Phil.2:12 Posted May 23, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 161 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/13/1934 Author Share Posted May 23, 2007 Judas then is a specific example of a New Testament man who was once saved ... Neither Judas nor any of the other disciples were saved while Jesus walked among them prior to the Cross. For them to have been saved, Jesus would have had to pay their sin debt and this could not occur until His blood was shed for the sins of mankind. The thief on the cross is a good example. Jesus did not say that the thief would be with Him in heaven, but rather that he would be with Jesus in paradise by the end of the day. ("Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43). Also, Jesus told His disciples "Have I not chosed you twelve and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray Him, being one of the twelve" (John 6:70-71). Jesus knew when He chose Judas that He was essentially choosing a devil, meaning that Judas only looked the part of being a true disciple, but was never one in fact. Judas deceived everyone around him and apparently is still deceiving believers today, such was the deception of Satan concerning Judas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 23, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2007 Judas then is a specific example of a New Testament man who was once saved ... Neither Judas nor any of the other disciples were saved while Jesus walked among them prior to the Cross. For them to have been saved, Jesus would have had to pay their sin debt and this could not occur until His blood was shed for the sins of mankind. The thief on the cross is a good example. Jesus did not say that the thief would be with Him in heaven, but rather that he would be with Jesus in paradise by the end of the day. ("Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43). Also, Jesus told His disciples "Have I not chosed you twelve and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray Him, being one of the twelve" (John 6:70-71). Jesus knew when He chose Judas that He was essentially choosing a devil, meaning that Judas only looked the part of being a true disciple, but was never one in fact. Judas deceived everyone around him and apparently is still deceiving believers today, such was the deception of Satan concerning Judas. interesting. good point. ive always found the apostles fascinating. they were hand picked, nevertheless they showed their human imperfections. we have fear, greed, confusion, struggle etc. and many other things that make us human. these qualities are displayed through them in scripture. Jesus Christ had to take in account these imperfections. the flip to this coin is that if Judas would of not turned Christ in then Christ would of not died for our sins. Judas' betrayal was something mankind benefited from. We call Judas evil but we say that now that we're saved. it's like something good came out of something evil. eh...it's just a thought so im not defending nor condeming Judas. im just thinking outloud. i have a little thing that I have stored in the back of my mind that i will explore one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc49 Posted May 23, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 498 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1949 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I have to disagree. The context of the Old Testament verses is under the old covanent, where you had to sacrifice to atone for your sins. No sacrifice, no forgivnees. (My assumption is that when you sacrified, you acknowledged your sin. If you didn't, than you are spitting in God's face and spurning Him). However, Jesus came and made a new covanent. John 10:28-30 reads, "(28)I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, (29) for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil.2:12 Posted May 24, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 161 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/13/1934 Author Share Posted May 24, 2007 the flip to this coin is that if Judas would of not turned Christ in then Christ would of not died for our sins. Judas' betrayal was something mankind benefited from. We call Judas evil but we say that now that we're saved. it's like something good came out of something evil. eh...it's just a thought so im not defending nor condeming Judas. im just thinking outloud. Your characterization of Judas has no Scriptural support and, as such, needs to be carefully explored by you, preferrably not in a public forum. The "Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot", a spurious pseudogospel which purports to see the mission of Jesus from the viewpoint of Judas, is a good example of what can be produced with thinking not rooted in Scripture. This spurious gospel caused many a Christian to begin evaluating their Christian life from a viewpoint other than the viewpoint God expresses in Scripture. In the past, this gospel has done great harm to the body of Christ by introducing doctrine that seems to come from God but does not. As far as the relative value of Judas to the salvation of man is concerned, you are beginning to give him more credit than he deserves. Whether Judas betrayed Jesus or not, would not have stopped the Jewish leaders from carrying out their diabolical plans for the death of Jesus. To follow your reasoning, Judas was the key to the salvation plan, for if he did not betray Jesus, Jesus would not have been killed. It is this line of reasoning you need to keep close to your chest because it introduces the possibility of a doctrinal point being developed around the role of Judas in the salvation of man. Actually Scripture shows that Jesus is the pivotal point upon which our salvation depends, not Judas; which is the logical path you are now following. It is good to explore various paths that any point in Scripture may reveal (such as the importance of Judas in the salvation of man) but these paths must be explored under the leadership of the Holy Spirit and upheld by Scripture. If both of these conditions are not met, then the path should be abandoned as it may well be a deceptive move by Satan in his attempt to introduce false doctrine into the belief system of born-again believers in Jesus. Any exploration of paths not directly upheld by Scripture must be done with the utmost care and only by the leading of the Holy Spirit. I applaud your attempts to dig deeper into God's Word to see what is there, but please do it with the utmost care lest Satan gain a toehold in his unrelenting desire to introduce his lies to replace God's truth on our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2007 Well, i tend to walk the edge. i never got into the "hallelujah praise and glory! feed me milk" role. I am at a very good position in my walk where I can handle a mature conversation. Didn't Jesus call Peter "Satan?" back in Matthew 16:23. aw yes He did? So was Peter "Satan?" Religious people don't think outside the box. They are comfortable singing and praising, holding hands, and stomping their feet. I think outside the box so maybe youre right I should keep thoughts to myself before someone religious loses focus with the things Im saying. thanks ... 3xR0c|<stAr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." 1 Corinthians 2:2 I think outside the box so maybe you're right I should keep thoughts to myself before someone religious loses focus with the things I'm saying. You Are Loved Brother. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.John 13:34-35 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 Love, Your Brother Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2007 thanks Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 i don't think Jesus called PETER satan, but was addressing the demon that was oppressing peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 25, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2007 i don't think Jesus called PETER satan, but was addressing the demon that was oppressing peter. "oppressing Peter?" oh my. ... 3xR0c|<stAr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 oppressing, attacking, whatever you want to call it. it's not the same thing as posession, i'm assuming everyone here understands the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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