Prisoner abuse

[Guest charlie]

Why do people keep saying that we haven't found any WMDs when we have?

When I hear WMD the immediate thought that comes to my mind is nuclear warheads. I don't know what comes to your mind Yod. For me, if anything less than nuclear equates to WMD then I'm pretty sure most of the countries on earth possess WMD. Do we take them all on?

I agree with Other One and Catsmeow.

I can't think of one single female that I served in the military with, that would have smiled and pointed at a bunch of pensis' lined up. (And I served with a few (not the majority) that weren't exactly what you'd call religious.) Evidently the sight of such a thing didn't bother this girl. Every woman I remember from the service would have turned red as a beat and looked away.

IT'S SHAMEFUL!!

My question is: What would Jesus do? Seems to me the people that normally like to ask this question in most situations are silent at the moment.....except for you Cat.

Edited May 10, 2004 by charlie

[Catsmeow]

I feel so embarassed when I see other women make fools of themselves. I see it all the time but this whole thing really crossed the line.

Charlie, I can't get over the look in the face of that Iraqi prisoner who kept brushing away his own tears. He was crushed! He felt pain...real pain.

He said, "How can I let my family even see me?" He's horribly ashamed and embarassed. I just sat and cried with him. I wanted to hug him and say, "Friend, I'm so sorry what happened to you."

It's no different from rape. It's degrading and defiling and does major damage to the soul.

This man is hurting deeply because in their culture especially, such things are absolutely horrendous. They don't have a bunch of R rated flicks at the mall there.

They don't allow that to pollute their minds. They may not be Christians but for crying out loud, they at least despise this kind of indecency.

[Guest yod]

we never thought Saddam had nuclear warheads. It was chemical and biological weapons we were looking for. They are in Syria and their pariah state, Lebanon. You will see soon enough.

These prisoners were being humiliated before interrogation for intelligence. They weren't just randomly picked for this for no reason at all. This doesn't make it right but again, it's all being reported without as if it happened in a void.

[Guest yod]

Turn on CNN and that's what you see...over and over. Makes me want to

cry.

that is what it is supposed to do and this is why CNN keeps playing it.

What would be the result if they kept playing the scenes of Fallujah where 4 Americans were dragged through the streets? Who would be upset then? Why don't they play those scenes?

Because it would not help their agenda for Americans to understand the brutality of war.

Missionaries do not have the same purpose as soldiers. There is no comparison.

[Guest charlie]

River, that's just terrible but it just serves as another illustration as to how far down the slippery slope we've come.

Yod, you'd be singing a different tune if that had of been Israeli jews being stripped naked with their genitals hung out there for the world to see, while an American woman smiled and pointed.

People are people and wrong is wrong so stop making excuses here. It's bad enough the atrocities that are perpetrated on american hostages/prisoners but that doesn't justify torture by American troops on the prisoners under their control. We're suppose to be a beacon of light in the dark, are we not? We are SUPPOSE to be above this kind of behavior. It's unbelieveable to me that anyone, especially a Christian, would even attempt to make an excuse for this. Just another indicator of where we're "at".

Cats, I saw them interview one prisoner who said he was happy when we came in there. He'd already been held and tortured by Saddam Hussein. Now the same thing has happened to him by American hands. Maybe he was lying, maybe he was telling the truth but somehow I think this individual was telling the truth.

Irregardless, we've lost our moral high ground. IMO it would be in our best interest to pull out now before more of our people are killed.

[Guest LadyC]

river, that is terrible. they should not make her out to be a hero, but a traitor! for the record, i listen to conservative talk radio whenever i'm in the car, and have heard no conservative brush off the acts of these soldiers as "youthful antics" or anything else. they all are just as outraged on our local conservative talk station as the rest of us are.

hey yod, i agree with you. i know that you are not trying to lessen the impact of these soldiers who did this, as some seem to feel you are. i know that you find the actions of these few as dispicable as the rest of us. you're just trying to point out the obvious... this IS being politicized to further an agenda, which is to glorify kerry and demonize bush. the media wouldn't dare replay (or play at all) clips from the atrocities done to americans over and over ad nauseum, because that just isn't "newsworthy"... meaning it would produce an "inappropriate" sentiment.... it might make more americans support the war.

IMO, the government is being irresponsible in allowing these photos to be released to the public. what purpose does it serve? it does NOT change the minds of anyone who is against us, whether on our own soil or foriegn. but it DOES serve to change the minds of those who might be uncertain where they stand, and with enough media saturation, could very well change the minds of those who would otherwise support the current administration.

and THAT, folks, is the biggest atrocity of all... that our soldiers are being USED by members of our government and media to further a political agenda.... and in the process stirring up more anger and hatred among those who already hate, and putting our troops in greater danger than they are already in.

[Catsmeow]

It doesn't matter if Democrats are using this as a weapon during an election year.

It doesn't matter one iota to that poor prisoner who was taken and tormented and humiliated for all the world to see.

The one I saw interviewed wasn't even considered a "threat" ...he happened to be a passenger in a taxi that was stolen. He was just riding in it.

They arrested him, too. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So, please explain why there is rationale for this? What if it were your son?

Look, say whatever you want...but instead of chalking it off to "Oh, that's just war for ya" or "That's just politics for ya"....instead of making light of this...let's just be straight here and say wrong is wrong.

Wrong is wrong regardless of a man's skin color. Wrong is wrong regardless of whether he's a western Chrsitian or an Arab Muslim....

We cannot make light of this period...because we have to ask ourselves, "What if that were YOUR son?"

We'd be reacting very differently if the Iraqis had taken one of our sons and paraded him around naked and humiliated him.

We'd react very differently if is was our soldiers being mistreated.

When it happens to our side, we get really upset...and we SHOULD! Fair is fair.

If we wouldn't want our people to be treated in this manner, neither should the Iraqi prisoners be treated in this manner.

The very fact that this Lynndie person is being "honored" as a hero makes me sick.

[Guest kitkat]

My only question is, after all the torture the prisoner's endured, why isn't there any evidence that shows the Iraqi prisoners were bleeding or bruised?

[Catsmeow]

Kitkat: What you may have missed was the photos of dead Iraqi bodies in the prisons...and reports that haven't become fully publicized of detainees who were tortured to death.

They showed a few in the prison partially shown in body bags but naked and definitely beaten and bruised.

Also, many of these prisoners who survived were given electric shock torture, which may not necessarily leave any physical evidence of torture, such as burn marks...but might, depending on the intensity of the current.

People can be horrible tortured by wayof electric shock and not show any real physical evidence of torture.

You are only beginning to see a small portion of the pictures and videos just now being released. Stay tuned. More is coming our way.

Most have to be blocked out for the obscenity of the photos but there's a ton of filthy images or tortured and brutalized men.

Oh, and BTW...I happen to know for a fact that battered wives don't always show their bruises, cuts and wounds...husbands are very cleaver in finding ways to "hide" the damage done.

Same with prisoners. There's always a way to conceal the damage done. But God has seen with HIS eyes and nothing has escaped HIM. He knows!

[Guest LadyC]

cats, can you quote anyone here who has dismissed or made light of the abuse? i think you're misreading what people are trying to say here. there is no justification for what happened. but it DOES matter that it is being politicized because it puts MORE people, both americans and iraqis, in greater danger. that is the point yod, myself, and some others are trying to make.