Poll for atheists if you don't mind

[ollkiller]

To your questions.

No i don't debate on any other religious websites. Islamic or otherwise. The reason would be i don't know much about those religions and being from Ireland was brought up in christianity so it's relevant to me.

"From an atheistic perspective, male dominated laws are a Christian tradition as well as an Islamic one. "

I had a feeling this would be brought up when I mentioned the Islamic laws. As a Christian, and a woman, I don't agree that the laws are male dominated. I do beleive that in the heirarchy of a family, the man is the head and I don't mind this at all. There HAS to be a heirarchy - even in business courses these days, they tell you not to go into a 50.50 parnership - 51/49 is much better. In a Christian marriage, when two people can't come to an agreement, the husband would have the final say. He's to seek out God's wisdom. The husband's burden is heavier and he's judged by God mre harshly as one in the position of spiritual leader.

In a nonChristian marriage, when the husband and wife are at a major crux and can't agree, they divorce. Probably one reason why divorce is so high here.

I really can't agree with this point. I'm going out with my girlfriend for 7 years (not married because we don't believe you need a piece of paper to show what you already have, but in every other way we're the same as a married couple). We are both equal in the relationship, she is my partner, my equal. I would never see myself as above her. If a marriage is going to survive there has to be comprimise, not a hierarchy.

[artsylady]

"I really can't agree with this point. I'm going out with my girlfriend for 7 years (not married because we don't believe you need a piece of paper to show what you already have, but in every other way we're the same as a married couple). We are both equal in the relationship, she is my partner, my equal. I would never see myself as above her. If a marriage is going to survive there has to be comprimise, not a hierarchy."

So if you were offered a job in Canada and really wanted to go more than anything else in your life, and she was adamant about staying in Ireland and you couldn't come to a final decision, what do you do?

[artsylady]

Second Eve:

I find it odd that when you were younger, you attended church regularly yet never bought into any of it, then as you go older embraced wiccan hook line and sinker. Just find it odd is all. Can you explain why you were ready to embrace one religion at an older age, while the first one you learned you never embraced at all.

[secondeve]

Second Eve:

I find it odd that when you were younger, you attended church regularly yet never bought into any of it, then as you go older embraced wiccan hook line and sinker. Just find it odd is all. Can you explain why you were ready to embrace one religion at an older age, while the first one you learned you never embraced at all.

Sorry, there seems to be a confusion here: I never attended church as a kid. When I say we had weekly religion classes, I mean a young reverend came into our classroom and told us Bible stories, not that we had a sermon or anything. The only times I went to church between the ages of 0 and 14 was one, to be baptised when I was a few weeks old, and two, when I was six or so, and my Catholic best friend took me to church/Sunday school with her, which I found baffling.

As for falling for Wicca 'hook, line and sinker,' I wouldn't quite say I did. I never prayed to any god or goddess, or bought any books on the subject, and to all intents and purposes (bar an interest in trying to make 'magic,' which, as stated, never worked) remained an atheist. My worldview didn't change. And, as has been mentioned, given that absolutely nothing happened on the few occasions we tried to make balls of energy shoot out our hands or somesuch, we pretty much all just stopped.

So quite honestly, I've never embraced a religion in the sense of believing in a higher power. I tried on the idea of magic for a short while (which is perhaps how I should have phrased it originally), but it wasn't real, so I stopped. Simple.

[ollkiller]

"I really can't agree with this point. I'm going out with my girlfriend for 7 years (not married because we don't believe you need a piece of paper to show what you already have, but in every other way we're the same as a married couple). We are both equal in the relationship, she is my partner, my equal. I would never see myself as above her. If a marriage is going to survive there has to be comprimise, not a hierarchy."

So if you were offered a job in Canada and really wanted to go more than anything else in your life, and she was adamant about staying in Ireland and you couldn't come to a final decision, what do you do?

You've used a bad example there as is not a job on this planet that would lead me to leave my girlfriend. Also we do what is best for both of us. Basically we're in it together, not seperately.

[artsylady]

Okay then, SHE has the job of a lifetime and wants to leave.

You get the picture. Some event or decision that is life-changing that you simply can't agree on. How do you decide? This is the kind of thing that causes divorces all of the time. I've actually never known a couple that has lived together that has stayed together to be honest. I've known lots of married people who got divorced, but also a lot that stuck it out through thick and thin.

About marriage being a peice of paper - trust me, it's not about the paper at all. I don't even know where my paper is at the moment.

Marriage is about a commitment. It's making vows to each other publicly and (usually) before God that you will love this person, be faithful to this person, stick it out in sickness and health, for better or worse, richer or poorer etc. So if my husband ends up a parapalegic, I'm his nurse for the rest of his life. A peice of paper doesn't begin to describe what it is.

It's easy to move in together and say 'I love you and always will". That takes no lifelong commitment or major decision making process to accomplish. Married couples typically go through a lot in their life - deaths in the family and deaths of friends, infertility, misscarriage, death of a child perhaps, relocations, rebellious children or children with health problems, accidents - you name it. You need a very strong bond to make it through some of this stuff. If you can't make vows publicly then I doubt you can make it through life and stay committed together.

Honest to God, and some here know, we've been on the brink of divorce. If it hadn't been for the vows, I would have packed it in already, a few times. Now, things are finally getting to be really good and since we've been through all of that, we're stronger now.

So, back to the question on the lifechanging decision that you have to make...

In the Christian world, the man prayerfully seeks out God's will and prays that his wife will also see it. The wife prays too. They pray together. This doesn't mean that the husband doesn't change his heart and go with what the wife originally wanted either! The decision is left to the Almighty and by the time it's made, they both know it. There's no resentment by anyone because it's the right decision. It couldn't be more perfect. I know you don't beleive in this stuff but I do and it works.

[ollkiller]

Okay then, SHE has the job of a lifetime and wants to leave.

You get the picture. Some event or decision that is life-changing that you simply can't agree on. How do you decide? This is the kind of thing that causes divorces all of the time. I've actually never known a couple that has lived together that has stayed together to be honest. I've known lots of married people who got divorced, but also a lot that stuck it out through thick and thin.

About marriage being a peice of paper - trust me, it's not about the paper at all. I don't even know where my paper is at the moment.

Marriage is about a commitment. It's making vows to each other publicly and (usually) before God that you will love this person, be faithful to this person, stick it out in sickness and health, for better or worse, richer or poorer etc. So if my husband ends up a parapalegic, I'm his nurse for the rest of his life. A peice of paper doesn't begin to describe what it is.

It's easy to move in together and say 'I love you and always will". That takes no lifelong commitment or major decision making process to accomplish. Married couples typically go through a lot in their life - deaths in the family and deaths of friends, infertility, misscarriage, death of a child perhaps, relocations, rebellious children or children with health problems, accidents - you name it. You need a very strong bond to make it through some of this stuff. If you can't make vows publicly then I doubt you can make it through life and stay committed together.

Honest to God, and some here know, we've been on the brink of divorce. If it hadn't been for the vows, I would have packed it in already, a few times. Now, things are finally getting to be really good and since we've been through all of that, we're stronger now.

So, back to the question on the lifechanging decision that you have to make...

In the Christian world, the man prayerfully seeks out God's will and prays that his wife will also see it. The wife prays too. They pray together. This doesn't mean that the husband doesn't change his heart and go with what the wife originally wanted either! The decision is left to the Almighty and by the time it's made, they both know it. There's no resentment by anyone because it's the right decision. It couldn't be more perfect. I know you don't beleive in this stuff but I do and it works.

From your original question if i got offered the perfect job she would go with me as i would go with her for her perfect job. My point is for us, being together is the most important thing.

Next, you've never known a couple that lived together that stayed together. Well congratulations. you only barely know me but we're stayed together.

Your point about marriage is not just a piece of paper. I totally agree with you and the points you raised. Where we are coming from is we don't need to be married to know what we have together. I would be with my girlfriend through thick and thin as she would me. Also i don't think you need to make vows publicly, i think you should make vows to each other. I'd actually say our view of relationships is quite similar only that we disagree on whether you need to be married to confirm those views. Later.

[artsylady]

Can I ask how old you are and how long you've been together?

[artsylady]

Regarding the public part, the saying the vows in public just makes it more well known that you are fully committed no matter what. It kind of solidifies things that you are willing to do this in front of witnesses. Too many young people don't take this seriously enough. For too many, it's about having a beautiful day and a wonderful party and life will be blissful forever after. I always recommend premaritial counselling to younger people who are getting married because it causes you to contemplate all the 'what ifs" ahead of time, because some of the 'what ifs' are bound to happen eventually.

As for the before God part, as a Christian, this is the part that kept me going when I thought things were impossible. Honestly, if I hadn't been a Christian and had not made the vows before God and to God, I would have been divorced by now. The vows said before people were important, but not important enough to stay. So, I stayed because I had made a commitment to God and stuck it out and I'm so glad I did.

[ollkiller]

Regarding the public part, the saying the vows in public just makes it more well known that you are fully committed no matter what. It kind of solidifies things that you are willing to do this in front of witnesses. Too many young people don't take this seriously enough. For too many, it's about having a beautiful day and a wonderful party and life will be blissful forever after. I always recommend premaritial counselling to younger people who are getting married because it causes you to contemplate all the 'what ifs" ahead of time, because some of the 'what ifs' are bound to happen eventually.

As for the before God part, as a Christian, this is the part that kept me going when I thought things were impossible. Honestly, if I hadn't been a Christian and had not made the vows before God and to God, I would have been divorced by now. The vows said before people were important, but not important enough to stay. So, I stayed because I had made a commitment to God and stuck it out and I'm so glad I did.

Your questions. 28 and going out 7 years. Regarding the saying our vows in public to make it more well known, i don't need other people to know how commited i am. We really don't see the point in spending loads of money on a wedding to make a commitment to each other when that commitment is already in place. Your right about people getting married for the big day though.

As for your beliefs helping you regarding your marriage good for you. If it helps you and your in a better marriage now(you said that earlier), then that's only a good thing. Later.