AntiChrist Islam's Awaited Messiah

[Mazra]

Hi Todd,

You have the seven empires of the beast. My only difference would be that I see the 7th as the Muslims as a whole from the seventh century to today, and not the later forming and now defunct Ottomans. In Daniel Chapter 2 the last empire is seen as a varied people and seldom united, the Muslims are Arabs, Turks, Perians, Africans, Asians, and all sorts of varied peoples and they epitomize the concept of seldom united. In Revelations 17 it says that five empires had fallen, and by the time of the Apostle John five empires that conquered Israel had come and gone as you noted (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persians and Greeks). The prophecy says that one is, which was the empire that existed when Revelations was written(Rome). And one is yet to come, and when it does will remain for a little while. I would say the Muslims have remained for a little while, over 1300 years.

The English or even the Crusaders can not be figured in the equation. The seven empires of the beast are all spirits of beast or anti-Christ that stand against the G-d of Israel. The Crusaders and the English, though often misguided, does not have the spirit of the beast in them. The English Mandate to rule the region was often tenous, and it was Britain's desire to end the relationship that lead to the matter being settled by the United Nations, and hence the formation of the State of Isreal. All the other seven empires were pagan or in the case of the monotheistic Muslims stand against Israel. The Romans would convert to Christianity much later, but in the beginning they were definitely pagan.

I am glad you mentioned the Mongols. It was interesting that they would be stopped before conquering the Holy Land.

I have enjoyed reading your post. I do believe though that the eighth king of the beast is an actual man and not a representation of the fallen Ottomans.

Revelations 13:18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

This verse leads me to believe it is a man, a horrible individual that will be seen as the Muslim's Messiah. I beleve he is alive and plotting his rise to power as you read this post. I truly hope I am wrong about this.

Shalom.

Mazra

P.S. For what it is worth, I do not believe in the least that the monotheistic Muslims worship the same G-d as Jews and Christians.

Edited January 30, 2008 by Mazra

[Todd the Mut]

I would say the Muslims have remained for a little while, over 1300 years.

While this is true, the beast and the image of Daniel were defined territorial empires e.g. Egyptians to the Romans. Rome was in control at the time of the Revelation. Germany sacked Western Rome, but the Roman Empire still lived on and ruled from Turkey for almost 1000 more years after the fall of the west. It was the Ottoman Empire that took out Rome, and the eastern part and Rome as an empire ceased to exist. It was then that Muslims had well defined empire called the Ottoman Empire. It is this empire that Osama Bin Laden refers to when he says 'Nation of Islam". Therefore I believe Ottoman was the 7th empire spoken of in Revelations. Revelations specifically says the 8th empire, the Antichrist empire would arise out of the seven. I take this to mean out of the 7th which consisted of much of the lands of the first six excluding most of the Western Roman empire except North Africa was part of the Western empire and is today without exception Muslim.

Now if my theory is correct, in order for the Ottoman Empire to completely recover from the wound in it's head of the dismantling back in 1922, the secular government of Turkey will have to become an Islamic government. I don't know if you follow what is happening in Turkey in the news, but I do. The secular government there is living on borrowed time right now. I imagine within the next few years, it will be Islamic ruled by Sharia law. I also believe that it will be then when Islam institutes a Caliph (Pope of Islam). I think that Caliph will will be the Mahdi aka Antichrist. I think he will be a Turk, for the Bible says that Satan's throne is in Pergamum, which is located in modern day Turkey.

Rev 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write; These things says he who has the sharp sword with two edges;

Rev 2:13 I know your works and where you dwell, even where Satan's throne is: and you hold fast my name, and have not denied my faith, even in those days when Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells.

Only time will tell if I am right. But I think that I am. I agree that Antichrist is called beast, as are the empires. Revelation 17 to me speaks of empires simply because it described 7 empires before the 8th empire. Rev 17:11 "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition." The Islamic empire, the Muslim lands are what the bible foretells of destruction and going down into perdition.

Yes the crusaders, though I believe off their rocker as there was a famine of the word of God back then and they were ignorant, were not Antichrist in spirit, for they did not deny the Sonship of Jesus, nor his death, burial, and resurrection, or the trinity. Islam denies vehemently these foundations of Christianity. Islam is definitely Antichrist even though they proclaim a respect for Isa (Muslim Jesus). Isa to them is a radical Muslim who will enforce Sharia law upon the nations the Mahdi/Antichrist controls, and is NOT the Jesus of the bible.

When the Dajjal comes, (Muslim Antichrist) he will be doing what we would envision Jesus doing when he comes like causing it to rain because of the 3 year drought, causing fruit trees to grow, convincing Muslims to renounce Islam and follow him, ransacking Medina etc.

Yes the Christian good guys are the Muslim bad guys, and the Muslim bad guys are the Christian good guys.

I have enjoyed your post as well.

Free eBook "Antichrist Islam's Awaited Messiah"

http://ToddSumrall.com

[Mazra]

Hi Todd,

Let me first say again, I really enjoy reading your post. I would say overall we are more allied in the matters of Bible Prophecy than opposed. Our differences may be really inconsequential, as both of us see the Muslims, in one form or another as the final empire of the beast.

I believe that all Bible Prophecy is based around Israel or the Jewish peoples. I believe Daniels prophecies, including the prophecy concerning Nebuchadnezzer's statue was symbolic of empires that directly effected Israel generally and maybe Jerusalem specifically, since afterall Daniel was Jewish and likely witnessed the fall of Jerusalem. The fall of Constantinople by the Ottomans is not an event that effected Israel or the Jewish people directly. The Muslims already had control of Jerusalem by this time.

I have found the symbolism in Daniel Chapter 2 to be extremely precise. For instance, look at the Head of Gold representing Nebuchadnezzer's empire. King Nebuchadnezzer was a despot that ruled with absolute authority. His Neo-Babylonian empire was lusterous like gold and included such fantastic edifices as the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. But like gold is a brittle metal, so too would Nebuchadnezzer's empire be lasting less than one hundred years. The Medo-Persian empire's monarchy did not have Nebuchadnezzer's granduer, but like silver is a stronger metal than gold, the empire would last longer, around 200 years. Alexander's Greek empire, though fractured, would last longer than the Persians; and not unlike Bronze is stronger than Silver, this empire would last over 250 years. The Legs of Iron (Rome) ruled with great power and strength, and as Iron is stronger than all the previous elements, the Roman Republic's rule over Israel was around 700 years. In each of these changes in metal it was a clean cut, gold to silver, silver to bronze, bronze to iron. But at the feet it was not a clean cut, it was a blend of Clay with the Iron, a precise prophecy that the Iron (Rome) would not come to an end when the clay (Muslims) conquered Jerusalem in 632 AD.

It is interesting to note G-d's choice of clay for the Muslims. Clay is a brittle worthless substance, yet when we excavate archaelogical sites one of the few things we find is clay pottery shards. It is an incredibly durable substance. The Muslims have ruled over some or all of Israel for over 1300 years, nearly as long as all the previous empires in Nebuchadnezzer's statue combined. But this empire of clay has been mostly weak and fractured. It would have some iron-like strength in it with the Ottomans or the Abbassid dynasty during the Crusades. And it is likely a new but brief Muslim empire will rise, but I doubt they will call themselves the Ottomans. Osama bin Laden is an Arab and was born in Riyahd, Saudi Arabia. The Ottomans were Turks. If Osama bin Laden, who would make a good choice as the man of perdition, form a ten nation Muslim confederacy, I believe it would have a more Arab Islamic oriented name. It is interesting to note that many believe Osama bin Laden to be dead. If he does show up again, it could very easily be seen as him coming back from a fatal wound, a prophecy (Rev. 13:3) that could be fulfilled in a dual way with Osama bin Laden and the rise of a new Muslim empire.

It is likely we will not agree on these finer points, as I am sure you have as much invested in your Bible Prophecy study as I have in mine, but at least, and this is very important, we are both on the same page.

Shalom and May Yeshua Bless You,

Mazra

BTW-I like the "Bush Read Your Bible" on your website. Ever since Rice became Bushs' Secretary of State the foreign policy concerning Israel has really gone bad. Land for peace does not work with a people that does not know the meaning of peace.

Edited January 30, 2008 by Mazra

[Todd the Mut]

Hi Todd,

The fall of Constantinople by the Ottomans is not an event that effected Israel or the Jewish people directly. The Muslims already had control of Jerusalem by this time.

It didn't affect the Jewish people directly but it did affect God's chosen land and Jerusalem was "Trodden Down of the Gentiles" at this time by the Ottomans and prior by Muslims who formed the Ottoman empire. I don't believe the diaspora was relevant as to "who is who" concerning the seventh empire. As far as God's accounting of empires goes, once the Jews were gone, though not completely, for Tel Aviv was a major Jewish center during the diaspora, it was the chosen land that was relevant.

There is no doubt as you have stated, the prophecies of the end-times revolve around the nation of Israel. This is why there is so much private interpretation that it is all about the west/pope/Europe etc. No it's not. It's about Israel and her enemies, the countries that surround her and want to destroy her, who today are all Muslim.

Iron (Rome) would not come to an end when the clay (Muslims) conquered Jerusalem in 632 AD.

But Iron Rome did come to an end when the Ottoman empire was established and the Muslim rule had a defined territorial empire. The conquest in Jerusalem was just part of the overall Ottoman conquest. They

but I doubt they will call themselves the Ottomans.

They probably will call themselves the nation of Islam as Osama Bin Laden has stated. I don't think it will be Ottoman either. Just a revival of Islamic control over the former Ottoman empire lands under a Caliph. Muslims look back to the Ottoman Empire as the glory days of Islam, the so-called Golden years. They consider the Ottoman empire as the Nation of Islam that has been groaning over 80 years according to Osama Bin Laden's own words.

Osama bin Laden is an Arab and was born in Riyahd, Saudi Arabia. The Ottomans were Turks. If Osama bin Laden, who would make a good choice as the man of perdition, form a ten nation Muslim confederacy,

Muslims are looking for a Caliph. They are looking for a guy that will unite the Muslims and all nations under Islam and Sharia law. The position of Caliph has been vacant since the last Padishah Emperor of the Ottoman Empire was deposed in 1924. The title has been defunct since the Republic of Turkey abolished the Ottoman caliphate in 1924. In other words, since 1924 the position of Caliph has been waiting for a Man on Horseback, or the man on horseback as described in the Bible. Antichrist.

As I was researching this I learned something very interesting about Osama bin Ladens beliefs. He sees himself as the Caliph to rule Islam. The Quran allows the Caliphate to be taken by force. What he did 9/11 caused him to trump the religious card in Islam. Thus setting himself up to rule Islam. Everything Osama is doing is to bring about the Caliphate.

Al-qaeda is not simply terrorizing the west just because we happen to be in Islamic lands, or because of our democracy and freedom, but rather according to what he believes Jihad must continue until every person is under Islamic control and there is a Caliph who is the arm of Allah on earth. He has acted out the Quranic duty of jihad in a way they never dared

Edited January 31, 2008 by Todd the Mut

[Rick-Parker]

One more final note. I see this "new end-time yet old" teaching coming into the church over the last year or so. People are starting to wake up to the idea that the way we have been taught prophecy has been wrong. I think the reason for this is because much of the end-time prophecy was sealed until the time of the end. It's no body's fault really, but for many letting go of old false teachings of "It's the Pope" or "the West" etc is really hard for them. Yet others, like myself when I first started seeing this, a light bulb came on and it was easy to see. Though I never really bought into the traditional teachings anyway. It was to hard to see a lot of what others were teaching.

This is awesome stuff, folks. I know that I for one, up until 9/11, believed that the Antichrist would would be a pope from the CC. But as Islamo-fascism has come out of the closet, I have been talking to others about this very subject and it being the religion of Satan to deceive the world. Thanks for you guys' hard work.

Rick

[Mazra]

Hi Todd,

[quote name='Todd the Mut

Edited February 2, 2008 by Mazra

[Mazra]

This is awesome stuff, folks. I know that I for one, up until 9/11, believed that the Antichrist would would be a pope from the CC. But as Islamo-fascism has come out of the closet, I have been talking to others about this very subject and it being the religion of Satan to deceive the world. Thanks for you guys' hard work.

Rick

Hi Rick,

Thank you very much for your words. They provide a great deal of encouragement.

Shalom,

Mazra

[Todd the Mut]

Hi Todd,

[quote name='Todd the Mut

Edited February 2, 2008 by Todd the Mut

[Todd the Mut]

I really do hope Osama is dead! But there is this feeling in my spirit that makes my stomach turn that he is not. His role as the leader of the 9/11 attacks would put him in the fulfillment another Bible Prophecy. (Something I would be more than happy to discuss further if you like.)

Ok I'll bite. What do you see?

[Mazra]

HI Todd,

Wow! That was a quick reply.

[quote name='Todd the Mut

Edited February 2, 2008 by Mazra