Out of Order?

[Guest Biblicist]

to no one in particular

What's so funny?

[jackie d]

to no one in particular

What's so funny?

all Jackie has to do is confess the rebellion,ask for forgiveness and thats it. Why are things so cmplicated here. Was she suppose to be submitted to a husband that did not love her as christ loves the church??

I'm laughing because I am a poor communicator and a very poor discerner of people's words online....And most of what I write about has everything to do with what if's for myself and other people and are not necessarily my personal issues (some are, most aren't)....anyway, I just found that statement "all Jackie has to do is confess the rebellion" incredibly funny.

[Vickilynn]

One of the things I've noticed...Submission to the Scriptures seems to be lacking. Not just here in this forum but all over the world, on the internet, and in person.

I've had people tell me not to "quote scripture at them", "put God in a box" [still trying to figure out what that means], I'm sure we've all heard the phrase "Too heavenly minded to be any earthly good".

What I don't understand is, when someone, a believer, comes to you, a believer, for help, information or just general advise and you give them the Word of God, they blanch, balk or run the other way, worse case scenereo, they yell at you for being insensative? Our greatest gift is the Word of God. It's a love letter. Not a book of rules and regulations, or stories. It's a precious book, a tool, a gift, a guide for life.

I love my God and His Word. I read it all the time, looking for new things he has to teach me, or tell me. So when I share the Word with someone about their problem it's because I know that more than any other advise I can give them, God's Word is the most loving thing I could say to them in their time of need.

Shalom Bib,

AMEN AMEN AMEN! G-d's Word is how we are to live, not situational ethics.

For example, Patricia's question (not picking on you Patricia, just using your question as an example)

Was she suppose to be submitted to a husband that did not love her as christ loves the church??

Now someone who knows and lives G-d's Word would know that the Scriptures tell us clearly what this wife is to do. Yet, in our FLESH, we don't want to hear it, so we try to justify escape clauses.

"Well, he doesn't love me as Messiah loves the church, so all bets are off!"

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. We are not accountable on the "group plan", but INDIVIDUALLY. We answer for our own submission to G-d's Word, walking it out, even if it's hard.

We are not gonna stand before Jesus one say and He ask why I didn't obey the WORD and submit to my husband and I'll be able to say "Well, he didn't love me as You love the church." The truth is, the WORD tells us we need to submit to our husbands and the WORD comes from Jesus. We are obeying JESUS when we obey His Word.

And to teach women that it's OK not to obey the Word if they have a husband who is not perfect? Well, the WORD has a lot to say about that too, we women should read it before we post that it's OK to disobey G-d and His Word.

[Guest Biblicist]

AMEN!!

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. We are not accountable on the "group plan", but INDIVIDUALLY.

That is a funny line. Not to discredit everything else you said but even my husband said, that is funny!

AMEN!!

[jackie d]

One of the things I've noticed...Submission to the Scriptures seems to be lacking. Not just here in this forum but all over the world, on the internet, and in person.

I've had people tell me not to "quote scripture at them", "put God in a box" [still trying to figure out what that means], I'm sure we've all heard the phrase "Too heavenly minded to be any earthly good".

What I don't understand is, when someone, a believer, comes to you, a believer, for help, information or just general advise and you give them the Word of God, they blanch, balk or run the other way, worse case scenereo, they yell at you for being insensative? Our greatest gift is the Word of God. It's a love letter. Not a book of rules and regulations, or stories. It's a precious book, a tool, a gift, a guide for life.

I love my God and His Word. I read it all the time, looking for new things he has to teach me, or tell me. So when I share the Word with someone about their problem it's because I know that more than any other advise I can give them, God's Word is the most loving thing I could say to them in their time of need.

Shalom Bib,

AMEN AMEN AMEN! G-d's Word is how we are to live, not situational ethics.

For example, Patricia's question (not picking on you Patricia, just using your question as an example)

Was she suppose to be submitted to a husband that did not love her as christ loves the church??

Now someone who knows and lives G-d's Word would know that the Scriptures tell us clearly what this wife is to do. Yet, in our FLESH, we don't want to hear it, so we try to justify escape clauses.

"Well, he doesn't love me as Messiah loves the church, so all bets are off!"

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. We are not accountable on the "group plan", but INDIVIDUALLY. We answer for our own submission to G-d's Word, walking it out, even if it's hard.

We are not gonna stand before Jesus one say and He ask why I didn't obey the WORD and submit to my husband and I'll be able to say "Well, he didn't love me as You love the church." The truth is, the WORD tells us we need to submit to our husbands and the WORD comes from Jesus. We are obeying JESUS when we obey His Word.

And to teach women that it's OK not to obey the Word if they have a husband who is not perfect? Well, the WORD has a lot to say about that too, we women should read it before we post that it's OK to disobey G-d and His Word.

Now before you think that I am disagreeing with you entirely let me just say that I do believe that women AND men should perform their roles as commanded. However there ARE ethical issues that do come into play and to tell every woman out there that they need to stay in a relationship regardless of what is happening is not only wrong (IMHO) but it can be physically and spiritually deadly for that woman. Often times the problems that can lead to leaving a relationship or a woman "rebelling" against the husband and God's commandments are not discovered until after the binding contract of marriage has been made.

I can tell you this much, IF I had a husband and he decided that he was going to jump off a cliff and I was to follow him....I sure wouldn't follow. We are to yeild no one said to be fools.

[tsth]

Yes, but I think that has already been established, more than once, so I'd hate for the discussion to get "off topic" due to THAT issue, which is something else on it's own. We are not talking about a husband in sin, asking his wife to follow along. Nor, are we talking about a woman and children who are in danger in their own homes.

(That's normally what will get the focus of "order" off topic, is, it becomes a different discussion trying to clarify the above. Just so you can be assured, we've already established that.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Vickilynn]

Yes, but I think that has already been established, more than once, so I'd hate for the discussion to get "off topic" due to THAT issue, which is something else on it's own. We are not talking about a husband in sin, asking his wife to follow along. Nor, are we talking about a woman and children who are in danger in their own homes.

Shalom Suzanne,

Exactly!! This has been dealt with over and over and it not what we're discussing here. Thanks for clarifying.

[jackie d]

Yes, but I think that has already been established, more than once, so I'd hate for the discussion to get "off topic" due to THAT issue, which is something else on it's own. We are not talking about a husband in sin, asking his wife to follow along. Nor, are we talking about a woman and children who are in danger in their own homes.

Shalom Suzanne,

Exactly!! This has been dealt with over and over and it not what we're discussing here. Thanks for clarifying.

pardon me ladies, I guess I did it again .

[Guest Biblicist]

I can't tell you how much I have enjoyed discussing this topic with all of you.

Submission is a big deal in my life. Breaking the cycle of submission [or lack of] in my family has been such a struggle for me for 20 years. It's a very emotional and stressful topic for me. But I have really appreciated the input I've gotten here and I just wanted to say Thanks! I think this is what Paul meant in Titus 2, not that y'all are older than me, but likely, more mature a Christian.

I want so very much to be a submissive wife to my husband. My mother, who is a Christian, does not believe in true, total, submission to men. She does not believe in "leave and cleave" not for her daughters. She never submitted to my father, even after he received Christ. She has more often than not, tried to undermine my husband's authority in my family, through me. In trying to "honor" my mother I have caused a great deal of hurt and upset in my marriage because the lines between Mother and Husband have been so blurred for me.

She has asked me, numerous times, to leave my husband so I can come live with her. And would support me if I did so. Even though that is totally against God's Word. Standing up to her is not my strong suit. So instead of telling her that her idea is WRONG, I make excuses...I feel week. Truly, most times, she still treats me like her teen aged daughter and my husband is simply my boyfriend.

So if I have been harsh in my answers or seemingly angry about people's responses, it's because I have seen what it can do to a man, for the wife to constantly treat her husband as if he does not matter. As if he is just there to supply money so she can be supported in the manner which she wises to be supported. Or as the man who took my baby away from me!! Please forgive me.

I appreciate all of you so much. And I love you in the LORD as my sisters.

[jackie d]

I can't tell you how much I have enjoyed discussing this topic with all of you.

Submission is a big deal in my life. Breaking the cycle of submission [or lack of] in my family has been such a struggle for me for 20 years. It's a very emotional and stressful topic for me. But I have really appreciated the input I've gotten here and I just wanted to say Thanks! I think this is what Paul meant in Titus 2, not that y'all are older than me, but likely, more mature a Christian.

I want so very much to be a submissive wife to my husband. My mother, who is a Christian, does not believe in true, total, submission to men. She does not believe in "leave and cleave" not for her daughters. She never submitted to my father, even after he received Christ. She has more often than not, tried to undermine my husband's authority in my family, through me. In trying to "honor" my mother I have caused a great deal of hurt and upset in my marriage because the lines between Mother and Husband have been so blurred for me.

She has asked me, numerous times, to leave my husband so I can come live with her. And would support me if I did so. Even though that is totally against God's Word. Standing up to her is not my strong suit. So instead of telling her that her idea is WRONG, I make excuses...I feel week. Truly, most times, she still treats me like her teen aged daughter and my husband is simply my boyfriend.

So if I have been harsh in my answers or seemingly angry about people's responses, it's because I have seen what it can do to a man, for the wife to constantly treat her husband as if he does not matter. As if he is just there to supply money so she can be supported in the manner which she wises to be supported. Or as the man who took my baby away from me!! Please forgive me.

I appreciate all of you so much. And I love you in the LORD as my sisters.

I understand Bib and I apologize too for as you've seen there are very real and painful issues surrounding how I view this topic and have reacted to all of you. And I have to also remember not to put others in the box I live(d) in because not every husband is abusive and there are fortunate people out there who have been given the gift of marriages worth sticking out and having the ability to submit to them....And it is hard, for me having been not just the wife of abusers but the child of abusers, to think that someone might possibly consider counseling another to stay where there is very obvious danger for all parties concerned.

and a right back at ya