jc49 Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 498 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1949 Share Posted May 21, 2007 how do you do that? how do you know you did? you stop going to church? you go to a club? youre not nice anymore? you stop praying? im curious ... 3xR0c|<stAr Going to church......well, once you are a believer in Christ you are "one"member of the Body(the church,or the assembly of "the called out ones"...I mean Christ calls OUT of the World INTO His Kingdom,from death to life,from darkness into light,OUT of the Kosmos of satan into His Son Kingdom of LOVE and LIGHT) then as a believer you meet other believers to pray,to study the Word,to receive teaching and correction,to give Glory to God,to share His love and Word with fellow believers,to give,to receive,to share etc...so God gives us the freedom to fellowship together with other brothers and sisters,so going to church doesnt determine your salvation...you go and meet with other believers BECAUSE you are saved...or may be to get saved if one is not saved by hearing THE GOSPEL which is THE POWER OF GOD to save sinners like we were BEFORE receiving,confessing JESUS CHRIST as GOD,SAVIOUR and LORD,the ONLY WAY to THE FATHER.....lets put it like that...PERFORMANCE,even GOOD PERFORMANCE DOESNT SAVE US...JESUS SAVES...IT IS A GIFT....I mean costed GOD a lot,HIS SON LIFE,so it is a COSTLY GIFT,but to you and me and everyone else is a FREE GIFT from THE FATHER and SON and HOLY GHOST,glory to GOD then.....now,a gift can be received and so becomes YOURS once and for all,or can be rejected or not accepted and then you dont have it...stays there at your disposal...you either take it or refuse it....GOD OFFERS FREELY...IN LOVE,IN GRACE...you receive BY FAITH and if you do YOU ARE SAVED.....FOR EVER FOR EVER and EVER..... Now once you are saved you realize as I did and everybody else did too,that TO WALK with CHRIST DAILY is something TO LEARN and we still come short in many many ways......so we choose to submit to GOD and HIS WORD D A I L Y,moment by moment because we have 2 natures in us,the OLD ADAMIC NATURE which is LOST and CORRUPT and CANNOT BE REFORMED in fact GOD NAILED IT TO THE CROSS...and THE NEW NATURE,from GODs SON,JESUS,given it to us by THE GIFT of THE HOLY SPIRITand we find out that there is a WAR a WARFARE between THE FLESH (OLD NATURE) and THE SPIRIT ( the NEW NATURE) and by yelding to GOD BY FAITH we learn to walk with HIM,we learn to talk to HIM(prayer,supplication,intercession,etrc) and we learn to HEAR from HIM ,studyimg,reading meditating HIS WORD,listening to THE HOLY SPIRIT to HIS VOICE,HIS PROMPTING etc...and so we begin a journey towards GOD...but it is a process,takes time,as much GO has alloted to each one of us SOVEREIGNLY and so while YOU CANNOT LOSE SALVATION if you DONT WALK A CLOSE WALK with GOD the flesh will rule you and make your life a misery.... BUT......IF YOU WILLFULLY TURN YOUR BACK TO GOD and YOU DENY CHRIST and REJECT HIM ,well,why would like to go to heaven and spend eternity with HIM and the rest of believers and the holy angels if you practically DONT WANT JESUS NOW? IF WE CHOOSE NOT TO HAVE CHRIST RULE US...well,GOD who is GOOD and mercifully will respect your decision abd allow to go YOUR WAY,which guaranteed will lead you to HELL and eternal damnation.... Now I havent used a verse from the Bible but concepts that are in the bible clearly and this answer is not directed directly to YOU to judge you or point my finger to you dear brother or sister whoever you are,be blessed,I want to pray that YOU ARE SAVED BY TRUSTING JESUS and ADD NOTHING....and if you are not,well GET SAVED NOW,dont procrastinate because it could be to late then.... so turn to JESUS and ASK HIM to SAVE YOU NOW and once you RECEIVE BY FAITH HE IS FAITHFUL and HE WILL TAKE YOU TO HEAVEN..and will teach you and me to walk with HIM and even if we are weak and wobbly HE IS STRONG on our behalf HE WINS ALL THE TIME ,we are losers by nature( even if we are succeessfull in the world) JESUS IS THE WINNER...so we can RELY,TRUST,CONFIDE in HIM......IT IS VERY OK God bless us,bic Roberto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 no, exrockstar, the context of those scriptures is not talking about those who have some abstract knowledge of God's existence, it is talking about those who KNEW Him and then chose to know Him no longer. context context context... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methinkshe Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 679 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/02/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2007 This is a thorny issue and I know many beloved brothers and sisters who disagree. I have to say that I am of the OSAS persuasion. The following Bible Studies offer an excellent study of the subject and come down firmly in the OSAS camp. Eternal Security Parts 1 and 2. BBS Series 1 : 9c and 10c available from CCF Tapes Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 no, exrockstar, the context of those scriptures is not talking about those who have some abstract knowledge of God's existence, it is talking about those who KNEW Him and then chose to know Him no longer. context context context... 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. if they "knew God" why would you expect the Holy Spirit to enter them when they NEVER glorified Him nor were thankful? i think you have to explain your case more because if your saying "they" were Jews then as far as I know Jews never worshipped idols nor had origies or practiced homosexual activites as later described. these were paganists. Jesus Christ did miracles in front of gentiles including Romans. Everyone knew what Christ was doing. it was no secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 ok, let's try to make this simple. the israelites were God's people, correct? they knew God, they worshipped God. yet did they, or did they not, quit worshipping God and begin worshipping false gods? they did exactly what the passage in romans is talking about... they exchanged the truth for a lie. it is impossible to exchange something that you do not have to begin with. i told you read romans in context... and i will also suggest you read it in context with all the other scriptures on the subject, many of which have been posted in this thread and the other two that are currently active on the same issue. scripture makes a distinction between those who reject the truth for a lie and those who exchange it. those who exchange it would have been better off had they never accepted the truth in the first place. in that chapter alone, scripture makes clear references to those who although they DID know God, they did not RETAIN God, they EXCHANGED God, their hearts BECAME darkened and hardened, those who KNEW the judgement of God, and turned from Him anyway. and it also says in that chapter that God GAVE THEM UP to their vile affections and TURNED THEM OVER to their reprobate minds because they were worthy of DEATH. if you can't see that the point of paul's letter to the romans was to illustrate historically the dangers of turning away from God, then i don't know what to tell you. there's a verse somewhere, it escapes me now and i'm short on time, but it says basically that it is better for those who never knew Him at all than for those who knew Him and then rejected Him. again, i'll point out... not a single verse supporting your position denies that one can know God and walk away. and not a single verse that supports that one CAN walk away has any affect on scriptures which support the OSAS doctrine. THAT should tell you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 by the way, i like how you bolded the part that you think supports your belief and didn't bold the part that makes it clear that the reverse is true.... you said 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. perhaps this will make it a little more obvious... 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. now we all know that we are born in sin.... we don't somehow become that way in adulthood. these folks became that way AGAIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 even if i was to agree with everything that you are saying (just because im not getting your point). what does that have to do with losing salvation? whether they "knew God" in my view or in yours....the thread is "losing slavation." are you familiar with what salvation is? are you saying that just because one was a jew that they were automatically saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 i'm sorry, you're asking me if i know what salvation is? good grief. nor am i saying that just because they were jews they were automatically saved. i'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to grasp. they KNEW GOD, (i.e. they had a relationship with Him) and they EXCHANGED GOD for idol worship, and God GAVE THEM UP. and yes i know this thread is about losing salvation. my point is, one can not LOSE salvation, nor can they have their salvation STOLEN from them. but they CAN WALK AWAY from God and forfiet the gift of salvation they had once accepted. it is an act of selfish will on the part of the individual. it's called apostacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 i'm sorry, you're asking me if i know what salvation is? good grief. nor am i saying that just because they were jews they were automatically saved. i'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to grasp. they KNEW GOD, (i.e. they had a relationship with Him) and they EXCHANGED GOD for idol worship, and God GAVE THEM UP. and yes i know this thread is about losing salvation. my point is, one can not LOSE salvation, nor can they have their salvation STOLEN from them. but they CAN WALK AWAY from God and forfiet the gift of salvation they had once accepted. uhm....this isn't about God saving you. This is about Jesus Christ. at least ever since His death. are you going to say that that is what Paul meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methinkshe Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 679 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/02/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2007 i'm sorry, you're asking me if i know what salvation is? good grief. nor am i saying that just because they were jews they were automatically saved. i'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to grasp. they KNEW GOD, (i.e. they had a relationship with Him) and they EXCHANGED GOD for idol worship, and God GAVE THEM UP. and yes i know this thread is about losing salvation. my point is, one can not LOSE salvation, nor can they have their salvation STOLEN from them. but they CAN WALK AWAY from God and forfiet the gift of salvation they had once accepted. it is an act of selfish will on the part of the individual. it's called apostacy. Please could you explain to me how one forfeits a gift once accepted? Suppose you gave me a birthday present and at the time I thanked you very much for it. Subsequently, I made a whole website devoted to telling everyone what a rubbish gift you had given me, how I no longer even liked you, and what a stupid person you are. How would I forfeit that gift? Would you ask for it to be returned? Would you come and take it away? I cannot in logic and reason understand how one forfeits a gift. But I could just be obtuse and ignorant. I ask in all sincerity because I have long puzzled over this question. In Jesus, Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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