The Great Global Warming Swindle

[Axxman]

I don't understand why it's a problem for some people to recognize that our presence here on this planet might be having an impact on the environment?

Honestly...for me its a problem because God created this world for us. Do you suppose we surprised God by being so advanced? Do you really believe God is on His throne wishing His creation was more resilient? Man cannot destroy the earth. Whatever happens to the Earth is part of God's design.

But let's forget about global warming, let's pretend that our pollution, our depletion of the worlds forests (which exchange CO2 for the Oxygen we need to breath) is a non-issue.

We are currently and will be more so in the future, depndant on oil and natural gas from the middle east. The air in some of our cities is dangerous to breath at certian times of the year. So it's in our best interest as a nation to quickly decrease our pollution and decrease our dependancey on foreign oil. Otherwise we have only one choice. Constant war with Billions of Muslems to ensure we get oil.

WE are the worlds great democracy and we should lead by example.

WE should be the first country to clean up our environment so we can breath better and grow healthy, plentiful crops.

WE should be the leader in alternative fuel technology.

WE should be the example of PEACE that makes the world want to come to Christianity.

WE should set the standard for the rest of the world.

If we do these things and it does nothing about global warming then the nay sayers will be right but at least we accomplished the things we need to for our own security. If we do these things and it slows down or stops glabal warming (because of other countries following our lead) then... BONUS!!

I would like to point out that if YOU want to try and accomplish these things...more power to ya. Sounds like a great plan, and if thats what you really believe God wants your focus on...then go for it. Where you and I differ is that I FIRMLY support your decision and freedom to do those things. You, on the other hand, want to force me to live out your desires at the peril of my own freedoms and decisions. I think you are making a HUGE error in thinking that you can somehow influence "global warming" by lowering human CO2 emissions from 1% to .5%. Mars has 0% human CO2 emissions...and as we all know its current trend is warming. However...if that 1% number is so daunting to you that you (and your eco-friends) wanna lower it...go for it. However, don't try to force us all to be what you are.

The only thing we have to lose by doing these things is... our children in constant wars over oil. People complain that it will cost businesses a lot of money to put the measures in place to pollute less. How much does a war cost in money? In Lives? How do we pay for wars? By raising taxes to pay for the war. Which this administration refuses to do. What's the bill so far for Iraq and Afghanistan? Where's that money going to come from? Loans from China? Nice.

So forget global warming and think of our future and our childrens future and our countries future. But most of all take action!

Ahhhh... there it is. You cannot seperate the liberal ideology from global warming. Do you really think that if we stop ALL need for oil, that we won't have wars? No you don't believe that. Chances are that we'll start fighting over water next, or nuclear power, or farmland...whatever things people need to fight over. Whatever the cause is...America usually fights on the side of freedom. We may not always have the best plan, or the best resources...but if we fight, it is in the name of freedom. That makes us better than just about anyone out there. The ONLY hope I have for my children in the future is that they will KNOW the love of Christ and that he will bless their lives ...no matter what the condition of the world, our government, our environment. God made us many promises...none of which had to do with living a cushy life on Earth. I simply don't care if my grand-children live in a post-apocalyptic world with a neon purple sky...as long as they know Christ. That is the legacy I wish to leave my descendants...not that I tried to make the world "greener."

So...I agree with you. Forget Global Warming and think of the future. We just disagree on whats important to our families in the future.

[Tubal-Cain]

Honestly...for me its a problem because God created this world for us. Do you suppose we surprised God by being so advanced? Do you really believe God is on His throne wishing His creation was more resilient? Man cannot destroy the earth. Whatever happens to the Earth is part of God's design.

Using this line of reasoning you might as well stop doing any good at all. You can just say that whatever happens is part of God's design.

The ONLY hope I have for my children in the future is that they will KNOW the love of Christ and that he will bless their lives ...no matter what the condition of the world, our government, our environment. God made us many promises...none of which had to do with living a cushy life on Earth. I simply don't care if my grand-children live in a post-apocalyptic world with a neon purple sky...as long as they know Christ. That is the legacy I wish to leave my descendants...not that I tried to make the world "greener."

It's too bad your children apparently won't be seeing Christ's love for humanity in your actions. Your tone comes off as you basically not caring that millions of people will suffer and die because of our neglect of the environment.

So...I agree with you. Forget Global Warming and think of the future. We just disagree on whats important to our families in the future.

I don't see any disagreement in wanting our children to be Christian. It's just that environmentalists want to provide a moral example for future generations while you seem content with being apathetic towards the environment.

[The Lorax]

Bravo Tubal-Cain and Hamburgers.

The "God created a world too perfect for me to mess up" argument is just negligence dressed up as piety. There's no reason the Earth can't be damaged by our actions. God gave humans dominion over it, after all. That entails a little responsibility, don't you think?

As for messing up the Earth, humans have enough nukes to destroy it ~6 times over. Do you think God will swat them out of the sky if we launch them at each other, Axxman?

Edited March 23, 2007 by The Lorax

[The Lorax]

This just in:

http://environment.newscientist.com/articl...line-news_rss20

Bush Administration Fudging Climate Science

[JustinM]

quote: balance "We are currently and will be more so in the future, depndant on oil and natural gas from the middle east. The air in some of our cities is dangerous to breath at certian times of the year. So it's in our best interest as a nation to quickly decrease our pollution and decrease our dependancey on foreign oil. Otherwise we have only one choice. Constant war with Billions of Muslems to ensure we get oil."

Now, if people used this argument for protecting the environment, we'd actually pay attention and respect that POV. But, to base the entire argument on global warming in which just as many people that believe in it, believe it is not happening, is just rediculous. You don't try to convince someone to agree with you by providing unproven data to support our presentation.

quote: tubal-cain " don't see any disagreement in wanting our children to be Christian. It's just that environmentalists want to provide a moral example for future generations while you seem content with being apathetic towards the environment."

Christians want to provide a moral example for future generations as well, but it seems we aren't allowed to do that.

The thing that Greenies and Christians disagree with is we are concerned with the human, spiritual condition and the greenies are concerned with the world condition.

It is our belief that one day God will restore the world to the perfect place He intended, all the damage and filth and since and disease and destruction caused by us will be wiped clean and the Earth made new. But, God will not restore our soul. That is left up to us to accept His generous gift of salvation, only by doing that can we also be restored. Right now, Christians do not believe the world belongs to us, it belongs to Satan. We will inherit the Earth one day, but right now, that's not in God's plan.

So greenies have their religion, Christians have theirs. If you want us to come to terms with our beliefs then you better start respecting ours and stop treating us like fools. Don't lecture us on morality, we were the ones that first defined it. (We as in God's people)

[Tubal-Cain]

Christians want to provide a moral example for future generations as well, but it seems we aren't allowed to do that.

How are you not allowed to do that? As a Christian I feel perfectly able to provide a moral example.

So greenies have their religion, Christians have theirs.

Christianity commands us to love everyone. One way to love everyone is to care for the environment because that is beneficial for men and animals. You seem to think that environmentalism and Christianity are opposing forces when, in fact, they are complementary forces.

If you want us to come to terms with our beliefs then you better start respecting ours and stop treating us like fools.

I have done nothing to intentionally disrespect you. Where do you think I have done so or treated you as a fool?

Don't lecture us on morality, we were the ones that first defined it. (We as in God's people)

Please explain how you can care for humanity in a loving fashion without caring for the environment?

[Axxman]

You all sound more like a bunch of secular humanists rather than Christians. Your self-important tones, socialistic tones show an unbelievable lack of faith in God, His creations, and His Word.

As a matter of fact, I do believe that if humans attempted to bypass Gods word and destroy the earth, God would swat nuclear missles out of the sky. I believe that such a futile attempt would annoy God and would NOT surprise Him at all.

We don't "do good" because we believe we have some innate power to change the world. We do whatever God calls us to. That is God's design. Thye secular humanists here believe more in their human ability to effect change and goodwill...than in God's power to effect whatever design he chooses. You get so caught up in your own worldly ideologies that you forget that it seems you have forgotten what is important.

Do you realize that someone actually said that I am not teaching Christs love to my children because I don't believe in global warming...lol. If that doesn't show ideology over theology...then I don't know what does.

Its not that I don't care about the future...its more that I am NOT worried about the future. I have absolute faith that God can handle WHATEVER you ALL POWERFUL humans throw at it. The Bible is pretty clear that we are not to worry about tommorrow because God will supply for us. You guys seem to be of the opinion that God will lose His ability to provide for future generations if we don't "act now" to preserve the Earth. That is secular humanism at its finest.

Guess what...we puny humans have just about ZERO ability to ruin Gods plan for this Earth, and ZERO influence on the outcome of God's plan for humanity. You guys are SO transparent in your ideology over biblical teaching. I have repeatedly said I support your right to believe what you believe, and to follow God's will in your life...that is a scripturally sound position. You guys on the other hand forsake my right to follow God's guidance and to live as He would have me...in favor of trying to force me to follow your liberal "earth is god" ideology and politik.

Please explain how you can care for humanity in a loving fashion without caring for the environment?

This is why Christians and environmentalism cannot co-exist. This is a elementary disconnect between scripture and ideology. You cannot care about humanity if you don't care for the environment has no basis in scripture, or the Christian life.

Environmentalism is nothing more than idolatry. Idolatry is condemned in the Bible through the First commandment. Pantheism is rampant in the liberal environmental agenda. Environmentalism is nothing more than a modern "Tower of Bable" in which men believe they can reach a utopian perfection here on Earth. There is almost NO CORRELATION between the modern environmental movement and Christianity.

[Axxman]

This seems to me to be one of those issues whose purpose is to keep liberals and conservatives at each others throats..a smokescreen. Divide and conquer... and Americans fall for these tactics over and over and over.

It goes like this..

Al Gore says we are causing climate change. Since he is a liberal and therefore evil he must be lying and there are evil purposes behing his liberal propaganda. I have heard this type of rhetoric over and over.

But then we have this from President Bush's 2007 State of the Union Address..

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20070123-2.html

America is on the verge of technological breakthroughs that will enable us to live our lives less dependent on oil. And these technologies will help us be better stewards of the environment, and they will help us to confront the serious challenge of global climate change. (Applause.)

Does this make President Bush an evil liberal as well?

No, it makes George Bush a wimp...like his daddy. The Bush Presidency has been plagued since the beginning by his lame attempts at appeasing liberals. I think Bush actually believed that he could be a "uniter." He never understood that the ® next to his name made him a hated man, no matter what he did. He still thinks that making concessions to a socialist party will make the world a better place.

[Tubal-Cain]

Do you realize that someone actually said that I am not teaching Christs love to my children because I don't believe in global warming...lol. If that doesn't show ideology over theology...then I don't know what does.

No, I meant that your apparent indifference to the well-being of future generations shows a lack of love. At least you have now said that you care but don't worry.

You guys seem to be of the opinion that God will lose His ability to provide for future generations if we don't "act now" to preserve the Earth.

No, I'm of the opinion that actions have consequences. Abusing the environment will lead to suffering and death and hence is incompatible with the kindness that Christianity demands. I am making no claims about God's power being threatened by human actions.

This is why Christians and environmentalism cannot co-exist. This is a elementary disconnect between scripture and ideology. You cannot care about humanity if you don't care for the environment has no basis in scripture, or the Christian life.

Christ says we are to love everyone, even our enemies. Rationally, we know that caring for the environment helps others and hence is a good action in the Christian life. What problems do you see in that reasoning?

Environmentalism is nothing more than idolatry. Idolatry is condemned in the Bible through the First commandment.

No one here has promoted idolatry in any form. Saying environmentalism is idolatry is as ridiculous as saying feeding the poor is idolatry.

Pantheism is rampant in the liberal environmental agenda.

No one here has promoted pantheism.

Environmentalism is nothing more than a modern "Tower of Bable" in which men believe they can reach a utopian perfection here on Earth.

No one here has expressed the belief that man can create perfection on earth. All I see is people calling for moral action and that part of moral action is caring for the environment.

Edited March 24, 2007 by Tubal-Cain

[jgarden]

Humans puts 6.3 billion tonnes of carbon emissions into atmosphere annually (2004)

Apassenger car consumes 581 gallons of gasoline,

- emits 77.1 pounds of hydrocarbons,

- emits 11,450 pounds of CO2,

- emits 575 pounds of CO,

- emits 38.2 pounds of nitrogen oxides.

288 million Americans produced greenhouse gas emissions approximately equivalent to those of 2.6 billion people in 151 poorer countries.

America and Australia are the only 2 modern industrial nations that have not ratified the Koyoto Accords

http://www.religioustolerance.org/tomek03.htm

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Much of our drinking water has been polluted and few people would object to having it "purified" before drinking.

Few would deny that water pollution is directly attributable to humans.

The atmosphere is also a finite resource and yet it has always been used as an open sewer.

As a finite resource, there has to be some limit as to how much pollution it can absorb before the it reaches a critical level.

At what point does the atmosphere, like polluted water, reach the point where we are forced to take responsibility and finally deal with the consequences of our actions?

Edited March 29, 2007 by jgarden