Can your name be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life?

[exrockstar]

oppressing, attacking, whatever you want to call it. it's not the same thing as posession, i'm assuming everyone here understands the difference.

any idea why Peter was being oppressed or attacked by Satan? ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[Guest LadyC]

exrockstar,

peter was rebuking Jesus. would you do that? nah, i didn't think so

notice that Jesus said 'get thee behind ME, satan', not get behind peter... peter was arguing with the Lord... arguing against the will of God because he didn't like it. i don't blame him either! but Jesus was trying to point out to these dudes that this is what He had come for... to die for the sins of us all.

anyway, our battle is against what scripture refers to as the principalities and powers of darkness. peter wasn't faring too well in this area at that given moment i guess. or perhaps it is more accurate to say that this was Jesus's battle with the devil, who was using peter as a pawn spewing words that defied the will of God. however you look at it, Jesus took charge and put the devil in his place. he wasn't rebuking peter at that time. he did at a later time, but didn't call him satan.

[exrockstar]

exrockstar,

peter was rebuking Jesus. would you do that? nah, i didn't think so

notice that Jesus said 'get thee behind ME, satan', not get behind peter... peter was arguing with the Lord... arguing against the will of God because he didn't like it. i don't blame him either! but Jesus was trying to point out to these dudes that this is what He had come for... to die for the sins of us all.

anyway, our battle is against what scripture refers to as the principalities and powers of darkness. peter wasn't faring too well in this area at that given moment i guess. or perhaps it is more accurate to say that this was Jesus's battle with the devil, who was using peter as a pawn spewing words that defied the will of God. however you look at it, Jesus took charge and put the devil in his place. he wasn't rebuking peter at that time. he did at a later time, but didn't call him satan.

that what i thought it was. sowy, when you said "oppress or attack" i got confused.

I didnt know if you knew of something that i didnt know.

thnks ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[Guest LadyC]

LOL, well as much as i'd love to peer down my crooked little nose at you and laugh maniacally, i'm afraid i can't make the claim that i'm all-knowing... not yet anyway!

[exrockstar]

LOL, well as much as i'd love to peer down my crooked little nose at you and laugh maniacally, i'm afraid i can't make the claim that i'm all-knowing... not yet anyway!

... 3xR0c|<stAr

[HAZARD]

exrockstar,

peter was rebuking Jesus. would you do that? nah, i didn't think so

notice that Jesus said 'get thee behind ME, satan', not get behind peter... peter was arguing with the Lord... arguing against the will of God because he didn't like it. i don't blame him either! but Jesus was trying to point out to these dudes that this is what He had come for... to die for the sins of us all.

anyway, our battle is against what scripture refers to as the principalities and powers of darkness. peter wasn't faring too well in this area at that given moment i guess. or perhaps it is more accurate to say that this was Jesus's battle with the devil, who was using peter as a pawn spewing words that defied the will of God. however you look at it, Jesus took charge and put the devil in his place. he wasn't rebuking peter at that time. he did at a later time, but didn't call him satan.

Dear "LadyC,"

I Concur!

Haz.

[Guest]

Rowdy Jesus Kids!

[exrockstar]

the flip to this coin is that if Judas would of not turned Christ in then Christ would of not died for our sins.

Judas' betrayal was something mankind benefited from.

We call Judas evil but we say that now that we're saved.

it's like something good came out of something evil.

eh...it's just a thought so im not defending nor condeming Judas. im just thinking outloud.

Your characterization of Judas has no Scriptural support and, as such, needs to be carefully explored by you, preferrably not in a public forum. The "Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot", a spurious pseudogospel which purports to see the mission of Jesus from the viewpoint of Judas, is a good example of what can be produced with thinking not rooted in Scripture. This spurious gospel caused many a Christian to begin evaluating their Christian life from a viewpoint other than the viewpoint God expresses in Scripture. In the past, this gospel has done great harm to the body of Christ by introducing doctrine that seems to come from God but does not.

As far as the relative value of Judas to the salvation of man is concerned, you are beginning to give him more credit than he deserves. Whether Judas betrayed Jesus or not, would not have stopped the Jewish leaders from carrying out their diabolical plans for the death of Jesus. To follow your reasoning, Judas was the key to the salvation plan, for if he did not betray Jesus, Jesus would not have been killed. It is this line of reasoning you need to keep close to your chest because it introduces the possibility of a doctrinal point being developed around the role of Judas in the salvation of man. Actually Scripture shows that Jesus is the pivotal point upon which our salvation depends, not Judas; which is the logical path you are now following.

It is good to explore various paths that any point in Scripture may reveal (such as the importance of Judas in the salvation of man) but these paths must be explored under the leadership of the Holy Spirit and upheld by Scripture. If both of these conditions are not met, then the path should be abandoned as it may well be a deceptive move by Satan in his attempt to introduce false doctrine into the belief system of born-again believers in Jesus. Any exploration of paths not directly upheld by Scripture must be done with the utmost care and only by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I applaud your attempts to dig deeper into God's Word to see what is there, but please do it with the utmost care lest Satan gain a toehold in his unrelenting desire to introduce his lies to replace God's truth on our lives.

did a little research through my reference books on the Judas incident when Christ called him "friend."

Judas was never saved if i've done my homework on the greek correctly.

good findings

[HAZARD]

the flip to this coin is that if Judas would of not turned Christ in then Christ would of not died for our sins.

Judas' betrayal was something mankind benefited from.

We call Judas evil but we say that now that we're saved.

it's like something good came out of something evil.

eh...it's just a thought so im not defending nor condeming Judas. im just thinking outloud.

Your characterization of Judas has no Scriptural support and, as such, needs to be carefully explored by you, preferrably not in a public forum. The "Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot", a spurious pseudogospel which purports to see the mission of Jesus from the viewpoint of Judas, is a good example of what can be produced with thinking not rooted in Scripture. This spurious gospel caused many a Christian to begin evaluating their Christian life from a viewpoint other than the viewpoint God expresses in Scripture. In the past, this gospel has done great harm to the body of Christ by introducing doctrine that seems to come from God but does not.

As far as the relative value of Judas to the salvation of man is concerned, you are beginning to give him more credit than he deserves. Whether Judas betrayed Jesus or not, would not have stopped the Jewish leaders from carrying out their diabolical plans for the death of Jesus. To follow your reasoning, Judas was the key to the salvation plan, for if he did not betray Jesus, Jesus would not have been killed. It is this line of reasoning you need to keep close to your chest because it introduces the possibility of a doctrinal point being developed around the role of Judas in the salvation of man. Actually Scripture shows that Jesus is the pivotal point upon which our salvation depends, not Judas; which is the logical path you are now following.

It is good to explore various paths that any point in Scripture may reveal (such as the importance of Judas in the salvation of man) but these paths must be explored under the leadership of the Holy Spirit and upheld by Scripture. If both of these conditions are not met, then the path should be abandoned as it may well be a deceptive move by Satan in his attempt to introduce false doctrine into the belief system of born-again believers in Jesus. Any exploration of paths not directly upheld by Scripture must be done with the utmost care and only by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I applaud your attempts to dig deeper into God's Word to see what is there, but please do it with the utmost care lest Satan gain a toehold in his unrelenting desire to introduce his lies to replace God's truth on our lives.

did a little research through my reference books on the Judas incident when Christ called him "friend."

Judas was never saved if i've done my homework on the greek correctly.

good findings

Human beings can torture Scripture, the Greek, and Hebrew language to confess anything they desire. In simple language; If God created a human being who had no hope of ever being saved, then God can be accused of being the author of sin and death, as SATAN accuses Him of! If men are used by God, who knows their disposition and their nature, and even their weaknesses, to further His plan, and not give them the opportunity to repent as PETER DID REPENT WHEN HE CURSED GOD AND DENIED GOD THREE TIMES, then people can as free moral agents believe what they so desire.

For example; What if Judas had repented as soon as immediately he kissed Jesus? "Jesus, what came over me? Satan had me in his power! I repent of my sin in betraying you! Would Jesus have said this. Judas, old friend, no matter what you say, you never were saved and never will be saved. You were created by me to be doomed. I am using you to further my and my Fathers plan to save all other sinners EXCEPT YOU! Sorry, but thats the way it is. We knew you would suffer for all eternity in Hell, and we dont care, and even if we did WE COULD NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS????? but many other sinners have been saved because you betrayed me and through your prophisied betrayal I was able to die thereby saved the majority of men IF THEY REPENT WHICH YOU Just DID, BUT YOU WERE NEVER SAVED AND NEVER WILL BE EVEN THOUGH YOU DID REPENT. bad luck old friend. Your the bunny! We chose you and created you to be the fall guy, and not me?????????

Need I say any more, or are most sane people able to believe God the Father and His Son Jesus would be capable of something like this??????

Some will say, Judas was chosen and created to betray Jesus. God knew Judas would fall to temptation and betray Jesus, and God left Judas a way out, just as He has given every human being that sins a way out, and that is to repent of their sins. Judas is and was no exception.

Only a tyrant would use a human being like this, and God is not a tyrant and God would never let any human being die without an opportunity to repent. Judas was a saved man, He was chosen by God to be God's representative on the Earth at that time, and Judas, as the Scriptures state, "By Transgression fell." The only mistake Judas made was that he did not repent as Peter and the other apostles did after denying Christ. Judas was sorry that he betrayed Jesus, but he brooded over his sin and allowed Satan to convince hiself to commit suicide rather than repent of what he did.

AS I SAID, IF GOD CREATED JUDAS TO BE DAMNED IN ETERNAL HELL-FIRE WITHOUT ANY CHANCE TO REPENT OF HIS SIN AS EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING EVER CREATED ARE ABLE TO REPENT OF THEIR SINS , THEN GOD CAN BE ACCUSED OF BEING THE AUTHOR OF SIN AND DEATH AS SATAN ACCUSES GOD OF BEING.

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO TWIST THESE SCRIPTURES TO MEAN ANY OTHER THING THAN WHAT THEY PLAINLY SAY.

The Holy Spirit through Luke records for us that JUDAS "BY TRANSGRESSION FELL" (Acts 1:15-25). Judas not only had a moral fall but "sin" caused it. Judas was not always a "devil" and a "thief." He became both after he had been saved for quite some time. Judas's weakness was the love of money and this caused his fall (John 12:6; Luke 22:5; Matt. 26:14-16). If he had refused to be treasurer of the first Christian disciples and had told them that money was his weakness, he would have been better off. Judas had seen Jesus escape the mob many times and he had no doubt the Lord would escape again and he would be thirty pieces better off.

It was not until the end of Christs ministry that Judas began to pilfer and to grow cold in his love of Christ. And it was not untill the last supper that the devil entered into his mind and became united in the same crime. Two days before the passover the devil put it into the heart of Judas to go top Christs enemies and betray Him. (Matt. 26:1-5, 14-16; John 13:2). It was at this time he openly broke away from christ AND SAUGHT THE OPPORTUNITY TO BETRAY HIM. Judas was sorry for his betrayal (Matt. 27:3-5), and he could have been forgiven as Peter was when he cursed God and denied Christ and fled like a coward at his test. But being of the disposition to do so Judas brooded over his sin and eventually yielded to satan to commit suicide. Judas then is a specific example of a New Testament man who was once saved and in God's favour and grace, but who lost this favour and went to Hell because of sin (Matt. 25:24 Acts 1:16-25).

Its this simple to understand. One cannot loose something we do not have! Jesus testified that to EVERY ONE [including Judas] the Father had given Him, He had given ETERNAL LIFE (John 17:2).

To deny Judas was once a saved man who lost his salvation is to deny Scripture and also deny Jesus Christs own statemens regarding Judas. Jesus also acknowledged to the Father that of those whom the Father had given Him Judas was the only one whom HE HAD LOST. Jesus Christ could not have LOST JUDAS HAD JUDAS NOT BEEN SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE.! Judas had eternal life as much as the other apostles including Peter wo also denied Christ but he bacame "lost" and "by transgression fell" (Acts 1:25).

[exrockstar]

Human beings can torture Scripture, the Greek, and Hebrew language to confess anything they desire. In simple language; If God created a human being who had no hope of ever being saved, then God can be accused of being the author of sin and death, as SATAN accuses Him of! If men are used by God, who knows their disposition and their nature, and even their weaknesses, to further His plan, and not give them the opportunity to repent as PETER DID REPENT WHEN HE CURSED GOD AND DENIED GOD THREE TIMES, then people can as free moral agents believe what they so desire.

For example; What if Judas had repented as soon as immediately he kissed Jesus? "Jesus, what came over me? Satan had me in his power! I repent of my sin in betraying you! Would Jesus have said this. Judas, old friend, no matter what you say, you never were saved and never will be saved. You were created by me to be doomed. I am using you to further my and my Fathers plan to save all other sinners EXCEPT YOU! Sorry, but thats the way it is. We knew you would suffer for all eternity in Hell, and we dont care, and even if we did WE COULD NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS????? but many other sinners have been saved because you betrayed me and through your prophisied betrayal I was able to die thereby saved the majority of men IF THEY REPENT WHICH YOU Just DID, BUT YOU WERE NEVER SAVED AND NEVER WILL BE EVEN THOUGH YOU DID REPENT. bad luck old friend. Your the bunny! We chose you and created you to be the fall guy, and not me?????????

Need I say any more, or are most sane people able to believe God the Father and His Son Jesus would be capable of something like this??????

Some will say, Judas was chosen and created to betray Jesus. God knew Judas would fall to temptation and betray Jesus, and God left Judas a way out, just as He has given every human being that sins a way out, and that is to repent of their sins. Judas is and was no exception.

Only a tyrant would use a human being like this, and God is not a tyrant and God would never let any human being die without an opportunity to repent. Judas was a saved man, He was chosen by God to be God's representative on the Earth at that time, and Judas, as the Scriptures state, "By Transgression fell." The only mistake Judas made was that he did not repent as Peter and the other apostles did after denying Christ. Judas was sorry that he betrayed Jesus, but he brooded over his sin and allowed Satan to convince hiself to commit suicide rather than repent of what he did.

AS I SAID, IF GOD CREATED JUDAS TO BE DAMNED IN ETERNAL HELL-FIRE WITHOUT ANY CHANCE TO REPENT OF HIS SIN AS EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING EVER CREATED ARE ABLE TO REPENT OF THEIR SINS , THEN GOD CAN BE ACCUSED OF BEING THE AUTHOR OF SIN AND DEATH AS SATAN ACCUSES GOD OF BEING.

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO TWIST THESE SCRIPTURES TO MEAN ANY OTHER THING THAN WHAT THEY PLAINLY SAY.

The Holy Spirit through Luke records for us that JUDAS "BY TRANSGRESSION FELL" (Acts 1:15-25). Judas not only had a moral fall but "sin" caused it. Judas was not always a "devil" and a "thief." He became both after he had been saved for quite some time. Judas's weakness was the love of money and this caused his fall (John 12:6; Luke 22:5; Matt. 26:14-16). If he had refused to be treasurer of the first Christian disciples and had told them that money was his weakness, he would have been better off. Judas had seen Jesus escape the mob many times and he had no doubt the Lord would escape again and he would be thirty pieces better off.

It was not until the end of Christs ministry that Judas began to pilfer and to grow cold in his love of Christ. And it was not untill the last supper that the devil entered into his mind and became united in the same crime. Two days before the passover the devil put it into the heart of Judas to go top Christs enemies and betray Him. (Matt. 26:1-5, 14-16; John 13:2). It was at this time he openly broke away from christ AND SAUGHT THE OPPORTUNITY TO BETRAY HIM. Judas was sorry for his betrayal (Matt. 27:3-5), and he could have been forgiven as Peter was when he cursed God and denied Christ and fled like a coward at his test. But being of the disposition to do so Judas brooded over his sin and eventually yielded to satan to commit suicide. Judas then is a specific example of a New Testament man who was once saved and in God's favour and grace, but who lost this favour and went to Hell because of sin (Matt. 25:24 Acts 1:16-25).

Its this simple to understand. One cannot loose something we do not have! Jesus testified that to EVERY ONE [including Judas] the Father had given Him, He had given ETERNAL LIFE (John 17:2).

To deny Judas was once a saved man who lost his salvation is to deny Scripture and also deny Jesus Christs own statemens regarding Judas. Jesus also acknowledged to the Father that of those whom the Father had given Him Judas was the only one whom HE HAD LOST. Jesus Christ could not have LOST JUDAS HAD JUDAS NOT BEEN SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE.! Judas had eternal life as much as the other apostles including Peter wo also denied Christ but he bacame "lost" and "by transgression fell" (Acts 1:25).

I believe in once saved always saved so im not saying Judas lost salvation. im saying he never had it.