In need of help.....

[Marnie]

I think people were confused about whether you were referring to water baptism or Spirit baptism.

One is an ordinance established by Christ, the other was a command from Christ on His followers to wait until the Spirit fell upon them.

One receives the Holy Spirit at the moment of their conversion. Pentecostals and charismatics speak of a "second blessing," a further experience with the Holy Spirit. Although the experience can't be limited to those groups since I'm a Presbyterian and have experienced this so-called deeper experience.

[Treasure]

On Baptism, no, it's not necessary for salvation. It is; however, an example that Christ set for us. Since He was baptised, why shouldn't we be?

On receiving the Holy Spirit, I believe it happens at the point of salvation.

[MeCajunboy]

(I hear that the Catholics are also pretty sensible about avoiding showy rituals)

HA....okay. Ya, right

Cajunboy:::: Could you please explain your comment DNW and why YOU find it humerous God's Tramp?

[Guest]

When does one receive the Holy Spirit?

"GIVEN THE EARNEST OF THE SPIRIT IN OUR HEARTS"

"Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts."

2 Corinthians 1:21-22

What is the moment when one becomes the child of God?

BELIEVE

By Faith Ye Stand

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:16

By Grace Ye Stand

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Ephesians 2:8-9

By The Blood Ye Stand

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;"

Ephesians 2:13:14

Baptism X Three

Water - Spirit - Fire

John - Water

"And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water."

John 1:31

Jesus - Spirit

"And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost."

John 1:32

Jesus - Fire

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

Matthew 3:11

Believe

Bring Towels

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

[graymousey]

FresnoJoe whether Baptism is a necessary part of salvation or not, it has nothing to do with 'works'. Salvation is the free gift of God to a penitent person, and Baptism doesn't add anything to it. I know that.

My question was, 'when does one receive the Holy Spirit'? At the time he repents his sins and has an intention to turn away from them? Or only after he is baptized? The Scriptures you quote don't answer this question.

4given1, why do you think that Baptism is not necessary for salvation? How can you substantiate it with Scriptures?

What do you do with Scriptural examples when people received the Holy Spirit after Baptism?

Marine, you say that "One receives the Holy Spirit at the moment of their conversion.." But there are biblical examples when people received the Holy Spirit only after their Baptism. If that is the case, then Baptism IS necessary for salvation, isn't it?

[chicagoburbite]

Some people come to Christ while imprisoned, and they can't have a water baptism.

Others may come to Christ on a plane, that goes down, and they will still see Heaven

because they believed and recieved. Of course I'm not talking about a huge percent

of those who will be in Heaven, but even ONE in God's eyes is amazing.

Baptism does not save a person. But when it can be done, it is a DESIRED response to

coming to know the Lord personally.

[Marnie]

Marine, you say that "One receives the Holy Spirit at the moment of their conversion.." But there are biblical examples when people received the Holy Spirit only after their Baptism. If that is the case, then Baptism IS necessary for salvation, isn't it?

I think you are confused.

1. When you are born again, at that moment, the Holy Spirit takes us residence in your heart. Of this the NT is clear.

2. There are 7, I believe, instances in Acts where new converts "received the Holy Spirit" subsequent to their conversion. So, obviously, this is another "infilling" of sorts, perhaps a deepening of their walk or commitment to Christ and an empowerment for service. But their salvation was never in question. I draw your attention to Acts 19:1--3;

And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. (KJV)

Paul did not question their salvation, only their subsequent experience with the Holy Spirit.

3. Neither water baptism the ordinance or Holy Spirit baptism have anything whatsoever to do with salvation. We are baptized in water to be obedient to our Lord's wishes, and we pray for all that G-d has for us in terms of spiritual blessings.

[Guest]

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Romans 8:9

My question was, 'when does one receive the Holy Spirit'? At the time he repents his sins and has an intention to turn away from them? Or only after he is baptized? The Scriptures you quote don't answer this question.

Dear Sister

Please Forgive Me My Thick Old Head

I Am Puzzled By All Your Questions

So I May Fail You Again

The Holy Spirit Convicts Us Of Our Wretchedness

The Holy Spirit Gives Us Knowledge Of Our Helpless Need For Salvation

The Holy Spirit Allows Us To See Jesus

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

John 16:7-11

The Spirit Of New Birth

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 3:3-8

The Gift

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

All Things New

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2 Corinthians 5:17

See Jesus - Believe - See Jesus - Be Born Of The Spirit - See Jesus - Be Blessed - See Jesus

The Work Of Salvation

The Holy Father - "Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." John 17:24

The Lord Jesus - "Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." Acts 2:47

The Holy Spirit - "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit" John 3:8

Sorry!

I Doubt I Answered Your Questions About When God Does This And That

I do Know God, The Holy Ghost Is Always Involved

I Am Posting These Verses In The Hope That These Scriptures May Aid Anyone Reading To See A Little Of The Work Of The Holy Spirit In Salvation

As For My Salvation......

..... one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.

John 9:25

Oh How I Love Jesus

Love, Your Brother Joe

[sierra21]

I don't know where you live, but in Canada the "Church of God" is a demonination I think you would like. It is different from the one in the US though...so if you live there you might be out of luck!

[graymousey]

FresnoJoe, Marnie, Chicagoburbite I would like to thank to all of you for your replies. I am thinking about all what you said, and I do appreciate your efforts.