firehill Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 Do you believe in the Trinity? Because it seems your questioning in regards to this subject stems from a confusion over who, exactly, God is. Christ is the head of the church (1), meaning the Father and the Holy Spirit are also, because they are One in purpose. (2), (3) Christ is and was God before, during, and after His resurrection. While He was on earth He was both fully man and fully God. (1) "For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." Eph. 5:23 (emphasis mine) Your saying that Christ, the father and the Holy Spirit are the lamb and that this lamb is going to marry the church, the bride? Metaphors that are getting mixed. Referring to Christ as "the Lamb" indicates that He is the sacrificial lamb who died for the sins of the world. It doesn't mean He wasn't God and it doesn't mean He's not the Bridegroom. Methaphors are not getting mixed. What's your point? Are you saying that the bridegroom is also the father and the Holy Spirit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Do you believe in the Trinity? Because it seems your questioning in regards to this subject stems from a confusion over who, exactly, God is. Christ is the head of the church (1), meaning the Father and the Holy Spirit are also, because they are One in purpose. (2), (3) Christ is and was God before, during, and after His resurrection. While He was on earth He was both fully man and fully God. (1) "For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." Eph. 5:23 (emphasis mine) Your saying that Christ, the father and the Holy Spirit are the lamb and that this lamb is going to marry the church, the bride? Metaphors that are getting mixed. Referring to Christ as "the Lamb" indicates that He is the sacrificial lamb who died for the sins of the world. It doesn't mean He wasn't God and it doesn't mean He's not the Bridegroom. Methaphors are not getting mixed. What's your point? Are you saying that the bridegroom is also the father and the Holy Spirit? In a sense, yes. Christ said that He and the Father are One. He also expressed a unity of purpose with the Holy Spirit. One God, now and forever. That's the Trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 firehill:Are you saying that the bridegroom is also the father and the Holy Spirit? Iryssa:In a sense, yes. Christ said that He and the Father are One. He also expressed a unity of purpose with the Holy Spirit. One God, now and forever. That's the Trinity. How can the bridegroom 'in a sense' be the Trinity? How can the bridegroom 'in a sense' be the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit? The Father: Jesus said that his father was God. The Son: God said that he is His son in whom he is well pleased. In Christ dwelt the diety in full, bodily. He was fully God and fully human. Only Christ (Messiah, Deliverer, fully human and in whom dwelt the diety in full, bodily) died and resurrected. God our father did not die and resurrect because he is spirit and neither did the Holy Spirit die and resurrect because he too is spirit. Therefore the bridegroom cannot be the Trinity. God is our Father not our bridegroom. We're not going to unite as one with our Father in Heaven. God will always be our Father. Christ is our bridegroom and will always be our husband after the marriage feast of the lamb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I'd say that Jesus is the head. It say so somewhere in the Bible. That God made him it... Would you mean before or after His resurrection? I guess I should have said that the options are: a. God b. The Father c. Jesus the Christ before His resurrection d. Christ after His resurrection e. The Son f. The Holy Spirit Do you believe in the Trinity? Because it seems your questioning in regards to this subject stems from a confusion over who, exactly, God is. Christ is the head of the church (1), meaning the Father and the Holy Spirit are also, because they are One in purpose. (2), (3) Christ is and was God before, during, and after His resurrection. While He was on earth He was both fully man and fully God. (1) "For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." Eph. 5:23 (emphasis mine) Question for Iryssa: In 1 Co 11 where Paul says 'God is the head of Christ' he means that God is the head of the Trinity? Apparently I need to add an option: a. God b. The Father c. Jesus the Christ before His resurrection d. Christ after His resurrection e. The Son f. The Holy Spirit g. The Trinity Is your answer, g? I would say that God the Father is the head of the Trinity, yes...but they are in oneness with eachother. *sigh* this is so hard to describe in limited human language, and I don't have the gifts of greater men like C.S. Lewis, either. Anyway, I'll do my best. As Christ said "All that the Father has is mine." This shows their unity. Then He says "the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you." Showing again that they are of one purpose. The best way I can think of to describe it (And it is an imprefect description at best) is to look at a two-dimensional drawing of a circle. It has two sides: an inside and an outside. It cannot exist without both, but they are both different things. I tried to come up with a similar metaphor with three parts, but I couldn't. Anyway, that's the best I can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 firehill:Question for Iryssa: In 1 Co 11 where Paul says 'God is the head of Christ' he means that God is the head of the Trinity? Iryssa:I would say that God the Father is the head of the Trinity, God is Christ's father and our father also (we as believers are God's children, Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son). God is the head of Christ... and is also his Father. Iryssa:Christ is the head of the church..., meaning the Father and the Holy Spirit are also... How can the Trinity be the head of the church? The church is God's church, made up of God's children, aka, 'the church', 'Christ's body' . The Father: Jesus said that his father was God. The Son: God said that he is His son in whom he is well pleased. In Christ dwelt the diety in full, bodily. He was fully God and fully human. Only Christ (Messiah, Deliverer, fully human and in whom dwelt the diety in full, bodily) died and resurrected. God our father did not die and resurrect because he is spirit and neither did the Holy Spirit die and resurrect because he too is spirit. Therefore the Trinity cannot be the head of the church since the church is Christ's body which came out of him and for this reason the two shall become one .(Ephesians 5vv31-32) The church cannot be God's body for it did not come out of God's body for God is spirit not flesh. The church cannot be the Holy Spirit's body for it did not come out of the Spirit's body for it has not one. God is our Father as He is Christ's. He is not our bridegroom. Who is the head of God's children? I'll ask it this way: Who is the head of those who's father is God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted January 15, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Is this a trick question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 16, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 Is this a trick question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted January 16, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted January 16, 2007 firehill:Question for Iryssa: In 1 Co 11 where Paul says 'God is the head of Christ' he means that God is the head of the Trinity? Iryssa:I would say that God the Father is the head of the Trinity, God is Christ's father and our father also (we as believers are God's children, Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son). God is the head of Christ... and is also his Father. Iryssa:Christ is the head of the church..., meaning the Father and the Holy Spirit are also... How can the Trinity be the head of the church? The church is God's church, made up of God's children, aka, 'the church', 'Christ's body' . The Father: Jesus said that his father was God. The Son: God said that he is His son in whom he is well pleased. In Christ dwelt the diety in full, bodily. He was fully God and fully human. Only Christ (Messiah, Deliverer, fully human and in whom dwelt the diety in full, bodily) died and resurrected. God our father did not die and resurrect because he is spirit and neither did the Holy Spirit die and resurrect because he too is spirit. Therefore the Trinity cannot be the head of the church since the church is Christ's body which came out of him and for this reason the two shall become one .(Ephesians 5vv31-32) The church cannot be God's body for it did not come out of God's body for God is spirit not flesh. The church cannot be the Holy Spirit's body for it did not come out of the Spirit's body for it has not one. God is our Father as He is Christ's. He is not our bridegroom. Who is the head of God's children? I'll ask it this way: Who is the head of those who's father is God? Didn't I answer that already?? I thought I replied to that question in post #17. What else do you need explained? If you can, please ask your question in different words, because I'm starting to get the feeling that there's some sort of communications breakdown here...either I'm just not understanding the nature of your question or you're wording your question in a way that is not accurately representing what you want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheya joie Posted January 16, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2007 Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 16, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 Didn't I answer that already?? I thought I replied to that question in post #17. What else do you need explained? If you can, please ask your question in different words, because I'm starting to get the feeling that there's some sort of communications breakdown here...either I'm just not understanding the nature of your question or you're wording your question in a way that is not accurately representing what you want to know. You did and I replied explaining that the head of God's children couldn't be the Trinity. So I asked again. Anybody who has been reading the other threads on the Godhead and really know their bibles know that God and Christ are NOT the same person. Proof can be provided or go read the other threads. Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. Christ is in heaven sitting on the right hand of God. The Word became flesh. Christ is both fully God and human. Ofcourse there is differientation between God the Father and God the Son because of the incarnation... Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Christ is also a God. And there are many other scriptures backing up the fact that the Godhead is made of 3 separate entities and are all three Gods. By GOD The Son is refered to as O God because he is fully GOD NOT a God. See that as the verse says? To answer the question, we are God's children - Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. You didn't answer the question at all. The question is, who is the head of God's children? Ofcourse the intention of this thread is not to debate the deity of Christ but have you seen this verse? "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (NKJV, KJV, ASV). Or: "For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (NASB, RSV, NIV is similar). Now add that verse to 'the Word who was God became flesh' and you can make some sense out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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