Guest lovinghim4ever Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 All believers receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion. Yes they do, because without the Holy Spirit we would NEVER overcome anything. It is the Holy Spirit who leads us to Christ for salvation, and it is the Holy Spirit who leads us to victory for peace in this life. As far as speaking in tongues? Well, I believe Butero says it best in the following quote . . . The reason this debate keeps occuring is that people do not understand the difference between the gift of tongues, which only some receive and which requires an interpretation, and prayer tongues, that everyone receives when they receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. While the Bible never says everyone that is filled will speak in tongues, there is a clear pattern of that occuring throughout the book of Acts. It is also obvious that it is something that occurs after salvation because while on an evangelistic journey, the Apostles came upon believers and asked them if they had received the Holy Ghost since they believed. They said they hadn't even heard of the Holy Ghost but had only received John's baptism. They were filled after the Apostles prayed for them. There is no way I can show conclusively that all that are Baptised in the Holy Ghost speak in tongues, because there is no scripture that states it to be so, however for those who are open minded to the possibility and desire to know the truth, I challenge you to go through the book of Acts and read about the people that received. Notice the pattern that occurs. If you still come away believing that prayer tongues are only for a select few, fine. I don't expect all to agree on this matter, but personally, I do believe that every believer that receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. Amen! Excellent post Butero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzav_LaTzav Posted December 31, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 32 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 31, 2006 (edited) I used to belong to a church that believed in speaking in tongues as the only evidence of the receipt of the baptism of the H Spirit, but people did not speak in tongues there outside of in prayer in any service I attended. (Tongues, there, were never interpretted in my presence, although I was in that organization over 50 years.) Having been reared this way, I have spoken in tongues -- a very few times -- and only once did I truly believe it was genuine. That one time was toward the end of my tenure in that church. It was the pastor's last night in that church. Because the leadership in that church had lied about him to organizational authorities, spreading rumors without truth in them about him as well as rumors that were recreations of the truth with only small bits of truth retained, he had been removed from that pastorate by the headquarters church. That night, I did speak in tongues, and it was very uncomfortable. I didn't want to, and I resisted but finally gave in. After a few words, I clamped my mouth shut. I have not spoken in tongues since. I have turned that over and over in my mind, until one day about four years later, I was reading Isaiah 28. Then, I understood a little better . . . a little. I left that church a year and a half later. I was one of the latter ones to leave. While the pastor who was removed was still there, we averaged 220 on Sunday mornings. It took a little over a month after the pastor's removal for the Sunday morning attendance to drop to about 75. When I left, it was down to about 50. After I left, in about two year's time, it dropped to about 25, where I think it remains today, seven years later. I now attend a place of worship where tongues are neither denied nor practiced. Bluntly, I see more of G-d in the lives of the leaders and people where I now attend than I ever saw in the other church, in spite of their claims of being so holy. I am so unimpressed with the tongues movement, that claims that one must speak in tongues -- as well as those who claim one must fall backwards to the ground in order to experience G-d. Edited December 31, 2006 by Tzav_LaTzav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lovinghim4ever Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 I now attend a place of worship where tongues are neither denied nor practiced. Bluntly, I see more of G-d in the lives of the leaders and people where I now attend than I ever saw in the other church, in spite of their claims of being so holy. I am so unimpressed with the tongues movement, that claims that one must speak in tongues -- as well as those who claim one must fall backwards to the ground in order to experience G-d. I have a curious question for you. Why do some people type G-d? Why is the 'o' left out of God? Just curious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted December 31, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Are you talking about in Acts 4? Because those were the tongues of men, not tongues of angels, requiring no translation Edit: Whoops...I mean Acts 2 Prayer in tongues requires no translation either. It is worship. It is prayer--vertical. It is a gift of grace to be used at any time. The gift the upper room people received was the ministry gift...sometimes it is in an earthly language, speaking to those who need to hear from God--horizontal. The point is, that the Holy Spirit is not limited because there are a few hundred of His own in one place. In that case we are told: "If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God." 1 Cor. 14:28 because: "So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?" (v. 23) and "For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. " (v.33) Prayer does not need to be translated. We pray in tongues, in the Spirit...not prophesy with messages from God. Quietly praying to God in a corner in tongues iis not what I was talking about, though. I have seen congregations where there are more than fifty people practically YELLING in tongues. I find the scripture CLEARLY speaks against that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted December 31, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted December 31, 2006 I now attend a place of worship where tongues are neither denied nor practiced. Bluntly, I see more of G-d in the lives of the leaders and people where I now attend than I ever saw in the other church, in spite of their claims of being so holy. I am so unimpressed with the tongues movement, that claims that one must speak in tongues -- as well as those who claim one must fall backwards to the ground in order to experience G-d. I have a curious question for you. Why do some people type G-d? Why is the 'o' left out of God? Just curious! It's out of respect for His Holy Name. When Jews copied out scrolls, they would break their writing utensil after writing the Holy name of God, because it would never write a greater Name (they might do it still, for all I know). I think this is something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted December 31, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Are you talking about in Acts 4? Because those were the tongues of men, not tongues of angels, requiring no translation Edit: Whoops...I mean Acts 2 Prayer in tongues requires no translation either. It is worship. It is prayer--vertical. It is a gift of grace to be used at any time. The gift the upper room people received was the ministry gift...sometimes it is in an earthly language, speaking to those who need to hear from God--horizontal. The point is, that the Holy Spirit is not limited because there are a few hundred of His own in one place. In that case we are told: "If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God." 1 Cor. 14:28 because: "So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?" (v. 23) and "For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. " (v.33) Prayer does not need to be translated. We pray in tongues, in the Spirit...not prophesy with messages from God. Quietly praying to God in a corner in tongues iis not what I was talking about, though. I have seen congregations where there are more than fifty people practically YELLING in tongues. I find the scripture CLEARLY speaks against that. It talks of disorder. We certainly can have many, many people speaking in tongues in church, but it is all so wonderfully synchronized, all of us talking to God together, and all of us stopping at once. The Holy Spirit is the conductor of that kind of music! No one speaks over anyone else, or is one-upping anybody at any time. The Spirit of God is moving in unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted December 31, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Are you talking about in Acts 4? Because those were the tongues of men, not tongues of angels, requiring no translation Edit: Whoops...I mean Acts 2 Prayer in tongues requires no translation either. It is worship. It is prayer--vertical. It is a gift of grace to be used at any time. The gift the upper room people received was the ministry gift...sometimes it is in an earthly language, speaking to those who need to hear from God--horizontal. The point is, that the Holy Spirit is not limited because there are a few hundred of His own in one place. In that case we are told: "If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God." 1 Cor. 14:28 because: "So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?" (v. 23) and "For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. " (v.33) Prayer does not need to be translated. We pray in tongues, in the Spirit...not prophesy with messages from God. Quietly praying to God in a corner in tongues iis not what I was talking about, though. I have seen congregations where there are more than fifty people practically YELLING in tongues. I find the scripture CLEARLY speaks against that. It talks of disorder. We certainly can have many, many people speaking in tongues in curch, but it is all so wonderfully synchronized, all of us talking to God together, and all of us stopping at once. The Holy Spirit is the conductor of that kind of music! No one speaks over anyone else, or is one-upping anybody at any time. The Spirit of God is moving. I'll have to take your word on the orderliness of it...personally I've never seen that happen if there are more than three people speaking at once. If it actually IS orderly, good for your church...they seem to have found something rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted December 31, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Besides, sometimes we do yell! It's not us, but the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted December 31, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted December 31, 2006 I'm still interested in seeing scriptural backup for that sort of behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted December 31, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Didn't Jesus Himself yell? I should think that as Jesus communicated, so he will continue to communicate through us. Didn't Jesus weep and wail? Yes, and so do many who are exercising tongues. You know, all this emphasis on tongues is not what God would want. The Holy Spirit's anointing comes in many forms, and they are more conducive to building up the body than tongues is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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