stevehut Posted January 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Well, it is a gift that you receive. I had someone pray over me, I didn't doubt it and it wasn't long when I was in church during a prayer time, when I heard to men singing in the spirit (in tongues) and I told the Lord, I want that and let me tell you, it was the next time in church, the spirit of intercession (prayer) came upon me and I heard my spirit going 90 miles per hour, speaking in that unknown tongue, Very interesting. I did some research on this in the Bible recently. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit occurred twice in the Bible, in Acts 2 and Acts 10. In both cases, it came without warning. No one received it by asking for it or praying for it. In both cases, it was preceded by miracles. If the Bible is supposed to be our model, then how can anyone say that they received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit "on demand"? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted January 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted January 3, 2007 If as much attention were given to the fruits of holiness, righteousness and love as are given to gift of tongues, both real and false, the churches would be red hot with love and Godliness instead of the 'lukewarm' focus on minors and the reception of 'every wind of doctrine' blowing about today. Yup. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted January 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted January 3, 2007 When you believe, you can ask and God will give--it is His principle. Matthew 18:19-20 “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” Hey! It happens that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyHands Posted January 6, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 48 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2007 I used to belong to a church that believed in speaking in tongues as the only evidence of the receipt of the baptism of the H Spirit, but people did not speak in tongues there outside of in prayer in any service I attended. (Tongues, there, were never interpretted in my presence, although I was in that organization over 50 years.) Having been reared this way, I have spoken in tongues -- a very few times -- and only once did I truly believe it was genuine. That one time was toward the end of my tenure in that church. It was the pastor's last night in that church. Because the leadership in that church had lied about him to organizational authorities, spreading rumors without truth in them about him as well as rumors that were recreations of the truth with only small bits of truth retained, he had been removed from that pastorate by the headquarters church. That night, I did speak in tongues, and it was very uncomfortable. I didn't want to, and I resisted but finally gave in. After a few words, I clamped my mouth shut. I have not spoken in tongues since. I have turned that over and over in my mind, until one day about four years later, I was reading Isaiah 28. Then, I understood a little better . . . a little. I left that church a year and a half later. I was one of the latter ones to leave. While the pastor who was removed was still there, we averaged 220 on Sunday mornings. It took a little over a month after the pastor's removal for the Sunday morning attendance to drop to about 75. When I left, it was down to about 50. After I left, in about two year's time, it dropped to about 25, where I think it remains today, seven years later. I now attend a place of worship where tongues are neither denied nor practiced. Bluntly, I see more of G-d in the lives of the leaders and people where I now attend than I ever saw in the other church, in spite of their claims of being so holy. I am so unimpressed with the tongues movement, that claims that one must speak in tongues -- as well as those who claim one must fall backwards to the ground in order to experience G-d. Every complaint you had about the Church that spoke in tongues is actually evidence that the Gift was in operation in that Church. Look at Paul's criticism to the Corinthinan Church over their abuses of tongues. The gift was definitely real in the church, and they had all the same problems that lead many to believe that the tongues are not real. Paul was very careful to admonish them to practice love. I am pentecostal, so I can say this: Most pentecostals are a bunch of self conceited, egotistical, mean, people. However, None of that is evidence they do not have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. They are however sounding brass that usually do a lot more damage than good. I am not saying other denominations are not prideful, but pentecostals have more than their fair share of judgmental "super saints." WHOA! please..don't make such a broad statement like that. People who choose to worship at Pentecostal Church are individuals who are a WORK in PROGRESS just like anybody else. Don't Judge every book by one book cover. While I do attend a pentecostal church.. I am in by no ways pentecostal. I am Christian. Now I know that your post is not directed towards me in anyway...but any one who happens to attend a pentecostal church and reads your post, will feel slighted in some type of way. Maybe the pentecostals at your church are conceited, egotistical, and mean...which would say a WHOLE lot about the leader. Again.. I am in no place to presume anything, but that could be something to keep a watchful eye on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted January 6, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Then why have any titles to any offices? If you have a problem with the title of prophet or apostle, you should have a problem with the title of pastor, teacher, etc. ? No, my "problem" is not with words. As I have said before, I believe that any believer can "prophesy" or serve as a missionary. But God gave special authority and miraculous powers to those who held the office, and the "apostles" and "prophets" that I have met, do not display those characteristics. Does God perform miracles today? Sure he does. I have seen miraculous healings firsthand, in answer to fervent prayer from many people. But did one particular person possess the gift of healing there? No one in my church has claimed it. They only care that God brought about the healing. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted January 6, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I do not merely attend "a" pentecostal church. I have dealings with many pentecostal churches and denominations. Most of the churches have a large group that is so preoccupied with the gifts of the Spirit, they do not show love and concern to their fellow man. Yes, this is my concern as well. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted January 6, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted January 6, 2007 The fact you can make this claim makes me ask the question, have you even read the Bible through? You did a poor job of research. Acts 19:1-7 Sorry, I don't see where this passage says that anyone received the baptism of the holy spirit. Doesn't Acts 2 say there was a rushing wind and tongues of fire? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBob Posted January 6, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 109 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2007 All believers receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion. i agree - check out the WORD Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was now come, they were all together in one place. Act 2:2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them tongues parting asunder, like as of fire; and it sat upon each one of them. Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. You all can argue about the tongues bit - I happen to believe it and speak in tongues especially when I know not how to pray. BUT whether you do or do not has nothing to do with your salvation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted January 6, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted January 6, 2007 All believers receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion. i agree - check out the WORD Um, those were not new converts. Those were the 120 disciples in the upper room. A unique situation, methinks. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredD Posted January 7, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 5 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/07/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2007 All Christians receive the Holy Spirit the moment that they believe into Christ. Read John 14. Yes, exactly. They are not two separate situations. When the church was first established, it was often SEEN as two separate things, but it's because the church was being established. When people spoke in biblical tongues in the New Testament, those hearing them heard them in their own language. No interpreter was needed. This was another sign to show God's power. Plus, the entire New Testament had not been written yet obviously. Much of the Pauline Epistles penned by Paul were by direct revelation from God. Once the New Testament was written, nothing further was necessary. Everything that God wants us to know about Him in this life can be gleaned from His now-completed Word. Paul taught that the gift of tongues, even in his day, was the least of the gifts. I cannot find a purpose for it for today's church, though I know that there are plenty of pentecostals and charismatics who will disagree. I received Jesus as my savior at the age of 13 and was at that time baptized into His body by the Holy Spirit. I didn't miss a second part of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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