Openly Curious Posted October 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 Mark 10:26--31-- "And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? (vs 27) And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God for with God all things are possible. (vs. 28) Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. (vs. 29) And Jesus answered and said. Verily I say unto you. There is no man that hath left house, or brethren or sisters or fathers or mother or wife or children or lands for my sake and the gospel's. (vs.30) But he shall recieve an hundredfold now in this time houses and brethren and sisters and mothers and children and lands with persecutions and in the world to come eternal life. (vs. 31) But many that are first shall be last and the last first." Now just prior to the verses here they was a rich young ruler who wasn't willing to let go of his wealth in his heart and he went away sad because of it. Then Jesus turned around and said to his disciples how hardly shall those that had riches enter in the kingdom of God. Then the disciples are all astonished at what he just said. And Jesus said to them further that those who trusted in riches that it was hard for them to enter the kingdom and it was easier for a camel to get through an eye of needle than for them to get into the kingdom. Then the disciples stunned at what Jesus said and said to one another "Then who can be saved?" and Jesus response was that with God their was nothing impossible and the disciples got to thinking about all this and started realizing hey we have left all in this life to follow you and Jesus begin to tell them that no man has left all and followed him in this life that shall get a hundredfold for doing so and also they would have eternal life as well. Among those things listed were kin, family, wives and children. Now Jesus specifically said if you left any of these things "for My sake and the Gospel's sake" then you will recieve a hundredfold for doing it. The reason I started this thread is to get others opinions on this because I have heard and seen many who have left or abandoned their families and think that it is right to do so because of this scripture as husbands and wives have used this scripture for biblical basis to seperate and get a divorce based on religious convictions. I didn't want to necessarily start another divorce and remarriage thread by bringing this up but it does come into the subject matter. So is it right or wrong to leave family and the place you live your kids for the pursuit of righteouness sake or Jesus sake and the gospel's just abandoning the wives and children for a hundredfold. Does this scripture condone divorce or not? OC If God calls you to do a specific work for Him, and your spouse is unwilling to follow; divorce might result. However, the fault lies with the one unwilling to answer the call of God. Hello hr.jr, Interesting reply thank you. But your response brought up some thoughts. When you said that divorce might follow are you suggesting that the divorce was initiated by the disobedient spouse or the one who answered the call? thanks OC The disobedient spouse. I know several ministers whose wife divorced them because they entered the ministry. Okay, I have heard stories like that myself I was just trying to see if that was the kind of thing you were talking about. thanks OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted October 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted October 25, 2007 persecutions Did Anybody else notice that the word above was also involved in OC's verse???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted October 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 God's plan is clear. 1. God 2. spouse 3. child[ren] 4. service Putting God first in your life does not mean leaving everything behind physically and going to pursue Him. If you serve him with your whole heart every day then he is first in your life. I do not believe it was meant that you leave the family God entrusted you with behind to pursue righteousness. Righteousness is doing what is right. That would not be right. He was not telling them to give it up, he was saying that if you do, if you had to, as the apostles had done, you will recieve a hundredfold back what you had given up. Hello Biblicist, Thanks so much for your input here. I agree with your assessment of the original OP with what you posted. I do not believe a person should abandon their families to follow Jesus and stay gone forever. But in the particular passage I used it said, "For My Sake and the Gospel's" not for Righteousness sake. I noticed that you said in the part I underlined above in your post that you was saying, "that if you do, if you had to, as the apostles had done, you will recieve a hundredfold back what you had given up." So I was curious to ask you do you think that God causes people to forsake all and follow him and never look back again? While others he never asks this of them. As I do have some thoughts on this myself but I was interested in any of your thought on it if you have any to share. thanks OC I know a man that accepted Jesus Christ as his personal saviour. His wife was JW and the teachings of her church are that she could not be married to him anymore because of his belief. She divorced him.....1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. He had no choice but to let her go, and his children. He did it for the sake of Christ. Should have denied Christ to keep his wife and children? I have no idea what his life is like at this time. But I believe that this is what Christ meant. He lost his wife and family for Christ's sake. Not because it was right, that is for sure. We have a couple at church that lost their family ties when they became Christians. For a long time their parents and siblings would not talk to them. God replaced the family lost with the family of God. I am sure that, if you asked, you would hear stories like this in every church. Hi Biblicist, I agree with you and you have given perfect examples. I think we have all heard of these kind of things going on around us. My husband and myself actually met a man at a store who had came up and asked for money and my husband got to talking with the man and after a long while the man said that he had left his wife and family in order to preach the gospel and said he started out good but eventually ran out of money and getting by however he could and my husband told him he ought to go back home if he could to his wife and children and do right by them and my husband was going to give him the money to call his wife and he said he already had and his wife would take him back if he come back but he felt he was unworthy to go back to her and was ashamed by what he had done but husband kept on talking with him and reasoned with him to the point he did call his wife before we left and his wife told him she was going to send him the money all he had to do was come home. But people are doing these kinds of things today and in this example I just used it was not the right manner to pursue Jesus's sake and the gospel's. I've known of couples where one wanted to leave the other to pursue the ministry and actually left their spouse and they never pursued the ministry at all just ended up remarrying again. But I think when Jesus was talking about this to his disciples I think that he meant leaving your families, houses and wives and so forth for a certain amount of time in order to evangelize and preach the gospel and then after doing this they was to return to their families and such. As Jesus never meant for others to leave and abandon their families for ever and preach to gospel replacing them leaving them to make it all on their own. I think the truth is found Mark 10:31--"But many that are first shall be last and the last first." I thought while I was reflecting on this passage that it was odd that this verse would be there at it seemed out of place but it brought back the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 20:1-16 about the workers in the vineyard in how a man hired a man to work in his field for a penny then later on the man hired other workers to work in his field at the end of the day all of the workers were given a penny and the first man was mad cause he thought he should have gotten more cause he worked longer than the others did. But making it short it said that those who were first shall be last and those who was first shall be last. The jest of it all is I think that those who in this life work for Jesus then they will be taken care of by God but those who will go and labour in the gospel spreading the good news then these will be first into the kingdom and those who will not answer the call to labour in the field then they will be last as they haven't given up any thing but the others have served. So I think it is teaching us that if we answer the call to minister the gospel then it is only going to be for a short time away from our families and houses then when our work is finished they are to return home to be with their families as those who go will be cared for in the way. Sorry so long OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted October 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 persecutions Did Anybody else notice that the word above was also involved in OC's verse???? Amen, Scarletprayers, If one is going to preach to Gospel it will be with persecution OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted October 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 I don't think this means to literally abandon family. I think it means that Jesus must be first in our lives. If your family rejects the Lord, and threatens to leave you or disown you if you decide to serve Jesus, and you lose them, then you will receive from God a hundred fold better than you had. In the long run, nobody that chooses Christ will be the worse off for that decision. We may suffer losses, but nothing we lose will compare to what we gain, in this world and the world to come. The whole issue is one of priorities, and a question as to what is your first love? Is there something in this world that means more to you than Jesus? Is it money? Is it position? Is it family? If there is, those things have become an idol. That is what is meant in another controversial scripture that states that we are to hate our family, and our very lives. Jesus doesn't mean hate in the way we think of hate. That wouldn't make sense considering his emphasis on love. He means that in comparison to God, the things in this world, including our family and our very lives, should take a back seat. Biblicist brought up her opinion that the order of importance in our lives should be: 1 God 2 Spouce 3 Children 4 Service I would tend to agree with her. God has to be number 1. Some people place service as second, because they say that if God is first, that means ministry has to come next in line, but God places a great deal of emphasis on the husband-wife relationship. I don't believe a ministry is of greater importance than one's spouce. I also agree that the children are of higher importance than ministry. In reality, making sure one's family is taken care of is a ministry. With that in mind, how do we serve God first? By refusing to deny Christ, and by obeying his Word, regardless of any persecution we might have to endure, sometimes from those closest to us. Hello Butero, Thanks for your reply and I happen to agree with it all the way around as you make solid and sound points so thanks again for your respose. OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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