America - Babylon the Great?

[kenod]

Yes Israel has more than 7 mountains. I am talking about Jerusalem.

Even the airlines in Israel knows that Jerusalem is built on 7 hills.

Are they racist too?

http://www.israirairlines.com/guide.asp?id...amp;menu_id=254

Holy Sites in Jerusalem

Throughout the history of Jerusalem, the Jewish, Christian and Muslim faiths have treasured the sacredness of the Holy Land and its Holy City Jerusalem. From the uniqueness of this City built on Seven Hills, each faith has flourished.

KatyAnn, I disagree with you because I believe that the Bible is written for the common man/woman - the Bible said "the common people heard him gladly". The most well known city on seven hills of course is Rome. Likewise I believe the number 666 must be calculated in Roman numerals because that is the system of numerical letters that the common person knows.

Besides this we have to put together all the other characteristics of the woman and the beast on which she was riding.

The expression: "drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" seems to fit the history of the Inquisition more accurately than it does Jerusalem.

Don't worry about the "anti-semitic" label ... I get called anti-Catholic but I am married to one, and she is the most wonderful person in the whole wide world!

[Guest shiloh357]

Please don't speak to a woman in that way, Shiloh - as an older man, I find it very upsetting.

I don't agree with KatyAnn's interpretation either, but let's get the basics right first: decent Christian behaviour.

I stand by what I said.

[kenod]

I stand by what I said.

It's the way that you said it.

[Guest shiloh357]

Babylon in Revelation cannot be Jerusalem for the following reasons:

1. Babylon has sovereignty over the nations of the earth (Rev. 17:18) Israel is never characterized that way prior to the 2nd coming.

2. Babylon is drunk with the blood of the Saints. Jerusalem protects Christians sites and provides security for Christians touring the Land. Historically, it is Christianity that has been drunk on the blood of the Jews.

3. In Revelation 18:21, Babylon is destroyed fully once and for all. Jerusalem was destroyed but is being resotored and is prophesied to be the seat of the Messiah who will rule upon the throne of David. While Jerusalem is characterized as a harlot in Ezekiel 16, in vv. 60-62 Jerusalem is forgiven and restored. Babylon is offered no such restoration.

These three reasons alone demonstrate why Jerusalem cannot be the Babylon mentioned in the text of Revelation 17 and 18. There are more, but these will suffice for now.

[Guest shiloh357]

Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers

persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed

before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have

been now the betrayers and murderers:

Rev 18: 20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy

apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on

her.

Rev18: 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets,

and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the

earth.

The problem is that you assume that Old Testament prophets are being referred to by Revelation 18. For one thing you are trying to compare two different Scriptures that are not speaking to the same issue.

Stephen words were not a wholesale condemnation of Jersusalem, but of the evil leaders of Jersualem who continued to foment hatred for Jesus followers. Secondly, the Jews did not persectute Gentile believers and still don't. Their primary wrath was only reserved for Jewish believers and even that was short lived. Historically, it is the Church that has been the persecutor of the Jews, not the other way around.

Ezekiel 16

1 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.

35 Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD:

36 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;

37 Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.

38 And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.

You always cherry pick what you want from the Bible and ignore the rest. Read down a bit further:

Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant. Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant. And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD:

(Ezekiel 16:60-62)

God does not possess the contempt for Jerusalem that you do.

[Guest shiloh357]

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Once again, you only take part of what has been written. The rest of the passage says the following:

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

(Luke 21:25-27)

Jesus description of the armies surrounding Jerusalem is accompanied by a reference to His Second Coming which has not happened yet. Neither were the nations distressed with perplexity at signs in the luminaries, nor were their signs in the sun and moon and stars, in 70 A.D. It also cannot be said that the powers of heaven were shaken at that time.

[asap]

Yes Israel has more than 7 mountains. I am talking about Jerusalem.

Even the airlines in Israel knows that Jerusalem is built on 7 hills.

Are they racist too?

http://www.israirairlines.com/guide.asp?id...amp;menu_id=254

Holy Sites in Jerusalem

Throughout the history of Jerusalem, the Jewish, Christian and Muslim faiths have treasured the sacredness of the Holy Land and its Holy City Jerusalem. From the uniqueness of this City built on Seven Hills, each faith has flourished.

What a crock. That is based on the "Book of Legends," not upon the Scripture. It goes back to post-biblical midrashic literature that dates to just before the Medieval period. The "hills" are actually summits such as Scopious, Nob, a ridge between the Trytopean valley and the Kidron Valley and other places of similar ilk. They are not literally "hills." Jerusalem sits on Mt. Moriah, which is really more of a mountain range than a single mountain. Jerusalem is surrounded by ridges, summits and valleys, not separate "hills."

What a compassionate teacher you are!

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes Israel has more than 7 mountains. I am talking about Jerusalem.

Even the airlines in Israel knows that Jerusalem is built on 7 hills.

Are they racist too?

http://www.israirairlines.com/guide.asp?id...amp;menu_id=254

Holy Sites in Jerusalem

Throughout the history of Jerusalem, the Jewish, Christian and Muslim faiths have treasured the sacredness of the Holy Land and its Holy City Jerusalem. From the uniqueness of this City built on Seven Hills, each faith has flourished.

What a crock. That is based on the "Book of Legends," not upon the Scripture. It goes back to post-biblical midrashic literature that dates to just before the Medieval period. The "hills" are actually summits such as Scopious, Nob, a ridge between the Trytopean valley and the Kidron Valley and other places of similar ilk. They are not literally "hills." Jerusalem sits on Mt. Moriah, which is really more of a mountain range than a single mountain. Jerusalem is surrounded by ridges, summits and valleys, not separate "hills."

What a compassionate teacher you are!

I don't possess much patience for those who take every opportunity to disparage Israel. Like I said, I stand by everything I say.

[Guest shiloh357]

I have said nothing against Israel and I have mostly posted scripture. I am truly sorry that posting scripture scripture offends you so. Like I said before, I did not write it.

It is clear from your hack job of the Scriptures what you feel about Israel. You once asked whether or not modern Israel is part of the "stong delusion" mentioned in the NT>>>Link This is made worse by the fact that those who believe the strong delusion are damned and take pleasure in unrighteousness (2Thess. 2:12). In making that statement, you equate supporting modern Israel with believing a lie, and taking pleasure in unrighteousness. But no, we shouldn't see you as being critical of Israel, right???? Give me a break.

You have been a continuous antagonist to any support of Israel. And you have stood in agreement with those who were more openly and unfairly critical of Israel than you were.

Scripture does not offend me. It is your handling of Scirpture and your attempt to prove what you cleverly avoid saying outright that offends me. You won't openly commit to what you believe, so you find ways of expressing your contempt for Israel without really "saying" it. One of your early posts in January of 2005>>>Link is basically a cut and paste job like what you have presented here. You grab a passage that is critical of Israel and then try to apply to Babylon in Revelation. Anyone can string a bunch of verses together and make the Bible say whatever they want it to say.

No you don't say anything bad about Israel, you simply pick every passage of Scripture you can find that is derogatory about Israel and present them as if they are the last word on how God feels about Israel. You do that to counter those who believe in God's promises for Israel. You ignore the passages that speak of Israel's restoration in the last days, and the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel.

[Metropolitan]

Yes Israel has more than 7 mountains. I am talking about Jerusalem.

Even the airlines in Israel knows that Jerusalem is built on 7 hills.

Are they racist too?

http://www.israirairlines.com/guide.asp?id...amp;menu_id=254

Holy Sites in Jerusalem

Throughout the history of Jerusalem, the Jewish, Christian and Muslim faiths have treasured the sacredness of the Holy Land and its Holy City Jerusalem. From the uniqueness of this City built on Seven Hills, each faith has flourished.

What a crock. That is based on the "Book of Legends," not upon the Scripture. It goes back to post-biblical midrashic literature that dates to just before the Medieval period. The "hills" are actually summits such as Scopious, Nob, a ridge between the Trytopean valley and the Kidron Valley and other places of similar ilk. They are not literally "hills." Jerusalem sits on Mt. Moriah, which is really more of a mountain range than a single mountain. Jerusalem is surrounded by ridges, summits and valleys, not separate "hills."

What a compassionate teacher you are!

I don't possess much patience for those who take every opportunity to disparage Israel. Like I said, I stand by everything I say.

David, Im pretty new here, and so far I have seen some very responsible posts from a whole lot of worthy 'officials'...But some how, the tone of your posts in this particular thread has taken me aback..And more so when I see them responding to a womans post..A newbie like me may form an alternate impression about you, which I think is not right!

God Bless you bro!