apothanein kerdos Posted March 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2007 Again, I'm not arguing courtesy, manners, or what the Christian thing to do is. I disagree with how they handled it. However, the law is the law...and no one is dealing with that. Presence, in your case it is fair. So long as all students are asked to move during such time and not congregate, no law is being violated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 to ME, the fact that the school was willing to accomodate them holding prayer meetings and offer them a room to do it in speaks volumes about the motivation of the students involved. their goal was more about wanting to get their own way rather than wanting to worship or give glory to God. unfortunately, who here is looking bad? God. and whose fault is that? the students who are unwilling to settle for a quiet place to hold prayer meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 ok AK, WHY do you have a problem with how it was handled? they were OFFERED a classroom. they were ASKED to not obstruct the ebb and flow. the punishment of being suspended was not for praying, it was for disobeying. what is an appropriate way of handling disobedience? or should i say willful disrespect of the staff's request, as well as of other students? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Presence Of The King Posted March 8, 2007 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 8 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/02/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2007 I agree with Lady C, and though the law says that we have the Freedom to congregate you know first amendment stuff I must say that the Christian thing to do would be to obey and go somewhere quieter. Praying is communication with GOD! That's important. He created us, he is the biggest thing in our lives. We could at least make some sanctity out of it. They should have showed love and heeded the words of their superiors. now we do not know all the factors. We only know what the media has told us. but based on what the media has told us it seems that the punishment was fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted March 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2007 ok AK, WHY do you have a problem with how it was handled? they were OFFERED a classroom. they were ASKED to not obstruct the ebb and flow. the punishment of being suspended was not for praying, it was for disobeying. what is an appropriate way of handling disobedience? or should i say willful disrespect of the staff's request, as well as of other students? It doesn't matter. The law forbids the original request. The original request of the school should be found unconstitutional if taken to court, therefore it is unjustified. It doesn't get much simpler than this people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 the law does NOT forbid anyone from making a request... that would be a consitituional violation of free speach, would it not? this world functions by people making requests and accommodations for one another. it's social curtesy as well as vital necessity in life. the school made a request and made an offer to accomodate them in an area where traffic would not be disrupted, and furthermore where the students could worship God without disruption from others. the simple fact that the students have not been willing to accept those accomodations indicates to me that worshipping God was NOT the primary goal of the students involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted March 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2007 the law does NOT forbid anyone from making a request... that would be a consitituional violation of free speach, would it not? No, it wouldn't be a violation of it. I can't believe I actually have to make it this simple: School = federal government Students = citizens The Constitution prevents the federal government from infringing on the citizens rights. Ergo, the school cannot stop these students from gathering together or praying in the commons area UNLESS they forbid all gatherings of students in that area. The school can take requests, but they cannot act on them unless they forbid the activity all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 AK you are way off base here. school = federal government.... schools have rules, like any other part of life. whether you are in a federal building or a courthouse or a school or anything else, there are guidelines to follow. schools restrict students right to free speach, freedom of expression, yada yada yada on a daily basis in order to prevent chaos. now the key issue here is not whether other students are allowed to be in the commons, but whether other groups are allowed to hold their activities in the commons. i'm betting that is not the case. however, IF the student math club, or the student scrapbook club, or the cheerleading squad, or other group were being allowed to conduct group activities in the commons during times when the flow of traffic would be obstructed, you'd have a point. but that doesn't appear to be the case, at least with the information we have. the school staff has a right to make requests and establish rules that will prevent obstruction of other students to classes. and they have a right to use disciplinary measures to enforce those rules. would you be complaining if the article was about a student being suspended for wearing a t-shirt that used profanity, advocated illicit drugs, or disparaged God? i doubt it. the real issue here is, what kind of glory were these students giving God? none. they were, in fact, being very poor ambassadors of Christ, and very poor witnesses of God. the school was within their legal rights. the students were causing a disruption in search of their 15 minutes of fame. and they succeeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted March 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2007 school = federal government.... schools have rules, like any other part of life. whether you are in a federal building or a courthouse or a school or anything else, there are guidelines to follow. schools restrict students right to free speach, freedom of expression, yada yada yada on a daily basis in order to prevent chaos. Again, you're missing the point. * The student group is not a club - it is a gathering of students * Because it is not a club, it is merely students gathering to do whatever * The school MUST now forbid all other students from gathering in the commons in a percieved group That is the simple point of the law. Would you like me to start quoting these decisions to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal-Cain Posted March 8, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1981 Share Posted March 8, 2007 The school MUST now forbid all other students from gathering in the commons in a percieved group What makes you think the school is applying a double standard in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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