Rick-Parker Posted April 29, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 4,273 Content Per Day: 4.84 Reputation: 1,855 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted April 29, 2008 You know, JM, you keep trotting out that you are in the service. I appreciate your service. I was in the Army during Vietnam. I've experienced more in my 53 years than you have in your 25(?) years. I've seen things that would make you puke. But that has nothing to do with this topic. The easiest way to stop me from saying some (I never mentioned anyone by name) are more concerned about the rights of the adults than the children is to talk about the rights of the children as much as you talk about the rights of the adults. Do you realize that there is no right to privacy in the Constitution? So that issue is mute. All men (and children) are created equal. Those children have the same rights as you or I. We all have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These children have no hope of liberty since they are forced to remain in the FLDS cult. They are unable to pursue happiness because they are forced to marry someone they probably don't love, to have babies they probably don't want. The right from unreasionable search and seizure. The children are being seized by the cult to be sex slaves/baby mills for those old(er) men. It is time to stop throwing around the Constitutions as your personal bat to knock out whoever has a different perspective than you and apply it equally to both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinM Posted April 29, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 144 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,512 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 625 Days Won: 10 Joined: 04/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1979 Share Posted April 29, 2008 It's a bat I proudly wield. More Americans should feel the same way. I never mentioned privacy in my posts, so I am not sure where that came from. But, Unreasonable Searches and Seizures, Due Process, Equal Protection Under the Law are principles that are important to me. You served your country, you know exactly what happens when a government seizes power over its population and crushes their liberty, you should be very familiar with the importance of limiting the power of the State/Federal Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinM Posted April 29, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 144 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,512 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 625 Days Won: 10 Joined: 04/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1979 Share Posted April 29, 2008 You know, JM, you keep trotting out that you are in the service. I appreciate your service. I was in the Army during Vietnam. I've experienced more in my 53 years than you have in your 25(?) years. You are being condescending. I'm 28 B-T-W. I mention my service because it puts my values in context with my principles. My service is not my shield, just as the Constitution isn't my sword. Whether you see it that way or not is beside the point. There is a confusion here in how the law should be applied, that's what happens when a society abandons Judeo-Christian Principles and tries to apply them at the same time. As a Christian 2 things dictate the decisions I make. My Christian Values first, my Constitutional Values second. But, my values are irrelevant in this scenario. As a Christian I am appalled at the abuse that these children were subjected to. It shouldn't happen in a Christian Society. It does, which is why I must rely on the law to convict these people for their crimes. But, what precedent is the State setting when it breaks the law to enforce the law? That's quite a contradiction and makes a confusing situation even more perplexing. Which is why, our secular government must follow the law, while applying the law. Because, as soon as our government starts making Moral Judgements we will have a theocracy and not a Democratic Republic. Let the Judges make the moral judgements when they make their sentences, but let the State submit a lawful case to the court. Otherwise the Judge's Judgement will be impaired and true justice will disappear somewhere in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted April 29, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 4,273 Content Per Day: 4.84 Reputation: 1,855 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I'm not being condescending. Trotting out military service has no baring. Yet you had mentioned it twice as if it gave you a special understanding of Constitutional law. Or a superior knowledge of the cost of freedom. You do know that you have no constitutional rights when you join the service, right? Do you like that? I can tell you with certainty, that once these children taste freedom, which you and I have both defended, they won't want to give up those freedoms again. Constitutional rights are not any less for children as they are for adults. There are two sides to this issue. It just happens that one side can't protect itself, so we as a society need to step in and protect them. This is not a debate about you or I. It is a discussion about the right of one segment of society to be protected from another segment of society. We don't have all the information yet, but obviously there was enough probable cause for a judge (maybe even a democrat judge) to issue a search warrant. There also must have been enough evidence of abuse for a judge to rule that the CPS was justified in seperating adults from children. And the over 400 lawyers who represent these innocents to not have their faces all over the news and internet decrying how wronged the parties have been by the State's actions. Again, if people what me (and others) to stop believing that some perople care more about the rights of the adults, than you are going to have to give equal time to the rights of the children. It's not difficult if you are sincerely concerned about the rights of every American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing Posted April 30, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 400 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,903 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/19/1942 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 the fourth amendment: my son sent me this link. very, very, interesting. http://www.lectlaw.com/def/f081.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted April 30, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 4,273 Content Per Day: 4.84 Reputation: 1,855 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted April 30, 2008 the fourth amendment: my son sent me this link. very, very, interesting. http://www.lectlaw.com/def/f081.htm I posted this on the other thread on this subject, and I'll post it here. Can someone provide positive proof, not just reteric, that anyone's constitutional rights have been violated. Not just which rights or a discription of the rights in question but an evidentuary discription which would convince a person, ignorant of the circumstances we are discussing, that rights have been violated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing Posted April 30, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 400 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,903 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/19/1942 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 rick, the point i'm trying to make is, no one's rights were violated . with the C.I. and with the phone call, the texas dept. of cps had probable cause to raid the flds compound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted April 30, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 4,273 Content Per Day: 4.84 Reputation: 1,855 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted April 30, 2008 OK. I'm sorry. I misunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing Posted April 30, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 400 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,903 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/19/1942 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 OK. I'm sorry. I misunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His_Own Posted May 14, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 127 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2008 "A total of 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 are in state custody... Of those girls, 31 either have children or are pregnant, said Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar...." By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press Writer news.yahoo.com But FLDS spokesman Rod Parker has accused the state of holding on to pregnant women and treating them as minors to ensure the state could take custody of the newborns, who might otherwise be born outside of Texas.... There are 27 claims of women being misidentified as girls when they were taken into state custody from the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado. ... The state's admission on Tuesday takes the total number of children in state custody down to 464. Sect mother of newborn not a minor, Texas concedes. By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press Writer news.yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts