Guest shiloh357 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 And I AM addressing a person that is sinning out of ignorance. Is that a fact? See below. But a homosexual will argue that the same Old Testament Scripture that calls homosexuality an abomination also tells you to stone your mother-in-law and kill your wife for certain sins. And he will argue that the New Testament reference to homosexuality isn't actually about homosexuality. Which torpedoes the "sinning out of ignorance" argument. Rationalizing away what the Bible says about homosexuality does not qualify as ignorance. Once they are confronted with what the Bible says, they are no longer "ignorant" and it does not really matter what "interpretation" they follow. It doesn't "torpedo" anything. Just the opposite. It demonstrates that Christians interpret Scripture differently. Just as some Christians look at Scripture and find divorce/re-marriage acceptable, and some see it as sin-----some Christians see homosexuality (lived out) as acceptable and some see it as sin. Do you realize that there are more pastors in more denoms than I want to even think about that accept homosexuality as completely ok? (Which is why we need the Church to interpret Scripture---but that's a whole other debate.) Whether they are in open rebellion to Christ, or blind, or just plain ignorant, we are still bound to confront them and show them it is sin. However, Scripturally speaking, their degree of guilt will depend upon their understanding. Yes it does defeat the sinning in ignorance position. If a homosexual has to rationalize that homosexuality is not as wrong as the Bible says, he is not sinning in ignorance. I am not talking about Christians "interpreting" Scripture differently. When one goes crosswise with a direct statement even to the point of saying the Bible is categorically wrong on homosexuality, that is not "interpreting" the Bible. It is simply discarding the parts of the Bible one finds distasteful. For someone to sin in ignorance means that they have absolutely no possible way of knowing God's moral standard. If they had never seen or heard of a Bible, did not know about Christianity had absolutely no contact with the Christian world of any kind, THEN you could make a "sinninng in ignorance." As Cobalt said, it is not so much sinning in ignornance; rather it is living in a state of denial. If you are completely honest, you know good and well that genuine ignorance is the exception, not the rule at least in the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 QUOTE Which torpedoes the "sinning out of ignorance" argument. Rationalizing away what the Bible says about homosexuality does not qualify as ignorance. Who's speaking of rationalizing away anything? Divinely speaking (meaning God or a christian having knowledge of God's thinking on a matter), sin cannot be actualy rationalized away. Fiosh simply mentioned in an attempt to make point about people sinning in ignorance, that some people rationalize away what the Bible says about homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I've not been arguing an ex-homosexual having seen the light and niether has Fiosh. Neither have I. I have been talking about practicing homosexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted August 16, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2007 When one goes crosswise with a direct statement even to the point of saying the Bible is categorically wrong on homosexuality, that is not "interpreting" the Bible. It is simply discarding the parts of the Bible one finds distasteful. For someone to sin in ignorance means that they have absolutely no possible way of knowing God's moral standard. If they had never seen or heard of a Bible, did not know about Christianity had absolutely no contact with the Christian world of any kind, THEN you could make a "sinninng in ignorance." I agree that there are degrees of ignorance; just as there are degrees of culpability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 When one goes crosswise with a direct statement even to the point of saying the Bible is categorically wrong on homosexuality, that is not "interpreting" the Bible. It is simply discarding the parts of the Bible one finds distasteful. For someone to sin in ignorance means that they have absolutely no possible way of knowing God's moral standard. If they had never seen or heard of a Bible, did not know about Christianity had absolutely no contact with the Christian world of any kind, THEN you could make a "sinninng in ignorance." I agree that there are degrees of ignorance; just as there are degrees of culpability. I did not say there are degrees of ignorance at least where this subject is concerned. The Bible is explicit about homosexuality, and it is fair to say that unless gays are living under a rock their entire lives, they have been confronted with the Bible's position and rejected. At that point they are not ignorant, but are rebellious and their rebellion is taking them straight into hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 The Bible is explicit about homosexuality, and it is fair to say that unless gays are living under a rock their entire lives, they have been confronted with the Bible's position and rejected. At that point they are not ignorant, but are rebellious and their rebellion is taking them straight into hell. That is simply not true. An argument can be made that the Bible does not explicitly cite homosexuality as sin. Not saying I buy it. But there are those that interpret it as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 The Bible is explicit about homosexuality, and it is fair to say that unless gays are living under a rock their entire lives, they have been confronted with the Bible's position and rejected. At that point they are not ignorant, but are rebellious and their rebellion is taking them straight into hell. That is simply not true. An argument can be made that the Bible does not explicitly cite homosexuality as sin. Not saying I buy it. But there are those that interpret it as such. It is not a case of interpretation at all. The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination. To reject the clear statements of Scripture is not "interpretation." Interpretation assumes what is written is true and seeks to understand the intent of the author. Those who reject what the Scriptures teach are the anti-thesis of believers in Christ and have no part in the Kingdom of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 It is not a case of interpretation at all. The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination. To reject the clear statements of Scripture is not "interpretation." Interpretation assumes what is written is true and seeks to understand the intent of the author. It is clear to you and it is clear to me. But it is not clear to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 It is not a case of interpretation at all. The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination. To reject the clear statements of Scripture is not "interpretation." Interpretation assumes what is written is true and seeks to understand the intent of the author. It is clear to you and it is clear to me. But it is not clear to some. It is clear to them, which is why they have to fight what it says. If they didn't understand the explicit nature in which homosexuality was condemned they would not have to work so hard to discredit it. If you don't think they understand you are sorely misinformed. The Bible is written in 5th grade English. It is not at all ambiguous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 It is not a case of interpretation at all. The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination. To reject the clear statements of Scripture is not "interpretation." Interpretation assumes what is written is true and seeks to understand the intent of the author. It is clear to you and it is clear to me. But it is not clear to some. It is clear to them, which is why they have to fight what it says. If they didn't understand the explicit nature in which homosexuality was condemned they would not have to work so hard to discredit it. If you don't think they understand you are sorely misinformed. The Bible is written in 5th grade English. It is not at all ambiguous. So you are asserting that people do not disagree on the interpretaion of Scripture? You're kidding, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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