite correct, the bride is referred to as the New Jerusalem in Rev. and not the church. Thanks. However I still can't perceive how the church can be the restrainer as spoken of in 2nd Thess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eve Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 203 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/19/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2006 The "he" in 2 Thess 2:5-7 written by Paul is the restraining power of law and order as represented by the then various Roman governments. Thus the restrainer is law and order that constitutes an obstacle to the rise of the Antichrist (also known as a Supreme World Dictator). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted December 6, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Sorry hr.jr. I cant buy into the church being the restrainer. As long as the Church is present, Satan can not operate freely in this earth. He is limited by believers, intercessory prayers, etc. When the church is removed by the rapture, this limiting factor leaves with the church If the church, which is the saints who make up the body of Christ, are stopping satan operating freely, why remove it, You are correct in saying the holy spirit will be present during the tribulation period, but who is going to look after the church if you seperate the church from the h/s My last word on the subject, and I can't verify it, naturally, but right now, is this. The church is not the restrainer and will go through the tribulation period. Like everyone else, I can only speculate. have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted December 6, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 6, 2006 The Church, not the Holy Spirit is the restrainer mentioned in these passages. The Holy Spirit will be very much present on Earth during the tribulation period. Could you expand on that statement, hr.jr, please. What make you think the church is the restrainer. The church is usually described in the femine gender, such as she, or the bride. thx in advance. As near as I can recall, Israel was referred to as the "bride" throughout the OT (or at least as the adulterous wife) and in the NT the "bride" is the New Jerusalem. Is the church ever referred to as "the bride?" Is the Church ever referred to in the feminine? If so, what are the references. In Ephesians chapter 5 the church is described as being in a marriage relationship with Christ. It is also referred to using the the personal pronoun in the genitive feminine singular in Ephesians 5:25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted December 6, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted December 6, 2006 From EricH, In Ephesians chapter 5 the church is described as being in a marriage relationship with Christ. It is also referred to using the the personal pronoun in the genitive feminine singular in Ephesians 5:25. Thank you Eric, I knew I had read it somewhere. It's a bit hard to keep up sometimes with all the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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