God speaks to unbelievers

[charlesj]

I have read what you have stated, but your point has not yet been made. The fact is no one can even hear the Gospel without God conditioning their heart to hear it. It is by God and God alone that the revelation of the Son comes in. If God did not speak to unbelievers then how is it we now believe? I will stick to this point.

Honestly, I dont know what you are talking about with the rest of your statements, so I will wait to respond if the Lord so requires one. All I can add is that God spoke to me, not in some audible voice or vision, but directly to my heart. It was by Him that I came to truly entrust myself to Him.

Hello again:

Where does it say in the Bible that God conditions the heart? This idea comes from John Calvin (1509-1564), not the Bible. Most church groups teach

the doctrines of Calvin. (Some don't even know it)

Jesus brought the revelation of the Lord to the world and now it's recorded for our benefit. (Bible)

There is only ONE way that one comes to the Lord and that is through the Gospel. If one obeys the gospel, then they become a Christian and are added to the church (Acts 2:47).

According to Jesus, some will hear and nothing happens, some will take the Word and produce little and then the devil takes it away, some hear, receive the Word with joy, but because they have no root, they fall away, ...but some hear the Word and bring forth much fruit. (Luke 8:11ff)

You said you "...don't know what I'm talking about..." Are you a young Christian?

I get the idea that you think I am being ugly to you. I hope not.

your servant in the Messiah,

Semper Fi,

charlesj

[Mikeyjay]

Ac 2:17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.

I keep reading this and have come to the same conclusion. God does have a spirit relationship with those other than christians. I see different groups of people here:

1. Group 1: God pours his spirit out on ALL FLESH (Not Just Christians but ALL FLESH)
   
2. Group 2: Your sons and daughters will prophesy (speaking to God's people)
   
3. Group 3: Young men shall see visions (speaking to God's people)
   
4. Group 4: Old men shall dream dreams (speaking to God's people)
   

Why would ALL FLESH (human beings) be written if God didn't mean ALL? To me, this means that God can and will speak and talk with those other than Christians.

i disagree that these are different groups...this is a prophesy that He will pour out His Spirit on all flesh that they then may move in His Spirit...God pours His Spirit on ALL people it is then up to them to accept it and take up the mantle set before them.

[charlesj]

Ac 2:17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.

I keep reading this and have come to the same conclusion. God does have a spirit relationship with those other than christians. I see different groups of people here:

1. Group 1: God pours his spirit out on ALL FLESH (Not Just Christians but ALL FLESH)
   
2. Group 2: Your sons and daughters will prophesy (speaking to God's people)
   
3. Group 3: Young men shall see visions (speaking to God's people)
   
4. Group 4: Old men shall dream dreams (speaking to God's people)
   

Why would ALL FLESH (human beings) be written if God didn't mean ALL? To me, this means that God can and will speak and talk with those other than Christians.

i disagree that these are different groups...this is a prophesy that He will pour out His Spirit on all flesh that they then may move in His Spirit...God pours His Spirit on ALL people it is then up to them to accept it and take up the mantle set before them.

Hello MIke:

When you look at the text that is spoken on in Acts 2, you will find out that up until chapter 10 it is ALL Jewish. In other words, for the first 8 years, there

were nothing but Jews in the church. In the first two chapters, the apostles are spoken to and NOT some group 2100 years later, but to a group of Jews who

followed the Messiah in the first century. I shouldn't really say "Jews" as they were Christians. But to identify them rather than Gentiles, I called them Jews.

Of course, everything we have today came from the Jew. Jesus was a Jew, our bible is written by Jews etc. Thank the Lord for the Jews.

What brought you to the U.S.? My youngest son is about your age. I have two sons, one 39 & the other 34. Both are like their dad and involved in

computers. I am retired from IBM. (Field Engineer). My oldest son is a CEO for a very large communications company and the other works in the oil

field computers dept.

I read your profile, what does COC stand for? You can send me a pm if you want so not to tie this thread up. I will be out of town (fishing) for a week, but will answer you when I get back sometimes next week. My wife (Crystal) and I go to a state park a lot. I have a 27 ft trailer that I pull behind my truck

and we generally stay at least a week or so. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/findade...mustang_island/

Anyway, looking forward to hearing from you,

Your servant in Christ, (We call him Jesus, but most likely it should be Yeshua or Yahshua)

Semper Fi,

charlesj

Edited March 27, 2008 by charlesj

[~~ angelique ~~]

Hello ruck1:

There is no evidense in the New Covenant that the Lord will speak to an unbeliever besides Acts 10. We do have one case of the first Gentile convert (Cornileus), Acts 10, where he had a "vision" and an angel spoke to him. This was a special case where God is showing Peter (Jews) that the Gentiles were also to be included in New Covenant. Cornileus, an unbeliever, was told that his prayers were heard.

Peter, later, recaps what happened to the first Gentile convert to his brethren (Acts 15:7ff). Peter tells them what happened to "us" (Acts 2, Day of Pentecost) happened to them (Acts 10, Gentiles). This was the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the ONLY two places in the bible where baptism of Holy Spirit occurs.

Today, new covenant age, we have the bible in it's FULL revelation of God's Word. We don't need to listen for a voice, or prophecy etc. Unbelievers are

to hear the Word (Gospel) and that's the way they are "called" to the Lord. When the gospel (death, burial & resurrection of the Lord) is preached, one hears the "call" and will respond either in a negative way, or they will obey the gospel and become a Christian (2 Thes 2:14).

(There are only two ages mentioned in the bible, the O.T. age and the N.T. age. Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, neither in the age to come.

The "age" when this was written was in the O.T. age and the N.T. age was coming on them soon. "...the age to come."

Some "food for thought", with the two ages in mind, I would like to ask you, do you think every time you see "last days" or "latter days" this means the Christian age? If you look at the context where "last days" is used, think about when it's talking about. (I know this is not on this thread, so I won't say anymore.) Just curious on your thoughts.

We have many cases in the Old Covenant age where God spoke to unbelievers . The Hebrew writer tells us that God spoke in many ways (even with a donkey) during this period of time, but in these last days He speaks to us by His Son. (Heb 1:1ff). The Words of our Lord speak to us today through

the Bible. The new covenant was "sealed" with the death of His Son, Jesus the Christ. (Heb 9:16,17)

BTW, we call this the "new" covenant, but if you look at the Greek word that is translated "new" you will find that it's NOT the Greek word "neo" which

means "new," but is "kainos" which means "fresh." In Jer 31:31 the Lord says He is going to make a "new" covenant etc. and again, the Hebrew word, is "chadash" which means "fresh."

Hope all is well with you and your family,

May the Lord be with you,

Semper Fi,

charlesj

I have read what you have stated, but your point has not yet been made. The fact is no one can even hear the Gospel without God conditioning their heart to hear it. It is by God and God alone that the revelation of the Son comes in. If God did not speak to unbelievers then how is it we now believe? I will stick to this point.

Honestly, I dont know what you are talking about with the rest of your statements, so I will wait to respond if the Lord so requires one. All I can add is that God spoke to me, not in some audible voice or vision, but directly to my heart. It was by Him that I came to truly entrust myself to Him.

ruck1: Notice how the gospel is delivered and the authority, of Jesus, of His apostles & the Bible. Now we ONLY have the bible as our source of

study.

ALLENGIENCE TO GOD

1. Let

[Guest]

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Can you put it in simple terms.

You Go Sis!

I Get Excited Reading Every Scripture These Brother's Post!

However, It Sure Does Help When You KNOW The LORD Jesus Is Threaded Throughout ALL Of Holy Writ Even From Genesis 1:1 Through Revelation 22:20.

"Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." (Hebrews 10:7)

And Here Is A Favorite Bible Verse I Keep In Mind When Reading The Bible Or Listening To A Teaching

"... Sir, we would see Jesus." (John 12:21)

Is The Bible Cool Or What!

God Rules

"For I know that the LORD is great, and that our Lord is above all gods. Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places." (Psalms 135:5-6)

Jesus Saves

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

The Bible Is Truth

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

The Spirit Is Your Teacher

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26)

And With Both You Can Truly Worship God

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:23-24)

Because It Is Possible To Know You Are Oh So Loved

"Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee. My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever." (Psalms 73:25-26)

Amen!

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. (Numbers 6:24-27)

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest]

Bible + nothing (alone) = Christian

New Math?

There Are Many False Christs Who Use The Words Of The Holy Bible And The Wisdom Of Man And The Mind Blinding Power Of saTen To Draw Men Away From The Glorious Gospel Of The LORD Jesus Christ. At Times It Seems Almost Enough To Defeat The Church...

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." (Matthew 24:24)

Almost!

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18)

Hallelujah!

The Truth (The Holy Bible)

".... the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" (Ephesians 6:17)

Plus The Power And The Conviction) Of The Holy Spirit

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged." (John 16:7-11)

Will Show Mankind The True And Sorry Intent Of The Heart

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

Hearts Beating With Deceit And Desperate Wickedness

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)

And In The Believer The Spirit Will Birth A New Baby

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.." (2 Corinthians 5:17)

And These Children Are Clean Through The Word

"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you." (John 15:3)

Because They Believed And Cleave To Jesus

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

And Obey Their LORD

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." (John 15:12)

Amen!

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. (Numbers 6:24-27)

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Grungekid]

I don't know that it supports God talking straight to non-believers, but Paul did say in Romans that He reveals Himself to everyone. It's in the second or third chapter, I think.