nebula Posted August 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 25, 2007 (edited) I realy have the problem with the whole Trinity explanation. And it is an explanation that the church gives. But you didn't answer the questions regarding what the Scriptures state. Edited August 25, 2007 by nebula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahweh is salvation Posted August 25, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 124 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/19/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 I realy have the problem with the whole Trinity explanation. And it is an explanation that the church gives. If Jesus is God, then why does God have to pray to anyone and ask them to be spared. " Father, if it is possible, don't let this happen to me! Father, you can do anything. Don't make me suffer by having me drink from this cup. But do what you want, and not what I want." (Mark 14.35-36 ) Because as you can readily see, there is rank in Godhead. More than that, what you need to understand is that Jesus was showing us how to live. Jesus demonstrated that it was possible to live in complete dependence on the Father in the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus, while being God, wilingly gave up several Divine priviledges and took on humanity with its limitations to show that even as limited as we are, we can still live by faith in our Heavenly Father. Jesus was demonstrating the Will of the Father. Had Jesus not emptied Himself and become a servant, He would not have been much of an example to us. Jesus allowed Himself to be tempted and even allowed Himself to die. Jesus lived in complete dependence on His Father, not because Jesus could not have acted on His own, but in addition to being our example, Jesus had a mission to complete and He had to be willing to take upon Himself the full price for sin. He had to be willing bear full cup of God's wrath and justice against sin. A man could not have bore the price for sin. God Himself (who is the only savior in the world according to Isaiah) had to save man from Sin. God said in Isaiah 43:11, "I am the Lord and beside me there is no Savior. So how can Jesus and not be God, if God says that He and He alone is the Savior? If Jesus is not God, then He cannot be the Savior. That is something that only belongs to God. Consider also tha the apostle Peter declared in Acts, that there no other Name under heaven save the Name of Jesus whereby men must be saved. Jesus is the only Savior, God is the only Savior, therefore, Jesus is God. You may not care for the Trinity, but the concept is in the Bible, even if the word "trinity" is not. Trinity, Godhead (all church words) trying to explain something that is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 25, 2007 God Himself (who is the only savior in the world according to Isaiah) had to save man from Sin. God said in Isaiah 43:11, "I am the Lord and beside me there is no Savior. So how can Jesus and not be God, if God says that He and He alone is the Savior? If Jesus is not God, then He cannot be the Savior. That is something that only belongs to God. Consider also tha the apostle Peter declared in Acts, that there no other Name under heaven save the Name of Jesus whereby men must be saved. Jesus is the only Savior, God is the only Savior, therefore, Jesus is God. Trinity, Godhead (all church words) trying to explain something that is not. But how doyou answer the challenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahweh is salvation Posted August 25, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 124 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/19/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 John 10:30 The Father and I are one." 31 Again the Jews picked up rocks to stone Him. 32 Jesus replied, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these works are you stoning Me?" 33 "We aren't stoning You for a good work," the Jews answered, "but for blasphemy, and because You--being a man--make Yourself God." 34 Jesus answered them, "Isn't it written in your law, I said, you are gods ? 35 If He called those to whom the word of God came 'gods'--and the Scripture cannot be broken-- 36 do you say, 'You are blaspheming' to the One the Father set apart and sent into the world, because I said 'I am the Son of God'? 37 If I am not doing My Father's works, don't believe Me. 38 But if I am doing them and you don't believe Me, believe the works. This way you will know and understand that the Father is in Me and I in the Father." Ok. so he did say Son of God ( equal to God ). But what do you make of the first part: "The Father and I are one"? If Jesus is not God, then what do you believe Jesus to mean? The Jews didn't beleive that he was sent by God then and they still don't beleive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted August 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted August 25, 2007 John 10:30 The Father and I are one." 31 Again the Jews picked up rocks to stone Him. 32 Jesus replied, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these works are you stoning Me?" 33 "We aren't stoning You for a good work," the Jews answered, "but for blasphemy, and because You--being a man--make Yourself God." 34 Jesus answered them, "Isn't it written in your law, I said, you are gods ? 35 If He called those to whom the word of God came 'gods'--and the Scripture cannot be broken-- 36 do you say, 'You are blaspheming' to the One the Father set apart and sent into the world, because I said 'I am the Son of God'? 37 If I am not doing My Father's works, don't believe Me. 38 But if I am doing them and you don't believe Me, believe the works. This way you will know and understand that the Father is in Me and I in the Father." Ok. so he did say Son of God ( equal to God ). But what do you make of the first part: "The Father and I are one"? If Jesus is not God, then what do you believe Jesus to mean? The Jews didn't beleive that he was sent by God then and they still don't beleive. Really, then who made up the first Christians if the Jews didn't believe????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahweh is salvation Posted August 25, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 124 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/19/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 God Himself (who is the only savior in the world according to Isaiah) had to save man from Sin. God said in Isaiah 43:11, "I am the Lord and beside me there is no Savior. So how can Jesus and not be God, if God says that He and He alone is the Savior? If Jesus is not God, then He cannot be the Savior. That is something that only belongs to God. Consider also tha the apostle Peter declared in Acts, that there no other Name under heaven save the Name of Jesus whereby men must be saved. Jesus is the only Savior, God is the only Savior, therefore, Jesus is God. Trinity, Godhead (all church words) trying to explain something that is not. But how doyou answer the challenge? Moses and Jesus were both given the power to do what they did and neither one of them is God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 25, 2007 But what do you make of the first part: "The Father and I are one"? If Jesus is not God, then what do you believe Jesus to mean? The Jews didn't beleive that he was sent by God then and they still don't beleive. I am not following your train of thought. What does the belief of anyone have to do with what Jesus said? Jesus said: "The Father and I are one." What does "one" mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahweh is salvation Posted August 25, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 124 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/19/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 John 10:30 The Father and I are one." 31 Again the Jews picked up rocks to stone Him. 32 Jesus replied, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these works are you stoning Me?" 33 "We aren't stoning You for a good work," the Jews answered, "but for blasphemy, and because You--being a man--make Yourself God." 34 Jesus answered them, "Isn't it written in your law, I said, you are gods ? 35 If He called those to whom the word of God came 'gods'--and the Scripture cannot be broken-- 36 do you say, 'You are blaspheming' to the One the Father set apart and sent into the world, because I said 'I am the Son of God'? 37 If I am not doing My Father's works, don't believe Me. 38 But if I am doing them and you don't believe Me, believe the works. This way you will know and understand that the Father is in Me and I in the Father." Ok. so he did say Son of God ( equal to God ). But what do you make of the first part: "The Father and I are one"? If Jesus is not God, then what do you believe Jesus to mean? The Jews didn't beleive that he was sent by God then and they still don't beleive. Really, then who made up the first Christians if the Jews didn't believe????? Jews did, the ones that beleived. But those same ones that didn't beleive, were caled Jews then and still are the Jews now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 25, 2007 But what do you make of the first part: "The Father and I are one"? If Jesus is not God, then what do you believe Jesus to mean? The Jews didn't beleive that he was sent by God then and they still don't beleive. I am not following your train of thought. What does the belief of anyone have to do with what Jesus said? Jesus said: "The Father and I are one." What does "one" mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 25, 2007 God Himself (who is the only savior in the world according to Isaiah) had to save man from Sin. God said in Isaiah 43:11, "I am the Lord and beside me there is no Savior. So how can Jesus and not be God, if God says that He and He alone is the Savior? If Jesus is not God, then He cannot be the Savior. That is something that only belongs to God. Consider also tha the apostle Peter declared in Acts, that there no other Name under heaven save the Name of Jesus whereby men must be saved. Jesus is the only Savior, God is the only Savior, therefore, Jesus is God. Trinity, Godhead (all church words) trying to explain something that is not. But how do you answer the challenge? Moses and Jesus were both given the power to do what they did and neither one of them is God. I fail to see how the response answers the question. Tell us - is Jesus your Savior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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