The Green Revolution

[Matthitjah]

Grace tom you Heiress,

Yes, God gave Adam dominion but then Adam quickly turned it over to satan based on the same lie that the Greenies are advancing, "That man could be God." Adams dominion and authority were based upon his direct relationship with God.

The Creation was suubjected to vanity by Him who subjected such in Hope. That Hope isn't in a Green Utopia but the very Liberty of the sons and daughters of God.

Again, No one has advocated trashing the planet.

The issue isn't about money either, that is a blessing. The issue is about Liberty.

Peace,

Dave

[The Lorax]

Your only problem is that no one is advancing the thought of environmental ignorance.

Ignorance begets negligence.

The more you learn about the environment, the more you learn everything within it is interconnected. If you dump waste into the ocean, that waste will impact living systems. It's called cause and effect. Anti-environmentalists fundamentally deny this simple fact.

but then Adam quickly turned it over to satan based on the same lie that the Greenies are advancing, "That man could be God." Adams dominion and authority were based upon his direct relationship with God.

You're confused, Dave. To acknowledge that man damages his environment is not to claim that man is God. ...Far from it.

[The Lorax]

To allow finance to effect your ethical choices is the epitome of greediness and poor prioritization.

Very true.

There's nothing Christian about that mentality of entitlement.

That is like saying that God loves all people so no one will have the consequences of hell. The bible says "the wages of sin are death." God never promised to keep the earth in its original condition, he gave that responsibility to Adam, thus we have extinct species, and changing landforms in our wonderful world. We have chosen to deface environments to get the oil we rely on, what scripture is there to say we'll not have consequences for plucking this fruit?

Exactly.

4. When it is God's time and in his plan, the earth will be renewed (as per revelations...not an easy or enjoyable process), but until then I believe that we should be caring for everything that God has blessed us with.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just a few thoughts...

1. The Lord placed Adam in charge over the care of all the plants and animals of creation and the bible repeatedly speaks to our stewardship of all that has been given to us (not just money). Therefore, it is our biblical duty to maintain the earth and its creatures. If polar bears and jungle critters weren't important to God, he wouldn't have told Noah to get 2 of EVERYTHING.

The problem is that you assume we don't care about the environment and that we don't see a biblical mandate to care for everything in the earth. You are basically refuting an argument that has not been raised.

2. Financial issues need to be separated from moral issues. To allow finance to effect your ethical choices is the epitome of greediness and poor prioritization. It was this same pitfall that allowed slavery to be perpetuated in our nation for 100 years or so (pre-revolution included). Slave owners knew it wasn't the greatest situation but it was necessary to maintain financial responsibilities to that generation and future generations. Have we learned nothing?

We need to care about the earth because God entrusted the earth to our CARE...not to our DISPOSAL.

Actually God gave man the garden of Eden to take dominion over it. One thing to keep in mind is that the whole earth was not the same pristine environment that existed in the garden. The rest was wilderness, which is why it was such a pusnishment to banish man out of the garden.

It is God who upholds the earth, not man. It is God Himself who is responsible for maintaining nature. Man is incapable of doing so no matter how environmentally conscious he is. The Bible says that the Lord upholds all things "by His power" in the book of Colossians. He is the one who protects creation. Does that give us a license to be irresponsible with our resources? Of course not, but no amount of "green" is going to have all that much of an affect on the earth itself.

One can be environmentally conscious without "going green."

To say that God is the maintainer of earth and no matter how much we consume he will keep the provisions coming is to deny the true character of God.

Once again, the problem here is that no one is saying that. You are basically assigning values to our position in order to have something to say, which to be honest is "unethical."

That is like saying that God loves all people so no one will have the consequences of hell.

Actually even IF were saying that God will just "keep it coming" that would still bear no resemblance to the hell issue you raised. There really are no points of comparison.

God never promised to keep the earth in its original condition, he gave that responsibility to Adam, thus we have extinct species, and changing landforms in our wonderful world. We have chosen to deface environments to get the oil we rely on, what scripture is there to say we'll not have consequences for plucking this fruit?

God Himself, has done more damage to this earth than man ever has. One only needs to begin with the flood of Noah.

Even today, more oil seeps out into oceans from under the earth naturally than all of oil spills since 1989 combined. More Ozone damaging gas is emitted from volcanoes than in L.A. Frankly, the earth faces bigger threats from within itself without man than man can produce with cars and hairspray.

We need to take care of the environment, but we also need to recognize a sham and the green movement is just that.

[Axxman]

Hello H2thK...welcome to WB!! I have a few comments on what you said...

Just a few thoughts...

1. The Lord placed Adam in charge over the care of all the plants and animals of creation and the bible repeatedly speaks to our stewardship of all that has been given to us (not just money). Therefore, it is our biblical duty to maintain the earth and its creatures. If polar bears and jungle critters weren't important to God, he wouldn't have told Noah to get 2 of EVERYTHING.

Actually, God did NOT place Adam in charge over ALL the plants and animals of creation. God specifically stated that He created the Earth to be used and dominated by man. He placed Adam in charge of a small piece of creation, the Garden of Eden. God told Adam to tend to the Garden...that is hardly a command to maintain the Earth and its creatures. And yes, animals are important to God...but yet Jesus himself said that God holds man in higher regard.

2. Financial issues need to be separated from moral issues. To allow finance to effect your ethical choices is the epitome of greediness and poor prioritization. We need to care about the earth because God entrusted the earth to our CARE...not to our DISPOSAL.

I agree that they should be separated...but that doesn't mean you just throw out the financial issues. I would also disagree that God 'entrusted the Earth to our care.' That is not biblical. In fact, God did leave the Earth to our disposal. He created it for us to use and dominate and subdue. God wants us to be fruitful (that is to produce ALOT), he wants us to multiply (populate the Earth), and have dominion (that is to use, subjugate, subdue) the Earth...to our fulfillment...and His blessing.

3. To say that God is the maintainer of earth and no matter how much we consume he will keep the provisions coming is to deny the true character of God. That is like saying that God loves all people so no one will have the consequences of hell. The bible says "the wages of sin are death." God never promised to keep the earth in its original condition, he gave that responsibility to Adam, thus we have extinct species, and changing landforms in our wonderful world. We have chosen to deface environments to get the oil we rely on, what scripture is there to say we'll not have consequences for plucking this fruit.

You are comparing Gods love for people...to creation. This is exactly the message that the religion of environmentalism preaches. It is false. God loves us MORE than he loves the created thing. And while you are correct that God never promised to keep the Earth in any condition...it is absolutely wrong to think that He left us in charge of keeping it in its original condition. God desires that ALL men come to Him...He has NO such desire for the Earth to last forever. God never said (or intended), "Here is a World with tons of resources....don't touch them, don't use them, and don't mess up the place." God gave us these resources to use, to our benefit...he doesn't care if we displace dirt, and rock, and water to use it. There isn't one shred of biblical evidence that using, or physically damaging the Earth (i.e. dirt, stone, water) incurs God's wrath. God is concerned with men and their souls...everything else is secondary.

see ya round,

axx

[The Lorax]

I agree that they should be separated...but that doesn't mean you just throw out the financial issues.

No one's saying we should throw out financial investments. We're just thinking in the long term. Thoughts like "what happens when the oil is gone?"

In fact, God did leave the Earth to our disposal. He created it for us to use and dominate and subdue. God wants us to be fruitful (that is to produce ALOT), he wants us to multiply (populate the Earth), and have dominion (that is to use, subjugate, subdue) the Earth...to our fulfillment...and His blessing.

As a propertied citizen, your assets are at your disposal. Do you then dispose of them? No...you use them wisely and mindfully. You realize there are consequences.

Nowhere does the Bible say God will clean up our messes and renew resources when we exhaust them.

You are comparing Gods love for people...to creation.

When did Heiress make that comparison?

And while you are correct that God never promised to keep the Earth in any condition...it is absolutely wrong to think that He left us in charge of keeping it in its original condition.

No one thinks we should keep the Earth in its original condition--that's already impossible.

God never said (or intended), "Here is a World with tons of resources....don't touch them, don't use them, and don't mess up the place." God gave us these resources to use, to our benefit...he doesn't care if we displace dirt, and rock, and water to use it. There isn't one shred of biblical evidence that using, or physically damaging the Earth (i.e. dirt, stone, water) incurs God's wrath. God is concerned with men and their souls...everything else is secondary.

No one here has said God told us not to touch the Earth. You're turning a matter of common sense into a theological straw-man. The issue is keeping the Earth is a nice state that 7 billion people can survive in; a state that our grandchildren can live comfortably in. In case you didn't know, there haven't always been billions of people on Earth. There haven't always been cities, highways, jets, mines, and oil rigs. But there are now, and it's having an effect. The least we can do is try to MINIMIZE that effect. No one is saying we should dismantle civilization and kill ourselves for the good of God or nature.

It seems the only way anti-environmentalists can argue is to hugely misrepresent everyone else's point of view.

[LadyRaven]

I think a good deal of the trouble here is nit picking:

a) People dont want to be part of the 'green revolution' and 'go green' while they have no problem being 'environmentally friendly' or 'ecologically conscious.' I dont see any difference other than labels. Nobody said you had to worship Gaea or become a member of Greenpeace in order to stop air pollution did they?

b) People dont want to be commanded to do any one particular thing, even if they believe the concepts are good. And in a free country they should expect to be free to choose.

There is a point at which it can be taken too far. There is a town somewhere I read that the police go through your trash to see if you are recycling. That's too far. Putting things on the market and letting people choose them is not. If you think the price for a cfl bulb is too high, dont get one. As I said before, I wont own a green car unless someone takes the GPS hookup out of it. The price of everything goes down as people start buying enough of them for production costs to justify having a lot on the market.

[Matthitjah]

Your only problem is that no one is advancing the thought of environmental ignorance.

Ignorance begets negligence.

The more you learn about the environment, the more you learn everything within it is interconnected. If you dump waste into the ocean, that waste will impact living systems. It's called cause and effect. Anti-environmentalists fundamentally deny this simple fact.

but then Adam quickly turned it over to satan based on the same lie that the Greenies are advancing, "That man could be God." Adams dominion and authority were based upon his direct relationship with God.

You're confused, Dave. To acknowledge that man damages his environment is not to claim that man is God. ...Far from it.

Lorax,

Ignorance begets negligence.

Thanks for your vote of confidence.

The more you learn about the environment, the more you learn everything within it is interconnected.

1Co

[The Lorax]

You feel misrepresented, Dave. You feel people are saying you want to trash the planet. That's not what I'm saying. I know you're a great guy and a true Christian with good intentions. What worries me is that you don't seem to think Earth CAN be trashed. You seem to think the environment isn't of any concern. That's what I disagree with, based on evidence.

If you look around, you will see mass pollution, disappearing water supplies, disappearing gas, disappearing forests, spreading deserts and other undeniably NEGATIVE changes with undeniably HUMAN causes. Are these imaginary, dave?

1Co 2:2

For I determined not to know anything among you, except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

I don't need to know anything more than that to have insight and wisdom into the Creation especially when filtered through that lens.

You follow politics, do you not?

2Pe 3:7

But the heavens and the earth, which now are, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

It appears from this verse that God Himself with dissolute this earth and dispose of the ungodly at the same time.

As you feel you are being misrepresented, Dave, so do I. For instance, I'm not some flaming alarmist. I don't claim global warming or pollution will be the end of the world or the end of man. However, these things will make living conditions worse before Jesus comes back. Going green makes life a little cleaner and a little better, in the same way that cleaning your house and spending wisely makes life a little cleaner and better. That's all I'm saying.

Is He an anti-environmentalist and less than wise, some might say ignorant, to use and disabuse His Creation of sin in such a manner?

God created the environment, so you could say he's the ultimate environmentalist.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Lorax,

If you look around, you will see mass pollution, disappearing water supplies, disappearing gas, disappearing forests, spreading deserts and other undeniably NEGATIVE changes with undeniably HUMAN causes. The question is: do you want to look around or is it easier not to?

Most of this is opinion and rhetoric and not proven fact.

However, these things will make living conditions worse. That's all I'm saying.

The Bible say's that these things will undoubtedly get worse but that as that happens that we are to be consumed with one thing;

Lu