Burning_Ember Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2007 And so it is, IF--AND THIS IS A REALLY BIG "IF"--if you have captured an honorable soldier in his required uniform, fighting under his standard, AS PER THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS. These filthy terrorist vermin who hide among, and thereby endanger innocent civilians, do NOT HAVE, and DO NOT DESERVE the protections afforded to honorable soldiers! These are the lowest, dirtiest, most malevolent pieces of human scum we have ever had to fight! Even the NAZI 'wolf-packs' after WWII usually operated in their uniforms and in such ways as to attempt to minimize innocent civilian casualties. (edited by moderator) You bring up a point that most are conveniently forgetting. If you are a terrorist, fighting in civilian clothes, you have absolutely no rights under the Geneva Convention. Terrorists have no rights whatsoever under the convention. Then do you agree by the same logic, that if the American Revolution were to take place today, the revolutionaries fighting in civilian clothes would be terrorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hr.jr. Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 615 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2007 I'm not trying to say that we were as bad as Islamic terrorists, nor am I trying to justify their actions. But I AM trying to say that they are human, and just like us, have reasons for their actions. Are their actions extreme? Absolutely. Are their actions violent and horrible? Absolutely. Does this mean they deserve inhumane treatment, or that we don't need to give them basic human rights? Not in my mind. Let's make no mistake; they aren't being terrorists for kicks, and they aren't doing it because they are evil. They believe that they are resisting an evil superpower that is oppressing their god. Now I understand that what they are doing is very misguided, and their actions can be evil. But imagine we were put in a situation where we authentically were being oppressed by an evil superpower. Wouldn't it make more sense to act more radically in opposition of this superpower? I don't think it would justify violence, but I could certainly be more convinced to commit more radical actions in order to damage this system of oppression. Again, I'm not saying we are this evil power, but in their minds we are, and that's all that matters. Now, looking back at torture, don't you think it makes things worse? I feel that treating them like dogs is not a good way to make them stop with their violence. To sum it up, if we are going to end the hate and the death, we need to get to the root of the problem: why are they doing this? If we can't answer and correct the why, things aren't going to stop. But a good start would be to treat them like human beings, even when they are caught and incarcerated. We know how to win wars. We have done it in the past. We need to quit being Politically correct and fight to win. Ask General Sherman how to win a war. Even though I do not like him, (I am a Southerner) he was the best military tactitioner to ever walk the face of this planet. He understood how to win a war. In summation, his theory was to fight the army of the enemy only when you have to. Spend 90% of your time and resources breaking the will of the people to fight against you. When he was told Hood's army was escaping to Tennessee, he said I will give him rations to get there if he needs them. Sherman's target was the people enabling the army. Break the will of the people to field an army; the army will soon cease to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hr.jr. Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 615 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2007 And so it is, IF--AND THIS IS A REALLY BIG "IF"--if you have captured an honorable soldier in his required uniform, fighting under his standard, AS PER THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS. These filthy terrorist vermin who hide among, and thereby endanger innocent civilians, do NOT HAVE, and DO NOT DESERVE the protections afforded to honorable soldiers! These are the lowest, dirtiest, most malevolent pieces of human scum we have ever had to fight! Even the NAZI 'wolf-packs' after WWII usually operated in their uniforms and in such ways as to attempt to minimize innocent civilian casualties. (edited by moderator) You bring up a point that most are conveniently forgetting. If you are a terrorist, fighting in civilian clothes, you have absolutely no rights under the Geneva Convention. Terrorists have no rights whatsoever under the convention. Then do you agree by the same logic, that if the American Revolution were to take place today, the revolutionaries fighting in civilian clothes would be terrorists? If they were fighting in civilian clothing, they would be war criminals by the standards of today. Many of the actions of the continental army were terroristic in nature. Had the British army responded with extreme brutality, they would have overcome the terrorism of the continental army. What did the British army do? They kept following the "rules." Wha happened to them? THEY LOST! I do not fault the modern day terrorists for using the tactics they use. I fault us for being stupid enough to remain vulnerable to them due to political correctness. Terrorism is sound warfare tactic. However, extreme brutality is the sound counter measuere to a group who chooses to employ terrorism as a military tactic. You must make it so costly for them that they will not fight you. If the enemy kills one of our soldiers, we should kill 1000 of their soldiers and the Support group behind their soldiers. How did we win WWII? We carpet bombed and incendiary bombed civilian centers. We used nuclear weapons on Civilian centers. IT WORKED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hr.jr. Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 615 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2007 And so it is, IF--AND THIS IS A REALLY BIG "IF"--if you have captured an honorable soldier in his required uniform, fighting under his standard, AS PER THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS. These filthy terrorist vermin who hide among, and thereby endanger innocent civilians, do NOT HAVE, and DO NOT DESERVE the protections afforded to honorable soldiers! These are the lowest, dirtiest, most malevolent pieces of human scum we have ever had to fight! Even the NAZI 'wolf-packs' after WWII usually operated in their uniforms and in such ways as to attempt to minimize innocent civilian casualties. (edited by moderator) Cause terrorists don't deserve basic human rights, right Leonard? Fun fact: During the revolutionary war, the rebels (us) didn't have a uniform. In fact, we fought Britain by hit and run tactics in the woods. Fortunatly for us, that made us patriots, not terrorists Hold up now, there's a whole lot of difference between Al-Quaida and the American Revolutionaries. For one, we were a very young nation without the strength of a strong central government at the time. It's kind of amazing that we did win our independence in the first place. Think to yourself, could any of that apply to Iraq? No strong Central Government, Just got independence... We had a goal in mind to seperate from an oppressive superpower. That is where the similarities end. Everything else was different in tactics, motivation, and cause after that. Islamic terrorists today have a completely different goal in mind than we did back then. They have a completely different mindset and values than we did. Islamic terrorists place no value on life, American Revolutionaries did. Islamic Terrorists will not stop until their brand of ruthless, Godless societal rules are in place in all corners of the world. American Revolutionaries stopped when the British surrendered and allowed for our independence. We did not then pursue them around the world in all countries where they were and blow up their children. We had the honor to meet our goals and then go back to our homes. Terrorists will not stop if we left every islamic country. They will continue until they reach their goals, die, or realize that it is better to not attack us than it is to attack us. So nobody is fighting in Iraq, say, becaues the U.S. is occupying Iraq? Not a motivator whatsoever? Especially considering that the resistance has been called self sufficient without any outside support, by some of the best intelligence in America. Those fighting in Iraq see themselves as trying to liberate themselves from an occupying superpower. This time and age, we see ourselvs as Great Britain. Wake up and recognize just who we are fighting. Comparing the American Revolution to the islamic terrorist's war is a slap to the face to those who fought for the nation which has done more good for the world in the past 231 years than all other nations combined. Its not like Britain, Canada, France, Russia, the Soviet Union, and The U.N., had any vital (vital = pivotal) roles in things like WWI and WWII, and eliminating smallpox. I mean America is so darn awesome (as I hear from you) that they could've done those first two things without any help from Western Europe. It's not like there were any pivotal battles like Normandy or Vimy Ridge in those wars that had troops from any other nation. That's a fact, jack, and no cute little "Fun Fact" comments comparing us to terrorists are going to change it. It may sound funny and ironic, but it couldn't be further from the truth. But, don't take my word for it. Go out and test things for yourself. Try this: Pick any US city, stand on the street corner, and scream out "I Believe that Jesus is God!". It's not like you could do that in Canada, or Britain, or France, Or Germany, Or Poland, Or Russia, Or Zimbabwe, or Australia, or.... You get the point. Then, pick a city freindly to islamic terrorism like Tehran, Kandahar, Damascus, or any like city and do the same. Come back and let us know how it worked out, ok? Peace, t. Of course everything every other nation has done combined can't compare to America. No universal healthcare, because thats Satanic trying to cure the sick. No U.N. Food program that feeds tens of million of people a year, Socialism is the devil. Thats what I call blind patriotism. Emphasis on the blind. Life is so good in China and Cuba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckthesystem Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,706 Topics Per Day: 0.26 Content Count: 3,386 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1955 Share Posted November 1, 2007 This phrase is what seals it for me: until he agreed to talk. You know, if it works on a terrorist and saves lives, I could care less if it's torture or not. To me, there is not a choice between the comfort of a terrorist or the life of a potential innocent victim of his actions. So you believe very much in "selective morality"? And do you believe that Mat. 25.40 ("......Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me") doesn't apply to anyone you label a "terrorist"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckthesystem Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,706 Topics Per Day: 0.26 Content Count: 3,386 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1955 Share Posted November 1, 2007 And so it is, IF--AND THIS IS A REALLY BIG "IF"--if you have captured an honorable soldier in his required uniform, fighting under his standard, AS PER THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS. These filthy terrorist vermin who hide among, and thereby endanger innocent civilians, do NOT HAVE, and DO NOT DESERVE the protections afforded to honorable soldiers! These are the lowest, dirtiest, most malevolent pieces of human scum we have ever had to fight! Even the NAZI 'wolf-packs' after WWII usually operated in their uniforms and in such ways as to attempt to minimize innocent civilian casualties. edited by moderator) That's it Leonard, reduce some you don't like to "less than human" "filthy terrorist vermin" and you can justify to yourself anything horrible that you want to do to them. I would hate to have offended you and be at the mercy of your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckthesystem Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,706 Topics Per Day: 0.26 Content Count: 3,386 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1955 Share Posted November 1, 2007 This phrase is what seals it for me: until he agreed to talk. You know, if it works on a terrorist and saves lives, I could care less if it's torture or not. To me, there is not a choice between the comfort of a terrorist or the life of a potential innocent victim of his actions. Read: The ends justify the means? Yes. Yes according to man's law, or according to God's law? How many lives do you want to save? I think God would approve. Quote "I think God would approve" - you know I think Heinrich Himmler probably said, or at least thought, that too. Funny that, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckthesystem Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,706 Topics Per Day: 0.26 Content Count: 3,386 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1955 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I'm not trying to say that we were as bad as Islamic terrorists, nor am I trying to justify their actions. But I AM trying to say that they are human, and just like us, have reasons for their actions. Are their actions extreme? Absolutely. Are their actions violent and horrible? Absolutely. Does this mean they deserve inhumane treatment, or that we don't need to give them basic human rights? Not in my mind. Let's make no mistake; they aren't being terrorists for kicks, and they aren't doing it because they are evil. They believe that they are resisting an evil superpower that is oppressing their god. Now I understand that what they are doing is very misguided, and their actions can be evil. But imagine we were put in a situation where we authentically were being oppressed by an evil superpower. Wouldn't it make more sense to act more radically in opposition of this superpower? I don't think it would justify violence, but I could certainly be more convinced to commit more radical actions in order to damage this system of oppression. Again, I'm not saying we are this evil power, but in their minds we are, and that's all that matters. Now, looking back at torture, don't you think it makes things worse? I feel that treating them like dogs is not a good way to make them stop with their violence. To sum it up, if we are going to end the hate and the death, we need to get to the root of the problem: why are they doing this? If we can't answer and correct the why, things aren't going to stop. But a good start would be to treat them like human beings, even when they are caught and incarcerated. We know how to win wars. We have done it in the past. We need to quit being Politically correct and fight to win. Ask General Sherman how to win a war. Even though I do not like him, (I am a Southerner) he was the best military tactitioner to ever walk the face of this planet. He understood how to win a war. In summation, his theory was to fight the army of the enemy only when you have to. Spend 90% of your time and resources breaking the will of the people to fight against you. When he was told Hood's army was escaping to Tennessee, he said I will give him rations to get there if he needs them. Sherman's target was the people enabling the army. Break the will of the people to field an army; the army will soon cease to exist. Oh I get it! You are saying that it is "politically correct" not to practice torture or treat people like human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckthesystem Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,706 Topics Per Day: 0.26 Content Count: 3,386 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1955 Share Posted November 1, 2007 And so it is, IF--AND THIS IS A REALLY BIG "IF"--if you have captured an honorable soldier in his required uniform, fighting under his standard, AS PER THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS. These filthy terrorist vermin who hide among, and thereby endanger innocent civilians, do NOT HAVE, and DO NOT DESERVE the protections afforded to honorable soldiers! These are the lowest, dirtiest, most malevolent pieces of human scum we have ever had to fight! Even the NAZI 'wolf-packs' after WWII usually operated in their uniforms and in such ways as to attempt to minimize innocent civilian casualties. (edited by moderator) You bring up a point that most are conveniently forgetting. If you are a terrorist, fighting in civilian clothes, you have absolutely no rights under the Geneva Convention. Terrorists have no rights whatsoever under the convention. hr. just so I get this absolutely right. Do you believe that anyone who is not covered by the Geneva convention, and you claim to be a "terrorist", is fair game for being tortured? And of course these people are not entitled to being treated with basic humanity? If this is the case, look out any diplomats, or civilian staff working for other powers, you may be labelled a "terrorist" and tortured! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kat8585 Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,360 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 7,866 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1946 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Oh I get it! You are saying that it is "politically correct" not to practice torture or treat people like human beings. It's actually "politically correct" to coddle terrorists. We must treat them so good they will see no need to talk, we musn't offend them in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts