Viribus Unitis Posted April 16, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 46 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/10/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/25/1970 Share Posted April 16, 2008 And the consensus was based on a set of pretty stringent criteria Well, you know some pretty excellent Christian books were left behind and some have had a conflictive history until they were universally accepted. I believe the Holy Spirit guides His body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viribus Unitis Posted April 16, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 46 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/10/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/25/1970 Share Posted April 16, 2008 (Anglo-saxons) First of all, the differences between English Bible versions are quite small, and based on the manuscripts that the translators selected, more than in anything else, with no theological implication, unless, you are actually trying to press them. It is the only Bible version in English I have ever purchased, for the beauty of its language, but I have also read the BBE, the Message Bible, and the NIV, which I was given. Moreover I have read the Romanian Dumitrescu and the Spanish Reina Valera, Dios Habla Hoy, Casa de la Biblia and N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viribus Unitis Posted April 16, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 46 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/10/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/25/1970 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Dear Botero, how do you know the TR is the most reliable manuscript? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viribus Unitis Posted April 16, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 46 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/10/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/25/1970 Share Posted April 16, 2008 It doesn't matter if it is in a footnote, it is not in the text. Most people don't read the footnotes, and even if they do see that in small print at the bottom, the validity of it has been put into question. I completely disagree with the NIV commentators that the most reliable manuscripts leave those verses out. The most reliable manuscripts are the TR, not the ones they believe to be older. Those verses include more than just an account of the resurrection, but they contain the great commission to the church. 1.- The Great Commision is found only in Mark? No. It's found in the other three gospels and in the book of Acts. 2.- People should not be lazy when studying the Gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viribus Unitis Posted April 16, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 46 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/10/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/25/1970 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Dear Botero, how do you know the TR is the most reliable manuscript? Dear Viribus Unitis, how do you know the older manuscripts are the most reliable ones? I have not said that the older manuscripts are the most reliable ones. However, you did say that the TR is the most reliable manuscript, and I wonder what's your base for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viribus Unitis Posted April 16, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 46 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/10/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/25/1970 Share Posted April 16, 2008 It doesn't matter if it is in a footnote, it is not in the text. Most people don't read the footnotes, and even if they do see that in small print at the bottom, the validity of it has been put into question. I completely disagree with the NIV commentators that the most reliable manuscripts leave those verses out. The most reliable manuscripts are the TR, not the ones they believe to be older. Those verses include more than just an account of the resurrection, but they contain the great commission to the church. 1.- The Great Commision is found only in Mark? No. It's found in the other three gospels and in the book of Acts. 2.- People should not be lazy when studying the Gospel. The entirety of the text is not. Nice try, but I am not letting you get away with it. Here is what it says in the text the NIV is disputing. Mark 16:15-18 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Produce any scriptures from other areas of the Bible that include the great commission as well as the signs that will follow believers as is stated in this passage. It is not just enough to say it exists. Produce it if you can. You were concerned about the great commission,. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viribus Unitis Posted April 16, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 46 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/10/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/25/1970 Share Posted April 16, 2008 (Anglo-saxons) First of all, the differences between English Bible versions are quite small, and based on the manuscripts that the translators selected, more than in anything else, with no theological implication, unless, you are actually trying to press them. It is the only Bible version in English I have ever purchased, for the beauty of its language, but I have also read the BBE, the Message Bible, and the NIV, which I was given. Moreover I have read the Romanian Dumitrescu and the Spanish Reina Valera, Dios Habla Hoy, Casa de la Biblia and N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viribus Unitis Posted April 16, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 46 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/10/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/25/1970 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Ok, I'm going to leave this discussion at this point, whatever the ever. It's just a matter in which I made my mind long ago, and I just spend more and more hours of unfruitful labor searching for just another verse that can be interpreted differently. As long as I'm concerned it is a settled matter of little consequence to me, mainly because I use a wide array of Bibles rather than just one, and if I use one in English it is normally the KJV (because I love its style, go figure), and that's that. I am a some big christian forums veteran, and I really do not want to repeat my generic theological strives expereinces, if you know what I mean. So I'm out, I said what I had to say and that's all. I'm off this issue either in public or private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viribus Unitis Posted April 16, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 46 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/10/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/25/1970 Share Posted April 16, 2008 It doesn't matter if it is in a footnote, it is not in the text. Most people don't read the footnotes, and even if they do see that in small print at the bottom, the validity of it has been put into question. I completely disagree with the NIV commentators that the most reliable manuscripts leave those verses out. The most reliable manuscripts are the TR, not the ones they believe to be older. Those verses include more than just an account of the resurrection, but they contain the great commission to the church. 1.- The Great Commision is found only in Mark? No. It's found in the other three gospels and in the book of Acts. 2.- People should not be lazy when studying the Gospel. The entirety of the text is not. Nice try, but I am not letting you get away with it. Here is what it says in the text the NIV is disputing. Mark 16:15-18 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Produce any scriptures from other areas of the Bible that include the great commission as well as the signs that will follow believers as is stated in this passage. It is not just enough to say it exists. Produce it if you can. You were concerned about the great commission,. Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luk 10:19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. That is not an account of the great commission. What you gave me was an account of when the 70 went out and reported back to Jesus. It by no means gives a full account of the scriptures in dispute. As for the TR versus other manuscripts that are out there, nobody can prove one better than another in an absolute sense, but what they can do is show them to have differences. Those of us who believe the TR is the Word of God believe that by faith, as I stated earlier, and those who believe they are all equal, (am I right to assume that is your position, or is it only that of the NIV translators) believe that by faith. If that is not the case, then tell me how your belief that all manuscripts are equal can be proven correct? Now that you doubt my words so much, here they are, I hope it pleases your distrust of me goodbye: Mathew 28:16-20, Luke 24:36-51, John 20:21 Acts 1:8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kansasdad Posted April 16, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,227 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/19/1964 Share Posted April 16, 2008 There is NOTHING more beautiful than language of the KJ, when I am just reading for the sheer enjoyment of it, it has to be the KJ...........read the 23rd Psalms in a couple of different versions, none of them compare to it being read from the KJ. Makes me wanna go read it right now! Psalm 23 1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. 4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. From a different Version: Psalm 22 1 A psalm for David. The Lord ruleth me: and I shall want nothing. 2 He hath set me in a place of pasture. He hath brought me up, on the water of refreshment: 3 He hath converted my soul. He hath led me on the paths of justice, for his own name's sake. 4 For though I should walk in the midst of the shadow of death, I will fear no evils, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they have comforted me. 5 Thou hast prepared a table before me against them that afflict me. Thou hast anointed my head with oil; and my chalice which inebriateth me, how goodly is it! 6 And thy mercy will follow me all the days of my life. And that I may dwell in the house of the Lord unto length of days. 1 "Ruleth me"... In Hebrew, Is my shepherd, viz., to feed, guide, and govern me. Interesting yes? What translation is that from? I was hoping some one would figure it out. You know me well enough I bet you can find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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