yaqub Posted July 24, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 45 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/06/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) What was said was: You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. (Matt 24:6, also Mark 13:7) I didn't see that Jesus said that there will be an increase in the number of wars. Where did this idea originate from? Secondly, "when these things happen, the end is still to come," it tells me that there is some time left, though Jesus didn't say how far off. In fact, when it is quiet, then all bets are off! No........but I hear it all the time that when end of the worlders want to "prove" that we're in the end times, they use that verse AND THEN tell me that we've got more wars going on then any other time in history. And if it's simply "wars and rumors of wars" constitute all of history. Wars and rumors of wars includes the same time frame in which Christ spoke the words, it includes time frame BEFORE He came to earth too. Wars and rumors of wars is part of all history. And it's not quiet in todays era either, it's just less noisy. I'm an "end of worlder," but I don't use this verse to prove it because it isn't what Jesus said. On the other hand, it is the verses in Rev. and other OT passages that set the background. Now, when I say quiet, I certainly don't mean there will be no more wars. That will only happen when Christ returns.... and even then, there is one big one at the end of the Millenium. When I say all bets are off, it is in relation the the syllogism of that verse. Since the antecedent is false, it doesn't matter what the conclusion is in that syllogism. Now, when Christ spoke those words, they are in the future tense. Whether or not it includes the past before Christ is debatable. Edited July 24, 2008 by yaqub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted July 24, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 What was said was: You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. (Matt 24:6, also Mark 13:7) I didn't see that Jesus said that there will be an increase in the number of wars. Where did this idea originate from? Secondly, "when these things happen, the end is still to come," it tells me that there is some time left, though Jesus didn't say how far off. In fact, when it is quiet, then all bets are off! No........but I hear it all the time that when end of the worlders want to "prove" that we're in the end times, they use that verse AND THEN tell me that we've got more wars going on then any other time in history. And if it's simply "wars and rumors of wars" constitute all of history. Wars and rumors of wars includes the same time frame in which Christ spoke the words, it includes time frame BEFORE He came to earth too. Wars and rumors of wars is part of all history. And it's not quiet in todays era either, it's just less noisy. I'm an "end of worlder," but I don't use this verse to prove it because it isn't what Jesus said. On the other hand, it is the verses in Rev. and other OT passages that set the background. Now, when I say quiet, I certainly don't mean there will be no more wars. That will only happen when Christ returns.... and even then, there is one big one at the end of the Millenium. When I say all bets are off, it is in relation the the syllogism of that verse. Since the antecedent is false, it doesn't matter what the conclusion is in that syllogism. Now, when Christ spoke those words, they are in the future tense. Whether or not it includes the past before Christ is debatable. I didn't mean to imply that Christ was talking about the past when he said that. My point was that those words are so broad they could be applied to any part , or all of human history, before Christ's time, during, or after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 And it's not quiet in todays era either, it's just less noisy. So what's your point? That that particular verse can't really be used to find end times scenarios, as people often seem intent on doing. And in general, that the end or days may be "no where in sight" anyway. Why is that an issue with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted July 25, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 (edited) hh Edited July 25, 2008 by seekeratthesea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted July 25, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 And it's not quiet in todays era either, it's just less noisy. So what's your point? That that particular verse can't really be used to find end times scenarios, as people often seem intent on doing. And in general, that the end or days may be "no where in sight" anyway. Why is that an issue with you? I don't know that it is an "issue"......I just don't think it's true, and it's hard for an untruth to be an issue because an untruth is a negative. There are people who seem intent that we be living in the end times though, which is what I would call creating an issue of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~pearl Posted July 25, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 700 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/11/1977 Share Posted July 25, 2008 I don't know that it is an "issue"......I just don't think it's true, and it's hard for an untruth to be an issue because an untruth is a negative. There are people who seem intent that we be living in the end times though, which is what I would call creating an issue of something. We have been living in the "end times" ever since Jesus ascended to Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted July 25, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 I don't know that it is an "issue"......I just don't think it's true, and it's hard for an untruth to be an issue because an untruth is a negative. There are people who seem intent that we be living in the end times though, which is what I would call creating an issue of something. We have been living in the "end times" ever since Jesus ascended to Heaven. Yes.............. And the times of today are not necessarily any more an "end time" than the times of Christ. I think there is a HUUUUU UUUUGE disconnect between our perception of time and God's perception of time, assuming He even bothers to perceive it or experience it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I don't know that it is an "issue"......I just don't think it's true, and it's hard for an untruth to be an issue because an untruth is a negative. There are people who seem intent that we be living in the end times though, which is what I would call creating an issue of something. We have been living in the "end times" ever since Jesus ascended to Heaven. Yes.............. And the times of today are not necessarily any more an "end time" than the times of Christ. I think there is a HUUUUU UUUUGE disconnect between our perception of time and God's perception of time, assuming He even bothers to perceive it or experience it. So do we just ignore what's going on around us and act as if everything fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted July 26, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I don't know that it is an "issue"......I just don't think it's true, and it's hard for an untruth to be an issue because an untruth is a negative. There are people who seem intent that we be living in the end times though, which is what I would call creating an issue of something. We have been living in the "end times" ever since Jesus ascended to Heaven. Yes.............. And the times of today are not necessarily any more an "end time" than the times of Christ. I think there is a HUUUUU UUUUGE disconnect between our perception of time and God's perception of time, assuming He even bothers to perceive it or experience it. So do we just ignore what's going on around us and act as if everything fine? No. I had a pastor once say that you lived each day like it was your last because it could very well be, but make no decisions that you would forseeably regret at the end of a long life because you could very well have one. I think the notion of the end times is the same. He could come sooner or later, but He will come and we're to be ready whether is 5 seconds or five million years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekeratthesea Posted July 26, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 I don't know that it is an "issue"......I just don't think it's true, and it's hard for an untruth to be an issue because an untruth is a negative. There are people who seem intent that we be living in the end times though, which is what I would call creating an issue of something. We have been living in the "end times" ever since Jesus ascended to Heaven. Yes.............. And the times of today are not necessarily any more an "end time" than the times of Christ. I think there is a HUUUUU UUUUGE disconnect between our perception of time and God's perception of time, assuming He even bothers to perceive it or experience it. So do we just ignore what's going on around us and act as if everything fine? No........but for those who are on Armageddon Watch ........they should relax........we probably got it all wrong like always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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