Books of the bible

[John Bernall]

That is an impressive list of Scriptures, which I shall keep for study purposes.

i certainly hope it wasn't tooOOOooo long, after i had posted it, i said, "Oh my, that's alot!" lol

Just why were these not included in the OT canon (set befort New Testament times) I have not a clue.

the main reason these weren't added to the old testament canon, as far as Judaism is concerned, is that they were written after Malachi's time (i think), who was considered the last prophet to speak for God. everything else was simply considered commentary or expoundings upon ancient texts of the time. however, it SEEMS (and i stress SEEMS) that many of them were considered Holy Writ in the time of Mashi'ach. the Qumran sect, aka the Essense, held many of them in high regard, particularly the Apocalyptic writings and the older works such as the Book of Jubilees, Enoch, the testimony of the 12 patriarchs, the Wisdom Writings like Sirach and Wisdom of Solomon, as well as others. and these were also considered Holy Writ by many, though not all, of the Pharisees.

However, it appears, from your list, that the salient points in these books (points God wanted us to know about) were obviously contained within the writings that made up the New Testament canon. In my post, I was dealing with the pseudo books that were written when the books of the New Testament itself were being written. I am far more familiar with the New Testament and its history than I am of the Old Testiment and it's history. The only conclusion I can come to concerning why none of the "hidden" books, both Old Testament and New Testament are not in the separate canons is that God knows what He's doing and He, in spite of man, will place the books He wants in both canons.... As far as I am concerned, both the Old Testament canon and the New Testament canon are closed and need nothing added to them in our lifetime and beyond. The similiarities between the New Testament passages that seem to match passages in some of the "hidden books" could be put down as nothing more than the Holy Spirit telling a New Testament writer the same thing He had told a writer in the Old Testament period. However, the "hidden book" may have had many errors in it and only an occasional "nugget". Why God chose to keep these books out of the Scriptural record is His business, not mine.

i agree, God will keep his word pure, He says Himself that He holds His Word even above His own Name. i in no way advocate that the various apocryphal writings be considered equal in inspiration and authority as the present canon we now have. but on the other hand, many of them do contain history that is not recorded elsewhere in the Scriptures, such as 1+2 Maccabees. also, many of them tell us of their traditions that they as a people held to in certain periods, which can give us helpful information in study. as a group, i think the various books of the apocrypha have no place in the canon of Holy Writ, but are fine enough to be in their own, seperate book, like any other commentary.

By the way, Yochanan, I appreciate the Jewish point of view on topics like these. It provides insight that very few Gentiles possess and helps me see the point of view of those who actually wrote the Old Testament. I know that most of the writers in the New Testament were also Jewish (Luke I wonder about) but they, for the most part, were writing for Gentile readers, except of course for the Book of Hebrews, one of my favorite books.

Yeah, Hebrews is one of my favourites, next to John's record of the Gospel.

actually, their main, first audience were other Jews. as you read through the Book of Acts, Paul would go into the Synagogues first, and as a result of the Word, and their lack of acceptance, he would later end up in home fellowships, and not just in the homes of Gentiles, but also in the homes of Jews, particularly if the leadership did not accept the Mashi'ach. hence, "to the Jew first, and then also the Gentile". in saying this, he wasn't referring to the ministry of Mashi'ach as being "to the Jew first" although that is where He was. he was reflecting on the fact that he would go into the Synagogues of every town first, as was his custom.

Acts 17

"1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Synagogue of the Jews. 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying,

[stan4257]

Acts 15

"19 Therefore my ruling is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations, Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the Synagogues."

in this last part, James is telling them that these few rulings for the Gentiles will suffice for now as they learn further every Sabbath from the teaching of Moses in their Synagogues. some would say that this cannot be because Christ's sacrifice had done away with the teaching of Moses, but the contrary is moreso true. for what scriptures were there for them to be taught from if not the teaching of Moses that was read every Sabbath? and where? in the Synagogues.

A most helpful post, and one which I shall treasure.

I would, though, appreciate some more enlightenment on the two paragraphs quoted above, when you have the time.

The need to abstain from things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood is clear, though the last two Christians as a whole seem to ignore, but the extrapolation from this to believe these were only temporary basics from which the law of Moses would later become the norm escapes me.

Are you thinking that gentile Christians should eat kosher and obey the law of Moses, or does that only apply in your mind to Jews who have come to believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah?

[John Bernall]

Acts 15

"19 Therefore my ruling is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations, Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the Synagogues."

in this last part, James is telling them that these few rulings for the Gentiles will suffice for now as they learn further every Sabbath from the teaching of Moses in their Synagogues. some would say that this cannot be because Christ's sacrifice had done away with the teaching of Moses, but the contrary is moreso true. for what scriptures were there for them to be taught from if not the teaching of Moses that was read every Sabbath? and where? in the Synagogues.

A most helpful post, and one which I shall treasure.

I would, though, appreciate some more enlightenment on the two paragraphs quoted above, when you have the time.

Yochanan

The need to abstain from things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood is clear, though the last two Christians as a whole seem to ignore, but the extrapolation from this to believe these were only temporary basics from which the law of Moses would later become the norm escapes me.

Are you thinking that gentile Christians should eat kosher and obey the law of Moses, or does that only apply in your mind to Jews who have come to believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah?

Shalom,

sorry for the delay in responding.

Acts 15:19-20 - "Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the

Gentiles who are turning to God, but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted

by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood."

This Scripture is talking about new, immature, idol worshipping Gentile believers in

Messiah who are just turning to God. They expected the Gentiles to catch on to the rest of

God