What About Those Who Have Not Heard

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The Bible tackles this subject thoroughly in Revelations 20. It talks about the first resurrection where the Saved are whisked off to live with Christ for a thousand years. (The Millennium)

Revelations 20:4

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The Judgment of the unsaved is not until after the millennium where the books are opened and they are judged according to their works.

Revelations 20: 7-13

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[Catsmeow]

As a foreign missionary to Southeast Asia, I am particularly concerned for Muslims and for all people. Islam is particularly predominant in Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia.

I received support from several churches and am very thankful. The money was used wisely and souls were won to Christ....so it does make a difference.

[JesusisGod2]

BSS: I don't believe in purgatory but I will be honest with you. I hope you and I are wrong. I hope there is a special place for those who haven't heard.

I want so much to reach them with the gospel and just can't. Sometimes it seems (some) missions organizations are to blame and inhibit the work of their own missionaries. *I said "some" organizations..not all.

Anyway, my hearts' desire is that all be saved. That's what I long for....

Amen cats...I follow one organization that I know rocks the mission field...Gospel For Asia...they do so much with so little....

Amen Blood Stained!

I also support Gospel for Asia, A very good organization, every penny is used for the furtherance of the gospel and the missionaries are faithful in their work, even to the point of death.

If anyone is interested, I noticed that George has the link for the free book on the Worthy Ministries home page called "Reveloution in the world missions" it is a very touching book about what is going on over in Asia, and how you can support their efforts.

Its well worth the investment.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings All,

Am I mistaken or am I hearing from many of you that you believe in "Universal Atonement"? I think someone misunderstood when I wrote that Jesus went and preached to those in prison.

Let me try to square this:

There is NO other Name by which we must be saved, and that Name is Jesus the Christ, or in Hebrew parlance Yeshua the Messiah. Before the cross, all the saints of God "looked forward" to the day of Messiah. After the cross, all the saints look back at the finished work of Christ. There are many verses in the OT which should prick the ears of the hearers at that time, but one in particular that I like is:

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

and here are some references to "the captivity":

Isaiah 61:1-2 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Up to the point of the cross, it was the "law" that held men captive. That law was broken at the cross, it would no longer hold men "captive". And these verses also point to the ultimate disposition of those in days gone by of the elected saints that had yet to "name that name which is above all names" - Yesuha the Messiah. These are they who were "in prison" until the day of dawning came upon mankind when Jesus came and proclaimed freedom to those in captivity. Jesus descended into the depths, to the prison where all who were "under the law" were held until the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Jesus shall never again "descend into the depths". He does not go visit and preach to those who have died AFTER the cross. There is appointed unto man once to die and THEN the judgment. Universal Atonement DOES NOT EXIST. There IS adequate scriptural support to show that God reaches out to every man, woman and child at some point in their life. He reveals to them that THERE IS A GOD, and He puts a drawing on their heart. IF they respond, He reveals His Son to them. If they accept His Son, as Lord and Savior, then they are saved, Just as the OT saints did when they heard Jesus preaching to them in "prison".

So please don't take my thoughts on the Lamb's Book of Life, as being a Universal Atonement, there is NO OTHER NAME by which we MUST be saved. AND "today is the day of salvation", NOT tomorrow, NOT after we die the physical death.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest mcm42]

3  For the time already past is sufficient for you to have carried out the desire of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties and abominable idolatries.

4  In all this, they are surprised that you do not run with them into the same excesses of dissipation, and they malign you;

5  but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

6  For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

I think this verse has been taken out of context. I rarely use this argument mainly because it's over used. Almost anytime someone uses a verse that disagress with their stance they say "you must be using it out of context" It's a very sad argument unless backed up with proof, and hopefully I am able to provide some proof of this.

Now The reason I think that this speaks of the Spiritually dead is because of the context, namely verse3,4,5. verses 3 and 4 show how the gentiles, "spiritually dead" live. Verse 5 shows how soon judgement is coming, then verse six says "for this purpose" (how soon judgement is coming) the gospel is preached "even to those who are dead" (those spoken of in 3 and 4). Why would he say "even to those who are dead?" This is the same reaction Paul had in Eph. 2 when he wrote "While we were yet dead in trespasses and sins, Christ died for us". The point is that because judgement is coming soon, the gospel is preached to those who live in dissapation, because even though they are judged as men, through the Gospel they may live in the Spirit according to the Will of God.

I guess if it is talking about those who are dead physically, I wonder how they will live in the spirit according to God's will? How can they do God's will here, if they are already physically dead?

This may not be clear, I will clarify any area, just ask... but this is how I feel about the passage and I feel that this is most consistant with the context of both 1 Peter and the context of the entire Bible.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings MCM,

1 Peter 4:6  For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

This is who Peter is speaking about who were dead:

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

as a result of:

Ephesians 4:8-9 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Jesus will NEVER again "descend into the lower part of the earth" & "preach to the spirits in prison".

You will find no support in the Bible for Universal Salvation.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[OneAccord]

As for me, I'm believing that Jesus Christ won an absolute and total victory upon the cross at Calvary. As in Adam ALL have died, so in Christ ALL shall live. I don't believe that Adam's sin was more powerful than Jesus Christ's salvation.

His mercy endures forever, amen. And that's the Good News.

[Dad Ernie]

As for me, I'm believing that Jesus Christ won an absolute and total victory upon the cross at Calvary. As in Adam ALL have died, so in Christ ALL shall live. I don't believe that Adam's sin was more powerful than Jesus Christ's salvation.

Greetings OA,

Every man since Adam has carried the seed of "physical" death in his body - EXCEPT for our Lord Jesus. People continue to die, even after Christ arose, but they ALL die "physically". ALL those IN Christ shall live, but those who REJECT HIM shall perish and end up in the Lake of Fire. My physical body remains a part of Adam, but my SPIRIT has now been made alive in Christ and it shall NEVER die. I can't say that about unbelievers.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest mcm42]

ALL those IN Christ shall live, but those who REJECT HIM shall perish and end up in the Lake of Fire.

Just to clarify "reject". I think rather than continue a board with discussion on who is and isn't saved... How about this little twist...

What is required for condemnation?

Here you say that "those who reject him shall perish". Is this an outright Rejection... or what about someone who wollows through life and stays away from those "religious types" and kind of rides the fence?

My stance is clear, All are first and foremost dead in sin. I believe we start out totally and completely condemned!

I believe only through God's merciful election, which is displayed either in works such as acceptance, belief, and any other "good work", can a person be saved. I Believe that if a person does not "hear the word" he is like all others eternally condemned. He gets what is deserved, eternal punishment. It is just that the sinner is condemned.

However, when God brings missionaries into a country and provides food, water, and the Gospel, and many come to Christ, these are the Chosen. Naturally one who isn't chosen, get's the due punishment for his sins.

We do not! Those who believe God has chosen to spare... All to his GLORY AND MAJESTY! He is the potter, and we are the clay, it is his right to choose as Creator.

As far as those who do not hear... my stance is clear... they die in sin, without the mercy of God. "Why evangelize" one may argue, "God will save who He wants, why witness?" My answer is two fold, one because God commanded it... two because God has chosen some, and it is our duty to go out preach the Gospel so that the Elect can be brought forward, ALL TO THE GLORY OF GOD.

This is my view, I think it holds closely to scripture, if you seek Passages to back this veiw up I will give them by request, but this post is already very long. So just quote me and I will either "stand corrected" Or I will provide ample verses, and proof for my belief.

Hope this helps in some way..

God Bless

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings MCM,

Here you say that "those who reject him shall perish". Is this an outright Rejection... or what about someone who wollows through life and stays away from those "religious types" and kind of rides the fence?

Here is the answer:

Revelation 3:15-16 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Rather dire warnings, wouldn't you say?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie