Christian Metal

[Guest man]

Same reason you blasphemy the holy spirit?

You should really knockoff the accusations guy.

You have no grounds whatsoever to make a statement like that.

Your jealuosy is showing.

[Iryssa]

I don't think tune or rhythm can be made secular or Christian. It's the spirit behind it and the words put to it that matter. Metal played by a Christian band is not coming from a spirit of rebellion or sin, it's coming from a desire to worship God using their talents and tastes, which just happen to include playing and singing heavy metal. There are heavy metal bands out there which don't feel that way, but no one's forcing anyone to listen to them or buy their music.

Reality check: Music styles change and evolve, and there is always going to be some musical style that someone doesn't like. That doesn't make it evil. Nor does having a counterpart in the secular music scene make it evil. Music is like many other things: books, internet, visual art, etc. They can be glorifying to God or not, depending on the person at the keyboard or behind the lens or at the canvas. Books are not inherently evil just because there are some books out there that are not glorifying to God. You could break it down even further into genres: there are many mysteries out there that are not glorifying to God, but there are Christian Mystery books too...are those evil? What about the teen fiction genre? Many of those are not glorifying to God, but I know for a fact my local Christian bookstore has an enormous section devoted to teen fiction. Is Christian teen fiction evil simply because there are worse teen fiction books out there?

"Well, with musicians it's about the image and lifestyle too."

If a supposedly Christian band is not living the Life as it should be lived, then absolutely, don't listen to them. But there are a great many Christian bands out there NO MATTER WHAT STYLE THEY PLAY that ARE living the Life, and bringing many people to the knowledge of Christ through their art. (And yes, even Metal has its artistry, though I'm sure many of the older generation won't believe it. It takes GREAT skill to play as many of those musicians play).

[Atonement]

Same reason you blasphemy the holy spirit?

You should really knockoff the accusations guy.

You have grounds whatsoever to make a statement like that.

Your jealuosy is showing.

Oh I have all right to say that.. It's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. I don't care if you agree with it or not.. Truth is turth, and facts are facts and there is no gray area in between. Maybe you should read your Bible a little more about this topic before you start to blasphemy as well.. Just a thought

[Guest man]

Same reason you blasphemy the holy spirit?

You should really knockoff the accusations guy.

You have grounds whatsoever to make a statement like that.

Your jealuosy is showing.

Oh I have all right to say that.. It's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. I don't care if you agree with it or not.. Truth is turth, and facts are facts and there is no gray area in between. Maybe you should read your Bible a little more about this topic before you start to blasphemy as well.. Just a thought

Boy...talk about arrogant and unknowledgeable.

If you wanted a thread shut down, all you had to do was ask a mod.

Here's something you might want to remember......"Your words are your witness".

[Atonement]

I don't think tune or rhythm can be made secular or Christian. It's the spirit behind it and the words put to it that matter. Metal played by a Christian band is not coming from a spirit of rebellion or sin, it's coming from a desire to worship God using their talents and tastes, which just happen to include playing and singing heavy metal. There are heavy metal bands out there which don't feel that way, but no one's forcing anyone to listen to them or buy their music.

Reality check: Music styles change and evolve, and there is always going to be some musical style that someone doesn't like. That doesn't make it evil. Nor does having a counterpart in the secular music scene make it evil. Music is like many other things: books, internet, visual art, etc. They can be glorifying to God or not, depending on the person at the keyboard or behind the lens or at the canvas. Books are not inherently evil just because there are some books out there that are not glorifying to God. You could break it down even further into genres: there are many mysteries out there that are not glorifying to God, but there are Christian Mystery books too...are those evil? What about the teen fiction genre? Many of those are not glorifying to God, but I know for a fact my local Christian bookstore has an enormous section devoted to teen fiction. Is Christian teen fiction evil simply because there are worse teen fiction books out there?

"Well, with musicians it's about the image and lifestyle too."

If a supposedly Christian band is not living the Life as it should be lived, then absolutely, don't listen to them. But there are a great many Christian bands out there NO MATTER WHAT STYLE THEY PLAY that ARE living the Life, and bringing many people to the knowledge of Christ through their art. (And yes, even Metal has its artistry, though I'm sure many of the older generation won't believe it. It takes GREAT skill to play as many of those musicians play).

So true.. Very true my friend..

Check out these lyrics from White Cross

Because of Jesus I have peace of mind

Because of Jesus I'm no longer blind

Because of Jesus old things have passed away

Because of Jesus you can start again today

Still I don't understand his love the love he has for me

I just know one simple fact he died to set me free

When I see that I have fallen I just go to him

Because Jesus is the only one who can take away my sin

Because of Jesus I have peace of mind

Because of Jesus I'm no longer blind

Because of Jesus old things have passed away

Because of Jesus you can start again today

There were times I thought that he had left me on my own

I have learned how much he loves me and now, now I know

That I am like a jewel to him and he watches over me

And he is so concerned about me that he will never leave

Because of Jesus my old life is gone

Because of Jesus instead of being weak I'm strong

Because of Jesus all things have been made new

Because of Jesus I have come to know the Truth

And the music is just awesome behind it

Check it out here:

You can listen to them all.. Check out this song.. Because of Jesus

White Cross - Because of Jesus

[ParanoidAndroid]

The Devil stole Heavy Metal?

Yes he has.

Heavy Metal was never rooted in the Gospel, so the devil could not have stolen it. It was his to begin with.

Do an internet search on "The origin of Metal Music".

My question to this would be what music is rooted in the gospel? Most forms of music (I'd go as far as to say ALL forms of music), you will find, go back to a secular base.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Okay, so then the crux of your argument really hinges on lyrical content, not musical format, right?

So I should be able to simply change the words of the three songs above, leave in everything else, and it will be something which glorifies God?

"Don cha wish your Savior was hot like mine.

Don cha wish your Savior was a healer like mine..."

"Hallelujah it's raining manna

It's raining manna, Hallelujah

It's raining manna..."

"It's getting hot in here so open up your Bible..."

Those are now Christian songs because we've changed the lyrics...

Not quite, though that's part of it. My point is that the majority of Christian music that we sing at church these days is highly influenced by the stylistic conventions of what we call "pop-music". As well as some Jazz influences, Blues, and perhaps a hint of punk-rock from time-to-time. I was merely attempting point out that with all the non-Christian influences of these styles of music, why is Heavy Metal considered somehow different to other styles? If you condemn Christian metal, you also must condemn Christian Pop, Christian Rock, Christian Jazz, and go back to the roots of four-part harmony (which even then if you go back far enough I would probably say has some form of root in pagan culture before the style was used in Churches).

As for the lyrics you changed, I understand you were only trying to make a point, but I'd venture that none of them could be considered "Christian", since the first still deals with coveting, gives a sense of superiority of Christians over non-Christians. The second, unless it is only a line heralding the history of Israel, has no applicable meaning to us today, since manna no longer will fall from heaven. The final one, I'd have to ask why it was getting hot in the first place and what does heat have to do with reading the Bible?

[ParanoidAndroid]

My answer would be, "In a manner which God desires, not what we desire." Fact is, we treat our faith like Burger King: Where we can "have it our way." If we don't like a certain church we can "hop" to the next one, and then to the next one, until we find one that best suits our own personal preference. If we were once formerly headbangers or rap fans, or if we were once bikers or gang members, well then no problem: we can still listen to rap music, metal, punk, and we can still be bikers and gang members, because "have it your way" Christianity features everything that is most desirable to us. It suits our soul-life perfectly. All we have to do is change it a little. How do we not believe that such a superficial and self-serving approach to our faith does not grieve the Lord?

Hi Ovedya, I have one question for you - what music is acceptable to sing to the Lord?

[Guest man]

The Devil stole Heavy Metal?

Yes he has.

Heavy Metal was never rooted in the Gospel, so the devil could not have stolen it. It was his to begin with.

Do an internet search on "The origin of Metal Music".

My question to this would be what music is rooted in the gospel? Most forms of music (I'd go as far as to say ALL forms of music), you will find, go back to a secular base.

Exactly.

So to say that the devil stole "Heavy Metal" is a bit of a stretch.

I may be condemned here but I really don't listen to christian music. If it's on the radio, sure I'll listen, but I don't seek it out.

I don't like Metal music. Some of it's ok, but most of it is just noise. Anybody can bang on a guitar and scream into a mic, but it takes real talent to make those instruments sing all on their own and a good portion of metal doesn't do that.

I don't condemn people who listen to it. It's their thing....just like what I listen to is my thing.

But to say that heavy metal belonged to God before it belonged to satan, well....I would have to disagree.

All you have to do is look at the fathers of heavy metal to see that God wasn't there in the beginning.

[Ovedya]

Same reason you blasphemy the holy spirit?

See.....This is exactly what I meant about anathematizing someone. Brother, for someone who claims to have attained some theological degree, you sure have a lot of learning to do.