Communism

[Smalcald]

But really communism is dead as a political idea, it is totally debunked. Even places that would claim to be communist such as the PRC are simply one party dictatorship which allows some market freedoms. No one seriously makes stirring pleas anymore about all people owning all property in common etc., even the communists, no one really believes it they have seen the results, and more importantly they have seen the tremendous benefits of utilizing free market principles. The debate is basically over on that front.

But how we do utilize government is another issue. Somebody like me who wants to see the government involved in some areas where it is needed and the market fails, is certainly not a communist, or simply wants the government to be responsive to the people and not to corporations, we are not communist or even socialist.

As far as the question goes, no you cannot be a Christian and be a communist as it is defined in its pure form. Communism and Marx specifically pointed out all religions as things to be removed and exterminated. If they could not do that, they should be controlled by the government. Atheism was the official state belief system under communism.

Now if we want to believe that people can own goods in common and live communally, yes you can believe that and be a Christian, and some people actually practice that in the United States in Christian communes. It was also practiced at some level by some of the congregations mentioned in scripture. But this is not political communism, which is about force. This is a lifestyle however that ironically can only exist within a country with private property rights and freedom.

[rtwo]

But really communism is dead as a political idea, it is totally debunked. Even places that would claim to be communist such as the PRC are simply one party dictatorship which allows some market freedoms. No one seriously makes stirring pleas anymore about all people owning all property in common etc., even the communists, no one really believes it they have seen the results, and more importantly they have seen the tremendous benefits of utilizing free market principles. The debate is basically over on that front.

But how we do utilize government is another issue. Somebody like me who wants to see the government involved in some areas where it is needed and the market fails, is certainly not a communist, or simply wants the government to be responsive to the people and not to corporations, we are not communist or even socialist.

As far as the question goes, no you cannot be a Christian and be a communist as it is defined in its pure form. Communism and Marx specifically pointed out all religions as things to be removed and exterminated. If they could not do that, they should be controlled by the government. Atheism was the official state belief system under communism.

Now if we want to believe that people can own goods in common and live communally, yes you can believe that and be a Christian, and some people actually practice that in the United States in Christian communes. It was also practiced at some level by some of the congregations mentioned in scripture. But this is not political communism, which is about force. This is a lifestyle however that ironically can only exist within a country with private property rights and freedom.

You're absolutely correct in your last statement, and I agree with that right 100% -- and I think it's great there are groups that do just that. However, I think your second paragraph (the one about government "involvement") is somewhat problematic. Government involvement in areas in which the market has involvement is, by definition, force: I have to pay taxes, and if those taxes are spent on something I don't think they should be, then by extension, I am being -forced- to pay for those things. Property rights and freedom are what this country is built on, and has succeeded on; government intervention, in most cases, limits both.

[Oh Hamburgers!]

I do get a little

[GeneV]

There are times........Oh never mind

[rtwo]

This Marx argument reminds me a great deal of the "Hitler wasn't such a bad guy" argument.

Evil is not this black-hat wearing, mustache-twisting, boy-it-feels-so-good-to-be-bad, easy-to-pigeonhole thing. As the saying goes, the road to Hell is paved with "good intentions." And if Hitler had died way earlier, he'd be remembered for being one of the greatest leaders Germany ever had. Too bad about that whole mass murder thing, I guess. What made Hitler and Marx (and Stalin) evil were not their (absurdly misguided) visions of utopian society, but the way in which they went about it.

I'll say it again: Freedom and communism are mutually exclusive. If there are communists (or socialists) who think it'd be a good idea to try it again, great. Just don't screw up my country to do it. Go somewhere else.

[Guest]

Dear Brother Oh Hamburgers!

I know you are eager to learn and you, sometimes, seem to put out statements on Worthy just to, maybe, provoke a reaction and stimulate a discussion, so you can learn important things schools did not teach.

Things like real world truths and, more importunately, what God has to say about the doings of the "Great Men" of earth.

My wife has a degree in Economics but she only studied the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services ; the transfer of wealth and power; the effect on the lives of the peoples these various Economic Philosophies had.

I, on the other hand, faced the guns of Marxism (USSR and Marxist Cuba) and I am only here to fellowship with you by the Grace of God.

I am so thankful to meet you down here on combat central, planet earth.

My thoughts mixed with words from the "great" man himself, Karl, and Words from The Master!

Economics was just a cover Marx and his cronies used for the intended destruction of the family unit and of the souls of men and woman and boys and girls worldwide.

Marx was a true believer in Evolution (a true Lamarckian).

He truly loved and preached death for death's sake.

All who truly follow Marx truly hate God and truly love death.

Marx was no friend of God or man.

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Proverbs 8:36

Karl Marx, Doctor Slavery

"As for slavery, there is no need for me to speak of its bad aspects. The only thing requiring explanation is the good side of slavery. I do not mean indirect slavery, the slavery of proletariat; I mean direct slavery, the slavery of the Blacks in Surinam, in Brazil, in the southern regions of North America. Direct slavery is as much the pivot upon which our present-day industrialism turns as are machinery, credit, etc.

[Smalcald]

But really communism is dead as a political idea, it is totally debunked. Even places that would claim to be communist such as the PRC are simply one party dictatorship which allows some market freedoms. No one seriously makes stirring pleas anymore about all people owning all property in common etc., even the communists, no one really believes it they have seen the results, and more importantly they have seen the tremendous benefits of utilizing free market principles. The debate is basically over on that front.

But how we do utilize government is another issue. Somebody like me who wants to see the government involved in some areas where it is needed and the market fails, is certainly not a communist, or simply wants the government to be responsive to the people and not to corporations, we are not communist or even socialist.

As far as the question goes, no you cannot be a Christian and be a communist as it is defined in its pure form. Communism and Marx specifically pointed out all religions as things to be removed and exterminated. If they could not do that, they should be controlled by the government. Atheism was the official state belief system under communism.

Now if we want to believe that people can own goods in common and live communally, yes you can believe that and be a Christian, and some people actually practice that in the United States in Christian communes. It was also practiced at some level by some of the congregations mentioned in scripture. But this is not political communism, which is about force. This is a lifestyle however that ironically can only exist within a country with private property rights and freedom.

You're absolutely correct in your last statement, and I agree with that right 100% -- and I think it's great there are groups that do just that. However, I think your second paragraph (the one about government "involvement") is somewhat problematic. Government involvement in areas in which the market has involvement is, by definition, force: I have to pay taxes, and if those taxes are spent on something I don't think they should be, then by extension, I am being -forced- to pay for those things. Property rights and freedom are what this country is built on, and has succeeded on; government intervention, in most cases, limits both.

True, but we do need a government to do things for us, and unfortunately people will not pay for that government voluntarily, thus we use a forced tax system.

The fact is the free market cannot totally solve all of society

[TheoMike]

Government controlled health care for a population of 10, 20, even 50 million people may not be a bad thing. It is easy to manage, things are generally localized, so the government can handle it. However, government controlled health care for 300 million people is a bit different. Most government organizations that apply to everyone in the US are often the hardest and most difficult programs to get through. In other words, a government health care system might actually do more damage than help anyone.

This is coming from someone that currently cannot afford health care...so I actually do have a risk when I state that I am not for a universal health care system.

Coming from a country with universal healthcare, I can tell you it is a bad thing. The system is Canada stinks. Having said that, since living here I find healthcare to be wonderful, yet so poorly managed it's a disaster. A combination of government controls and private enterprise cannot work, and the American healthcare system is proof.