Rousing, emotional start for war protest

[Tubal-Cain]

tmrfiles, you seem to think that Romans 14 applies to every government in world history. I find it much more logical to think that it refers to an ideal government. I'll go through your post to show you the problems that come to mind with your interpretation as I see it at least (please clarify if I got things wrong).

And God, in his infinite wisdom, knew that war would be necessary and is justified through His Word, because we live in a fallen world, and at this point in time, we have a satanic religion called islam that is trying to dominate the world and force conversions to their death cult with persecution and death to the infidels all over the world.

If God wants Christians to follow their government in all situations then the Iraq War can create quite a contradiction. On the one hand you will claim that American Christians should have supported the US army's fight against Saddam's troops. On the other hand you would have to claim that any Christians in Saddam's army would have to fight against the US army. How can you deal with this contradiction?

From previous discussions here, I am aware that you completely discard Romans 14 in the same manner that these apostate and Replacement Theology churches sponsoring this anti-war rally in the name of "Christian" throw out the OT and say it is no longer relevant.

Speaking of the OT, the stories in Daniel of Daniel and his companions disobeying the Babylonian laws comes to mind. In one case divine intervention saved Daniel's friends from the fiery furnace. Then there are the cases where kings of Israel and Judah are criticized for not following the Torah. Apparently kings and their kingdoms did not have God's approval. For Catholics, they have the books of Maccabees where the Jews fought and defeated their Greek overlords who profaned the temple and outlawed Judaism.

We can either stay the course in Iraq and win this war, or we can fight it here in America, which is sure to come if we cut and run as the peace pacifists and commies from the left would have us do.

1 - Military strength cannot establish a democratic government in Iraq.

2 - Regardless of what happens in Iraq there will always be a threat of terrorism on American soil.

3 - 58% of Americans are in favor of withdrawing are troops either immediately (21%) or within a year (37%). We're dealing with far more than "pacifists and commies."

And every other nation will be fighting it in their homeland also on a larger scale if our troops leave Iraq before the mission is accomplished because islam will see it as a victory for their cause.

Other nations are fighting terrorism in their homelands even though we're still in Iraq (e.g., the attacks in London and Madrid).

Now, if we did not have the evil of islam, the government of the USofA, with George W. Bush as our commander and chief and leader, and our allied governments would not have to execute wrath upon those evil islamics, now would we?

Even with Islamic terrorists we didn't have to invade Iraq. It was a war of choice, not necessity.

[RustyAngeL]

People who do things to dishearten our own soldiers in time of war, and to give courage and strength to the enemy, ARE TRAITORS AND SABOTEURS working against America.

I agree Leonard, and most of them are brainless too. They don't realize that if we don't fight the enemy there and pull out they will most surely follow us home to America.

[RustyAngeL]

People who do things to dishearten our own soldiers in time of war, and to give courage and strength to the enemy, ARE TRAITORS AND SABOTEURS working against America.

I agree Leonard, and most of them are brainless too. They don't realize that if we don't fight the enemy there and pull out they will most surely follow us home to America.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

People who do things to dishearten our own soldiers in time of war, and to give courage and strength to the enemy, ARE TRAITORS AND SABOTEURS working against America.

I agree Leonard, and most of them are brainless too. They don't realize that if we don't fight the enemy there and pull out they will most surely follow us home to America.

Right now we are occupying Iraq. We aren't fighting an Iraqi army, we are fighting insurgents. The insurgents are fighting American troops because we are occupying them. If we pulled out, the Iraqi insurgents won't "follow us to America" because the only reason they are fighting is because we are in their land.

Lots of people have good reasons to dislike this war. It has nothing to do with being anti-American, it has to do with distaste of violent conflict without that great a cause.

The irony, is that war protesters are considered to be working against America. What is more American than using our freedoms from this country to protest a government funded activity? You can't openly protest something like war in many other countries. Yet people are being called anti-american for using freedoms given to us by America

[Oh Hamburgers!]

I just think it's a sad day when "true Christians" advocate bloody conflict, while "non-christians" advocate peace.

[asap]

1Peter 2:9-24

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.

Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.

Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.

Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.

But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it?

But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.

To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

"He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth."

When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats.

Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

[Tubal-Cain]

I just think it's a sad day when "true Christians" advocate bloody conflict, while "non-christians" advocate peace.

I'm trying to find world-wide opinion polls of Christians regarding the Iraq War as I suspect this is mostly an American problem. While looking for such a poll I came across some other interesting articles.

According to this site the only Christian group to officially support the Iraq War in early 2003 (i.e., before the war started) was the Southern Baptist Convention. The Iraq War was opposed by the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, the Episcopal Church, the Greek Orthodox Church in America, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Quakers (American Friends Service Committee), the United Church of Christ, the United Methodist Church, and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

This article says that support for the Iraq War in America is strongest among non-black Protestants (55%). 77% of Jews oppose to the war in Iraq.

[Tubal-Cain]

I agree Leonard, and most of them are brainless too.

This poll puts to rest the notion that it is the "brainless" who oppose the war. Only 23% of people who had none of the three misconceptions examined about the Iraq War supported the war. On the other hand, 86% of those who had all three misconceptions support the war.

[Guest man]

If we pulled out, the Iraqi insurgents won't "follow us to America" because the only reason they are fighting is because we are in their land.

Are you really that naive?

[followerofjesus]

Thanks people for the wonderful wisdom & insight. As a true patriot w/ a honorable discharge it was very hard for me to accept & receive what people who loved me were sharing w/ me. Its comparable to accepting the Lords will in your life over your own. We must break the shell of the old man & become new. A true patriot will challenge corrupt leadership. We should not exchange our rights for security because we would deserve neither. Picture a nazi in a park at a family picnic (or cameras at every corner). There are people who are currently enlisted who cannot comment on this. It is our duty as former enlisted to seek the truth in every dark corner. Hamburger what you said rings true. We may not get all the answers in our lifetime but our forefathers who died perserving our freedom & way of life (constitution,bill of rights) should not die in vain (including our brothers in arms today). There is something terribly wrong when two war heroes Mcveigh, & Mohammed come back to kill their own. Is this conspiracy? Lets pray to God it is, if not the future is very dark.