seekeratthesea Posted July 23, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 There are articles out there about the decline or war both in terms of the number of casualties AND the total number of wars being fought. Something that I've noticed, less frequent, and less body counts...not to trivialize what's currently going on but the numbers are just smaller. So how does the decline of war/end times theology juxtapose against the "wars and rumors of war" which were actually more frequent in the past than now? I have a feeling I'm putting my feet in the fire here because my experience with end times theologists is that they don't like to give up their notions of the end being just around the corner...... I always figured the wars and rumours of wars meant that there would always be violence or the threat of it on the world stage, I dont see anything about an increase or decline, just a constant presence. Much like Jesus said the poor would always be with us. I guess it could be read that way, Here is another take on it, not mine but interesting. "Wars and Rumors of Wars" "In AD 40 there was a disturbance at Mesopotamia which (Josephus says) caused the deaths of more than 50,000 people. In AD 49, a tumult at Jerusalem at the time of the Passover resulted in 10,000 to 20,000 deaths. At Caesarea, contentions between Jewish people and other inhabitants resulted in over 20,000 Jews being killed. As Jews moved elsewhere, over 20,000 were destroyed by Syrians. At Scythopolis, over 13,000 Jews were killed. Thousands were killed in other places, and at Alexandria 50,000 were killed. At Damascus, 10,000 were killed in an hour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted July 23, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 Also, actually that the number of deaths directly resulting from war is really not related to end-times prophesy. There are more wars being fought, and more threats of war, in this age than in any other time in world history. Sorry but you need to get up on your history........I was being told the same thing in the 80's, I know people that were being told the same thing in the 70's. War is on a general decline.....this should be good news for you...... You're not getting the point. The numbers, the body count, the intensity of conflict, has nothing to do with the Lord's prophesy. Wars and rumors of wars. That's all there is. There is nothing at all in the prophesy that indicates increase or body count. And actually, yes, there are more conflicts in this age than at any other time in world history: http://www.countdown.org/armageddon/war.htm Actually no..........conflicts have been going down since WW II. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...9818_war30.html And wars and rumors of them have existed forever. That can be applied to any period of history.....and it's actually less applicable now than before, because of the decrease in the amount of wars, the smaller body count, This is something that should be welcomed and celebrated. And if you think the numbers and body count don't matter, why are you linking to a site that details those numbers and body counts? And if you want to ignore body counts or increase of wars.....you're still stuck with the fact they the prophecy would be no more applicable now than it was in the first century. You can find wars and rumors of war before the prophecy was ever made. "Wars and Rumors of Wars" "In AD 40 there was a disturbance at Mesopotamia which (Josephus says) caused the deaths of more than 50,000 people. In AD 49, a tumult at Jerusalem at the time of the Passover resulted in 10,000 to 20,000 deaths. At Caesarea, contentions between Jewish people and other inhabitants resulted in over 20,000 Jews being killed. As Jews moved elsewhere, over 20,000 were destroyed by Syrians. At Scythopolis, over 13,000 Jews were killed. Thousands were killed in other places, and at Alexandria 50,000 were killed. At Damascus, 10,000 were killed in an hour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted July 23, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Don't let yourself get caught up in this stuff........I've seen it turn people into cheerleaders for armageddon which is a really morbid position. War really is declining in the historical context which should be welcomed, not denied merely because it interferes with a person's end time theories. I agree that it's not as easy to study prophecy as some make it out to be. I waffle between Post and A-Millenial positions at any given time, but when someone tries to pin me down I'll say I'm a Pan-Mill (It will all pan-out the way God intended in the end) because it's caused people who have devoted a lifetime of study to disagree and change positions, I get a few hours a week of serious study, sometimes more, sometimes less. Of course I need an open mind. I always wondered about this cheerleader for armageddon thing (Jack Van Impe and company pushed it and it made my brain itch), but I'm equally perplexed at some pretribbers who stockpile three years worth of MREs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted July 23, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 Don't let yourself get caught up in this stuff........I've seen it turn people into cheerleaders for armageddon which is a really morbid position. War really is declining in the historical context which should be welcomed, not denied merely because it interferes with a person's end time theories. I agree that it's not as easy to study prophecy as some make it out to be. I waffle between Post and A-Millenial positions at any given time, but when someone tries to pin me down I'll say I'm a Pan-Mill (It will all pan-out the way God intended in the end) because it's caused people who have devoted a lifetime of study to disagree and change positions, I get a few hours a week of serious study, sometimes more, sometimes less. Of course I need an open mind. I always wondered about this cheerleader for armageddon thing (Jack Van Impe and company pushed it and it made my brain itch), but I'm equally perplexed at some pretribbers who stockpile three years worth of MREs.... I think a big part of understanding prophecy is understanding that you don't need to understand prophecy to be a good Christian anyway. And I know what you mean about the millenial positions. I don't even get into discussions about it anymore because so many people get WAY TOO invested into their favored notions, their pet antichrists, etc. They end up sounding more like they're selling a product than searching for truth. I started to get way too caught up in this stuff in the 80's, and then abruptly got transferred overseas, away from the crowd I was with, where I ended up reading my Bible alone, without anyone telling me what to think...........best thing that ever happened to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted July 23, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I ended up reading my Bible alone, without anyone telling me what to think...........best thing that ever happened to me. Your experience sounds very similar to mine. Sometimes reading alone makes doctrine clearer, other times it just makes you realise that it's ok not to know everything. Both are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizzdy Posted July 23, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 173 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,911 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 10 Joined: 03/21/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted July 23, 2008 I have to agree that the number of the all out blow em up wars have declined. In Matt. 24:7 it tells us of nations shall rise against nations and kingdoms against kingdoms, that is what I see going on. Look at Darfur and those many places where tribes are rising against one another. Even Hamas, Fatah and those types of factions are very much at odds within each organization. No its not a 'new' problem but perhaps the 'increase' is the worlds knowledge of such stuff? Christ never said that if you hear all this stuff or see any of it happening that the end is right around the corner just that it is the beginning of sorrows. I myself like prophecy, like to read it and study it, it brings me closer to God but I don't hang my hat on it so to speak. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I am not sure you could convince my fellow Marines that there is less conflict now than there was 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted July 24, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 I have to agree that the number of the all out blow em up wars have declined. In Matt. 24:7 it tells us of nations shall rise against nations and kingdoms against kingdoms, that is what I see going on. Look at Darfur and those many places where tribes are rising against one another. Even Hamas, Fatah and those types of factions are very much at odds within each organization. No its not a 'new' problem but perhaps the 'increase' is the worlds knowledge of such stuff? Christ never said that if you hear all this stuff or see any of it happening that the end is right around the corner just that it is the beginning of sorrows. I myself like prophecy, like to read it and study it, it brings me closer to God but I don't hang my hat on it so to speak. Just my two cents. Well the blow em up wars were also cases of nations rising up against nation. Hamas and Fatah don't really qualify as nations or kingdoms, I see them as more like international street gangs. I believe that Christ actually said that these things must pass but that it would not yet be the end, and then went on to speak of persecutions. There are some who think the wars and rumors of wars were actually things that were going on at the time, and the beginning of that passage relates to the destruction of the temple anyway which took place in 70 AD....so there is arguement for that perspective. And in that scenario, the persecution could be seen as what was going to against Christians in the centuries following his crucifixion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted July 24, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) the last two lines sound like your hoping for more wars in the future....seriously, I don't mean to berate you but I get that kind of reaction from lots of people..and I don't mean to imply that I'm not guilty of it also.....but I think our brains are synced for the negative.....we shouldn't be greeting good news with reactions like that in my opinion I am most assuredly not hoping for more wars in the future. I have spent the last 20 years as a Marine and the last thing I want for my children are more wars. I don Edited July 24, 2008 by seekeratthesea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted July 24, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 I ended up reading my Bible alone, without anyone telling me what to think...........best thing that ever happened to me. Your experience sounds very similar to mine. Sometimes reading alone makes doctrine clearer, other times it just makes you realise that it's ok not to know everything. Both are good. I would still prefer to read it alone.....I don't even take a Bible to church but if the preacher hits on something interesting, I'll make a note and read later when I get home. This from your post is wisdom that everyone is "qualified" for, but that most just don't understand, it's ok not to know everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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