Vickilynn Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 Sister, They don't think in terms of real world people and problems. All they seem to think about is their religion and traditions, and their out of context scriptures which they use to justify it. Shalom WSB, What ARE you talking about? The Word of G-d is the Word of G-d! It says plainly that women are to be in submission to men. You don't have to like ir or agree, but you'll have to take it up with G-d since He wrote it. Every time one of these women who suports the "woman is an second rate human being" doctrine goes and votes, they are a hypocrite, because they are exercising authority over men by choosing laws which will influence men, which they claim they aren't supposed to do. Oh man, is this ever funny. OK, let's deal with these one at a time: very time one of these women who suports the "woman is an second rate human being" doctrine I challenge you to produce a post where someone says women are second class. This is actually a STRAW MAN FALLACY of your own making. No one here has ever said that, for that is not the Scriptural position presented. You'll have to prove your accusation or it's a false accusation (which is a sin "bearing false witness.") Straw man. This is the fallacy of refuting a caricatured or extreme version of somebody's argument, rather than the actual argument they've made. Often this fallacy involves putting words into somebody's mouth by saying they've made arguments they haven't actually made, in which case the straw man argument is a veiled version of argumentum ad logicam. One example of a straw man argument would be to say, "Mr. Jones thinks that capitalism is good because everybody earns whatever wealth they have, but this is clearly false because many people just inherit their fortunes," when in fact Mr. Jones had not made the "earnings" argument and had instead argued, say, that capitalism gives most people an incentive to work and save. The fact that some arguments made for a policy are wrong does not imply that the policy itself is wrong. Every time one of these women who suports the "woman is an second rate human being" doctrine goes and votes, they are a hypocrite, because they are exercising authority over men by choosing laws which will influence men, which they claim they aren't supposed to do. Nope. You twisted the truth here. We are talking spiritual authority. That has nothing to do with voting and laws. Again, you are making stuff up. Please, stick to the facts! Also, as you said in another post, every time one of these women posts on a forum voicing their oppinion to a male poster, they are also a hypocrite, since they are "teaching and usurping authority over a man", according to their own interpretation of that scripture. They violate their own interpretation of the scripture in order to teach their interpretation of the scripture. Which in and of itself proves their position wrong and hypocritical. Nope. This is not a church and women posters are not in spiritual authority over men by posting. You really need to get the facts straight! You're exactly right. An example of this is when male preachers blame women for wearing "immodest clothing" and causing men to lust. Hello? translation: "God, its the woman's fault, she wore those jeans again!" Again, another false accusation and one that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 it is a biblical issue, I agree. But let's get real too. We can't be a pot and call the kettle black. We all miss the mark, that is what sin is. Shalom Jackie, the Bible IS for real life. You just have to apply it! WOW, someone has touched a nerve here! Remember, this is about Biblical issues. and so knowing that is supposed to correct the situation? We talk and talk and talk...starts sounding like the adults we would hear on the Charlie Brown shows after a while. We are talkers, are we shakers? Problems don't get solved by sitting around and talking about it. Hello? This is a DISCUSSION board. We discuss here dear. That doesn't mean we don't go out and change things in our lives, but we do talk about them here. I thought you knew that/ All of this order and stuff is lovely. We should all be so fortunate to get to have the life of the perfect woman depicted in Proverbs 31....but we don't. And while all these people are giving such great examples and basking in their ability to do so there are MILLIONS of people who don't get the pleasure. They have NO CHOICE! It reminds me of Paul speaking of the church taking care of the widows and the orphans. They put the words into action and I saw no examples in his writing that those who had perfect lives lord it over on those who did not. OK, so you have a personal ax to grind with Proverbs 21 women. I get it. However, your personal issues do not negate the truth from the Scriptures of how women are to live in the Messiah. Those are biblical issues too. Take care of those who have less and never make someone feel small or less than acceptable because they are unable to live up to the standards of others. What are you talking about now? We sit at our computers talking about how things should be and we widen our hems and do what we can to sit in the best seats and be noticed by our piety. OK, so are you talking about yourself here? Because you sure aren't talking to anyone I know. And since you aren't able to see on the other side of the computer monitor, I know you are trying to judge people you don't know! So ya, nerves get hit. I would imagine Christ's do to with the way His love is shown in places like these toward those who have less than picture perfect lives...... If you have a less-than-perfect life, why blame others? Take it to your G-d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie d Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,081 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/08/1967 Share Posted January 24, 2008 it is a biblical issue, I agree. But let's get real too. We can't be a pot and call the kettle black. We all miss the mark, that is what sin is. Shalom Jackie, the Bible IS for real life. You just have to apply it! WOW, someone has touched a nerve here! Remember, this is about Biblical issues. and so knowing that is supposed to correct the situation? We talk and talk and talk...starts sounding like the adults we would hear on the Charlie Brown shows after a while. We are talkers, are we shakers? Problems don't get solved by sitting around and talking about it. Hello? This is a DISCUSSION board. We discuss here dear. That doesn't mean we don't go out and change things in our lives, but we do talk about them here. I thought you knew that/ All of this order and stuff is lovely. We should all be so fortunate to get to have the life of the perfect woman depicted in Proverbs 31....but we don't. And while all these people are giving such great examples and basking in their ability to do so there are MILLIONS of people who don't get the pleasure. They have NO CHOICE! It reminds me of Paul speaking of the church taking care of the widows and the orphans. They put the words into action and I saw no examples in his writing that those who had perfect lives lord it over on those who did not. OK, so you have a personal ax to grind with Proverbs 21 women. I get it. However, your personal issues do not negate the truth from the Scriptures of how women are to live in the Messiah. Those are biblical issues too. Take care of those who have less and never make someone feel small or less than acceptable because they are unable to live up to the standards of others. What are you talking about now? We sit at our computers talking about how things should be and we widen our hems and do what we can to sit in the best seats and be noticed by our piety. OK, so are you talking about yourself here? Because you sure aren't talking to anyone I know. And since you aren't able to see on the other side of the computer monitor, I know you are trying to judge people you don't know! So ya, nerves get hit. I would imagine Christ's do to with the way His love is shown in places like these toward those who have less than picture perfect lives...... If you have a less-than-perfect life, why blame others? Take it to your G-d. you remind me of a pharisee Vickilynn..and I apply the bible to every day life. I have taken it to my God and He has let me know that I am not to let anyone back me into a corner or force me to shut up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 you remind me of a pharisee Vickilynn.. Shalom Jackie, In all sincerity, are you a born-again Christian? Do you believe the Bible to be G-d's Word and perfect truth? If so, you can't blame others for your troubles and justify your actions by your situations and get "boiling mad" and attack people who disagree with you. The point is, the Bible says women are called to be in the role G-d created for them. That is what this thread is about. If you go back to the OP, read the Scriptures posted and show us Scripturally why they cannot be the truth if you disagree with them. Not personal opinions and false accusations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 You are right about one thing though, real women should get to stay home and raise their children. Especially those who have sons so they can be raised to be real men who take proper care of the woman they decide to marry and the children they rear. Ones that haven't been so coddled by their mother that they think that is what a woman was placed on the earth to do-bow and scrape. Dear Jackie d, You might be surprised to find that I agree with you, (minus the bitterness). I do think your point is valid. I want to respond in more depth in regard to it, but I'll have to get back in the morning when I have more time. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 WOW, no one said that women couldn't do the same job as men. Although, I would surmise that if women stayed at home with their children there would not be the problems we have with children and there would not be so many men out of work, unable to support their families. But that's for another thread. Proverbs 31:10-31 you are kidding right? especially the part about women staying home so that men can work....do you live in the US? Have kids? ever been divorced or knocked up a woman and then left her behind with the kids?...should that woman stay home too, so that the man who left her desolate can have a job yet fail to pay child support? you bet this thread is about order. And it is funny to see that some things don't change. Adam blamed God and Eve for his sin, and man still does the same today. You are right about one thing though, real women should get to stay home and raise their children. Especially those who have sons so they can be raised to be real men who take proper care of the woman they decide to marry and the children they rear. Ones that haven't been so coddled by their mother that they think that is what a woman was placed on the earth to do-bow and scrape. You think I am a man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie d Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,081 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/08/1967 Share Posted January 24, 2008 you remind me of a pharisee Vickilynn.. Shalom Jackie, In all sincerity, are you a born-again Christian? Do you believe the Bible to be G-d's Word and perfect truth? If so, you can't blame others for your troubles and justify your actions by your situations and get "boiling mad" and attack people who disagree with you. The point is, the Bible says women are called to be in the role G-d created for them. That is what this thread is about. If you go back to the OP, read the Scriptures posted and show us Scripturally why they cannot be the truth if you disagree with them. Not personal opinions and false accusations. I am aware of what the point is and I made it perfectly clear to those who are listening to me that I would love to be the woman in Proverbs 31 as I am sure many would. as with many things going on in these conversations (of which I take responsibility too) there is a great degree of not truly listening to what the other person is trying to say or even caring for that matter. Scripture is great and I read daily and live by it to the best of my abilities, I am very aware of the principles that has been written out for us to live by. But for people to expect that everyone can or to post in a tone that implies we are less than good because we are not able to, is wrong and needs to stop. blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 You think I am a man! You seem to get that a lot. Great thread Suzanne, but I think I will set it out 'till the heat dies down. I KNOW, isn't it GREAT! Anonymity is like a warm blanket! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 I am aware of what the point is and I made it perfectly clear to those who are listening to me that I would love to be the woman in Proverbs 31 as I am sure many would. Shalom Jackie, I'm sure we ALL would. I don't know how many real women can say that they ARE that woman. In fact, I see the Proverbs 31 woman in different seasons of her life, not all at once. as with many things going on in these conversations (of which I take responsibility too) there is a great degree of not truly listening to what the other person is trying to say or even caring for that matter. Please stop trying to judge other's hearts. You don't know what people care about. Scripture is great and I read daily and live by it to the best of my abilities, I am very aware of the principles that has been written out for us to live by. Scripture is great? Scripture is breathed out by G-d and is His holy Word to us. But for people to expect that everyone can or to post in a tone that implies we are less than good because we are not able to, is wrong and needs to stop. No one has done anything like that Jackie. Sounds like you have misread the words and assumed what you cannot know. Let it go dear and just focus on the Scriptures, 'K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 Vickilynn: You are kidding right? Shalom WSB, Kidding? Me???? Actually, I wasn't kidding. The Bible plainly states men are the authority over women. The Bible plainly says that there is neither male nor female. Oh, WSB! You know that's not what it says. There is no difference in salvation between male and female for salvation. We are not all ONE gender! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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