Was Jerusalem Mystery Babylon?

[John3;16]

I believe the book of Zechariah has insight into end time prophesy in chapter 14

Zechariah 14:1 Behold the day of the Lord commeth, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses riffled, and the woman ravished, and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

14:3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleve in the midst thereeof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south.

14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of mountains; for the valley of mountains shall reach unto Azal; yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

This is speaking of national Isreal during the tribulation, not the church, and I believe scripture backs this up. there are several things to observe, Who are the nations? where is the location? (I contend that it is literal, Jerusalem) And note Christ is returning to fight against those nations Zech 14:5 and the armies that surround Jerusalem will be destroyed Zech 14:12 but the residue that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

This is after the tribulation when all the residue of earth shall worship the Lord during the tribulation.

Why this is Isreal:

Zech 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Juda and Jerusalem.

Zech 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Zech 12:8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.

Zech 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all nations that come against Jerusalem.

Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of suplications; and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his only son.

Zech 13:6 And one shall say unto him, what are these wounds in thine hands? then he shall answer, those with which I was wounded in the hose of my friends.

Zech 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepard, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepard, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn my hand upon the little ones.

Zech 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut of and die; but the third shall be left therein,

Zech 13:9 And I will Bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, the Lord is my God.

this is prophesy of Jesus and the cross and the day when Isreal realizies Jesus as king and Lord.

In Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith th Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for light by night, which devideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; the Lord of hosts is his name:

Jeremiah 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Isreal also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Jeremiah 31:37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out benneath, I will also cast off all the seed Isreal for all that they have done, saith the Lord,

Romans 11:26 And so all Isreal shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

these verses are related to Zech 12:10

Jeremiah 32:37 Behold I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will cause them to dwell safely:

Jeremiah 32:38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:

Jeremiah 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them.

Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in there hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Jeremiah 32:41 Yea, I will rejoice over them to them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.

Jeremiah 32:42 For thus saith the Lo9rd like as I have brought all this evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.

take note that Isreal was scattered 70 AD before that time single nations took them into captivity, we are seeing prophesy being fulfilled in our time, in 1947 isreal became a nation, if you read Ezekiel chapter 37 there is further revelation on Isreal being born, and when life is breathed into her. Isreal will still go through Jacobs trouble but the Lord will come and fight against those nations that surround her, then she will enter into the 1000 year raign with Jesus as Lord.

I believe that Believers will be raptured before the tribulation period.

Matt: 2431 And he shall send his angels with a great soun of a trumphet, and the shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heave to the other.

Since Christ is returning with his saints, they would have had to been taken up, (Zech 14:5) now those who are beheaded during the tribulation, they are those who observed the angels mesage in Rev 14:6 and 14:7 and had the 2 prophets and the 144000 witnesses, they are they, who do not recieve the mark of the beast.

[Brad]

Later I'm getting wery tried and burn out. You say thing I agree with then turn them around at me as if I disagree concerning scriptural things.

[Brad]

I believe the book of Zechariah has insight into end time prophesy in chapter 14

Zechariah 14:1  Behold the day of the Lord commeth, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses riffled, and the woman ravished, and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

14:3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleve in the midst thereeof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south.

14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of mountains; for the valley of mountains shall reach unto Azal; yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

This is speaking of national Isreal during the tribulation, not  the church, and I believe scripture backs this up. there are several things to observe, Who are the nations? where is the location? (I contend that it is literal, Jerusalem) And note Christ is returning to fight against those nations Zech 14:5 and the armies that surround Jerusalem will be destroyed Zech 14:12 but the residue that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

This is after the tribulation when all the residue of earth shall worship the Lord during the tribulation.

Why this is Isreal:

Zech 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Juda and Jerusalem.

Zech 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Zech 12:8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.

Zech 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I  will seek to destroy all nations that come against Jerusalem.

Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of suplications; and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his only son.

Zech 13:6 And one shall say unto him, what are these wounds in thine hands? then he shall answer, those with which I was wounded in the hose of my friends.

Zech 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepard, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepard, and the sheep  shall be scattered: and I will turn my hand upon the little ones.

Zech 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut of and die; but the third shall be left therein,

Zech 13:9 And I will Bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, the Lord is my God.

this is prophesy of Jesus and the cross and the day when Isreal realizies Jesus as king and Lord.

In Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith th Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for light by night, which devideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; the Lord of hosts is his name:

Jeremiah 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Isreal also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Jeremiah 31:37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out benneath, I will also cast off all the seed Isreal for all that they have done, saith the Lord, 

Romans 11:26 And so all Isreal shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

these verses are related to Zech 12:10

Jeremiah 32:37 Behold I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will cause them to dwell safely:

Jeremiah 32:38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:

Jeremiah 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them.

Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in there hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Jeremiah 32:41 Yea, I will rejoice over them to them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.

Jeremiah 32:42 For thus saith the Lo9rd like as I have brought all this evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.

take note that Isreal was scattered 70 AD before that time single nations took them into captivity, we are seeing prophesy being fulfilled in our time, in 1947 isreal became a nation, if you read Ezekiel chapter 37 there is further revelation on Isreal being born, and when life is breathed into her. Isreal will still go through Jacobs trouble but the Lord will come and fight against those nations that surround her, then she will enter into the 1000 year raign with Jesus as Lord.

I believe that Believers will be raptured before the tribulation period.

Matt: 2431 And he shall send his angels with a great soun of a trumphet, and the shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heave to the other.

Since Christ is returning with his saints, they would have had to been taken up, (Zech 14:5) now those who are beheaded during the tribulation, they are those who observed the angels mesage in Rev 14:6 and 14:7 and had the 2 prophets and the 144000 witnesses, they are they, who do not recieve the mark of the beast.

Check this out if your interested in a Preterist view of Zechariah 14

http://www.eschatology.org/articles/second...ng-articles.htm

[Guest yod]

There is soooo much error on that link that it's hard to know where to begin. I'll just give 2 short examples;

From early Christian times the church fathers applied this chapter to Jerusalem's demise. The Second Coming Bible says Cyril and Theophylact held the view; Hengstenberg also cites Jerome and "several others, particularly of the fathers" who applied this chapter "to the captivity by the Romans." Merrill Unger, the millennial writer acknowledged that Zechariah's prophecy was applied to A.D. 70 by "many early writers."

This implies that since some people interpreted this prophecy way back then to be fulfilled that it MUST be correct.

It ain't.

These are also the same people who thought that God took the kingdom from Israel and gave it to Rome. I bet they were surprised on May 15, 1948 when Israel came back to the land.

Nah...they just spiritualize the miraculous fulfillment of prophecy into irrelevance.

A.) Disprove the parallel between Zechariah 14:7 and Matthew 24:36. But a concordance search reveals that there are only two verses in the entire Bible that speak of a day known only to the Lord,

Did this guy go to seminary?

I didn't...and yet I can think off the top of my head of few examples of "a day known only to the Lord". The most relevant is in Acts 1:7 when Jesus speaks of the kingdom being restored to Israel.

[Brad]

Jew and Gentile are now Israel and the Kingdom was restored in the Spirit. Manifested Sons of God rule it with Jesus Christ indwelling them.

Many were left behind including you, however your still waiting

You maybe looking for a natural fulfillment which is a flaw. You say Babylon is a spiritual condition world wide but fail to see the New Jerusalem world wide. How flawed and sad is that? :c:

[Guest yod]

Jew and Gentile are now Israel and the Kingdom was restored in the Spirit. Manifested Sons of God rule it with Jesus Christ indwelling them.

Many were left behind including you, however your still waiting

You maybe looking for a natural fulfillment which is a flaw. You say Babylon is a spiritual condition world wide but fail to see the New Jerusalem world wide. How flawed and sad is that? :c:

that is because there are 2 different Babylons. One is a city and another is "mystery" babylon. The description of that city can not be forced into being Jerusalem no matter how much you spiritualize it but show me where the bible says "mystery" Jerusalem and I'll go along with you spiritualized interpretation.

The root meaning of Babylon is "City of Confusion" and the root meaning of Jerusalem is "City of Peace". You would have us believe that those 2 are the same?

Nothing you have said can be backed up with scripture read in a literal way. I've gave you about 8 verses in another thread proving that He IS coming back (as opposed to came back already in 70 AD) and that was from a single book of the Bible. There's plenty more where those verses came from.

All I have to do is post a verse and let it be true.

On the other hand, you have to send us to another site so they can explain why the words in those verses don't really mean what they say. How flawed and sad is that? :suspect:

Let me help you. Your statement is close but needs a little adjustment to be biblically true.

Jew and Gentile are now (joined to the commonwealth of) Israel and the Kingdom (has come) in the Spirit. Manifested Sons of God rule it (when under the spiritual authority of) Jesus Christ indwelling them.

Ephesians 2 is the relevant chapter here.

[Brad]

Jew and Gentile are now Israel and the Kingdom was restored in the Spirit. Manifested Sons of God rule it with Jesus Christ indwelling them.

Many were left behind including you, however your still waiting

You maybe looking for a natural fulfillment which is a flaw. You say Babylon is a spiritual condition world wide but fail to see the New Jerusalem world wide. How flawed and sad is that?

[Guest yod]

I'm seeing a pattern here, Brad. You have yet to answer a single question or respond to any of the scriptures I post. Instead you obfuscate and change the question. Why not deal with my objections one point at a time if you can prove your position?

Anyone can take a verse here....add it to end of a verse there......subtract something 4 chapters away...and make it say whatever they want.

The whole premise is ridiculous and you don't know how to read one sentence after the other without adding and subtracting words.

That is all you have convinced me of.

[Guest yod]

Example:

Just because the 2 witness prophecy in Jerusalem does not mean that it is Babylon. This is not mentioned even once in the context of the 2 witnesses.

It is not mentioned for another few chapters away.

This would be like saying that since Manchester won the World Cup soccer it must mean that Kerry will be governor of Iowa. There is no linkage in either statement.

Twisting...turning...manipulating scriptures to make it fit your agenda is not a good idea, bro

Let the Bible say what it says and conform your views to it

[Brad]

Example:

Just because the 2 witness prophecy in Jerusalem does not mean that it is Babylon. This is not mentioned even once in the context of the 2 witnesses.

It is not mentioned for another few chapters away.

This would be like saying that since Manchester won the World Cup soccer it must mean that Kerry will be governor of Iowa. There is no linkage in either statement.

Twisting...turning...manipulating scriptures to make it fit your agenda is not a good idea, bro

Let the Bible say what it says and conform your views to it

Sorry Yod I'm not buying into what your accusing me of. I did let scripture interpet what the Spirit is saying. You have twisted what I was saying and making it out to what you wanted me to say.

What you judge me of doing to scripture you have done unto me. Bearing a false witness.

You might have to go back and read what I wrote and try listing to what the Spirit is saying then get back to me the let me know. Then I might forgive you.