must be baptised with water or in water

[Doyne]

I personally have been baptised 3 times.... as baptist at 12 years.... came up the same sinner I was going down.

Later a pentecostal insisted I had to be baptised in the name of Jesus so i let him.....also came up a sinner still.

You can get an emotional experience and be baptised 50 times you will still come up a sinner......saved by grace alone. and that by believeing in God who sent Jesus for us. I say this because of John 5:24 and I trust what is recorded that Jesus said far more than what Peter taught. Not to disrespect Peter but he dosen't exactly have the greatest track record acording to the other scriptures written including the 4 gospels. I'm refering to where Paul had to challenge him for teaching you must be circumsized and separating himself from the gentiles when James showed up from Jerusalem. The point here is to look at the big picture revealed by the whole word of God and not just one liners.

John 5:24 says it all for me. However a person who has been saved, and chooses God will do everything and anything within his power to please his dear father, including Baptism as well as many other works...after all it is the works we do that clearly demonstrates what we believe (our faith) far more that the vain words we speak.

Scripture reference:

Joh:5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

If you Believe God:

M't:22:37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

M't:22:38: This is the first and great commandment.

M't:22:39: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

M't:22:40: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Peter and Paul:

Ga:2:11: But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Ga:2:12: For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

Ga:2:13: And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

Ga:2:14: But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Ga:2:15: We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

Ga:2:16: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ga:2:17: But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Ga:2:18: For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Ga:2:19: For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Ga:2:20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ga:2:21: I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

[Jeremiah Joel]

Running Gator:

So yes baptism is necessary for salvation.

Jeremiah

Does this mean that we have to do a certian act(s) to earn our salvation?

what of the man who dies on his way to be baptized, is he lost?

In answer to your question Runniinggator: Is salvation of God or man? Is it God that declares what salvation is, and what you do to get it, or is it man?

The Word of God says what it says. In Acts 10 & 11 which is the story of the household of Cornnelius, and salvation being given to him and those with him. Which I shall quote to make things easier.

In the book of Acts there is the story of Cornelius repeated by Peter to the Jews: Acts 11:13-18 "And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning (Acts 2:4 & Acts 10:43-46). Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life".

After Cornelius and those that were there received the baptism of the Holy Ghost Peter said:"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded (ordered) them to be baptized in the name of the Lord (Jesus)......" (Acts 10:47-48)

It is clear that the Jews that heard the story of Cornelius, understood that by what happened to them, that they had be granted repentance unto life.

So your question(s) are:

Does this mean that we have to do a certian act(s) to earn our salvation?

what of the man who dies on his way to be baptized, is he lost?

Answer to question #1: Do you not know that faith without works ({acts} as you put it) is dead being alone? My faith is in what the Word of God speaks. If the Word of God says that I must be born of water and the Spirit,, then that is what I must do. God is the one that has spoken it, so that is what I do.

Earning salvation, would be connected with doing something that God has not spoken to do, thinking that God now must save you because of what you have done. Rather than grace, in that God has spoken/given to man what he must do to be saved.

No one can take away from the fact that the house of Cornelius was commanded (ordered) to be baptized...NO ONE!! Peter being the one that spoke to Cornelius, and also the one that God gave the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

Answer to question #2: If Christ said: " Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". How would you then answer your question?

Jeremiah

Edited November 13, 2008 by Jeremiah Joel

[exrockstar]

I personally have been baptised 3 times.... as baptist at 12 years.... came up the same sinner I was going down.

Later a pentecostal insisted I had to be baptised in the name of Jesus so i let him.....also came up a sinner still.

You can get an emotional experience and be baptised 50 times you will still come up a sinner......saved by grace alone. and that by believeing in God who sent Jesus for us.

I lost a friendship with someone because I have not been baptized once and she talked to me on how i should be baptized.

She was baptized 3 times and still found no satisfaction in her experience. She still wonders if she's saved.

It makes people feel good when they go through motion or experience of water hitting their body but that does not save one.

however, if one feels energized then by all means do it. I dont need to run around feeling energized....I already am energized.

Many miss the point on what it symbolized and now make it part of the agenda.

que sera sera.

[Smalcald]

Baptism is real, it is not a show or something that we do or simply an outward ceremony done by men; thus certainly it is not a work at all; it is grace. It is something that God does for us a blessing a grace it is not about us really it is about the grace of God, it means something tangible and real.

But it is not something that we will agree on here on this board.

[Jeremiah Joel]

Glorywatch:

So yes baptism is necessary for salvation.

Jeremiah

If baptism is necessary for salvation then why did Jesus tell the thief on the cross, "THIS day you will be with me in paradise"? Did Jesus lie to the thief? Or did the Roman soldiers take him down and baptism him and then put him back on the cross? Come on...plenty of people throughout history have made "death bed" professions of faith. Are they not saved?

Did Jesus HAVE to be baptized? Of course not. It was a symbolic representation of his death, burial and resurrection. Jesus did all that was necessary for salvation on the cross. We cannot add to it. We can however follow they example he set by being baptized as our first act of obedience to show our death, burial and resurrection to a new life in Christ.

The thief on the cross was told this day (that very day) you will be with me in paradise.

The question then is, where did Jesus go that very day?... Heaven, or the grave for three days? The thief on the cross died under O.T. not the N.T.. Paradise is a term used by the Jews as a part of Hades (hell/grave), where the souls wait for the resurrection. Some may say it refers to heaven.... which is impossible because Jesus did not go to heaven that very day, but the grave for three days and three nights. Death bed confessions??? I see no death bed confessions in the book of Acts, or no Apostle leading a person in a sinners prayer for salvation, or any confession (i.e. words) then declaring a that a person has been granted repentance unto life... they always did something (according to what the Word said)

Saved is a very distorted term used within the religious circles.

YES JESUS DID HAVE TO BE BAPTIZED!!!!! It fulfilled all righteousness. Jesus himself said so. (Matt 3:13-17) We also are buried with him "BY BATISM" into death, that like as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (Rm 6:1-7). Baptism is the New Testament circumsission (Col 2:10-14)

Did not Jesus speak "Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"........????

Jeremiah

[Rick-Parker]

But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. (Acts 8:12, ESV).

The men and women in this passage lived in the town of Samaria. Philip, one of Christ's disciples has come to the city to proclaim "to them the Christ" (Acts 8:5). Philip "preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ" (Acts 8:12).These people believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God. And what did they immediately do? "They were baptized, both men and women." They immediately wanted to publicly acknowledge their brand-new spiritual condition by the outward, public act of being baptized.

Remember the day you received Christ into your life? When you accepted Christ, you were "baptized" by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ and, perhaps, you acknowledged your new faith with physical baptism. Thank God today for that moment in your life when you believed in Jesus and became filled with the Holy Spirit. Thank Him for helping you come to belief in Him. Thank Him for providing a symbol (water baptism) to announce your new life in Christ to others and to cement your faith and desire to walk with Him.

[Smalcald]

So yes baptism is necessary for salvation.

Jeremiah

If baptism is necessary for salvation then why did Jesus tell the thief on the cross, "THIS day you will be with me in paradise"? Did Jesus lie to the thief? Or did the Roman soldiers take him down and baptism him and then put him back on the cross? Come on...plenty of people throughout history have made "death bed" professions of faith. Are they not saved?

Did Jesus HAVE to be baptized? Of course not. It was a symbolic representation of his death, burial and resurrection. Jesus did all that was necessary for salvation on the cross. We cannot add to it. We can however follow they example he set by being baptized as our first act of obedience to show our death, burial and resurrection to a new life in Christ.

Hi Glory,

I think it might be helpful to look at what happened when Christ was baptized.

15Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented.

16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Certainly to have these things happen with the Baptism of Christ, one must come to some sort of conclusion that Baptism is real and tangible, not simply an outward deed or some sort of symbol that we perform. The Holy Spirit is real and tangible.

That is just my take and I do agree that Jesus did not "need" baptism in order to be saved or any such strangeness as that, but that He showed us right here what Baptism is.

I do not believe that you MUST be baptized to be saved as faith alone in Christ saves us; however no Christian who does have faith will deny baptism if they at all have the chance to be baptized. The thief on the cross if he could jump down after being saved would have wanted to be baptized.

Anyway that is my take and what my congregation teaches (plus a whole bunch of other stuff to long winded to get into here), but it is a contentious issue and has been for 500 years.

[glorywatch]

Glorywatch:

So yes baptism is necessary for salvation.

Jeremiah

If baptism is necessary for salvation then why did Jesus tell the thief on the cross, "THIS day you will be with me in paradise"? Did Jesus lie to the thief? Or did the Roman soldiers take him down and baptism him and then put him back on the cross? Come on...plenty of people throughout history have made "death bed" professions of faith. Are they not saved?

Did Jesus HAVE to be baptized? Of course not. It was a symbolic representation of his death, burial and resurrection. Jesus did all that was necessary for salvation on the cross. We cannot add to it. We can however follow they example he set by being baptized as our first act of obedience to show our death, burial and resurrection to a new life in Christ.

The thief on the cross was told this day (that very day) you will be with me in paradise.

The question then is, where did Jesus go that very day?... Heaven, or the grave for three days? The thief on the cross died under O.T. not the N.T.. Paradise is a term used by the Jews as a part of Hades (hell/grave), where the souls wait for the resurrection. Some may say it refers to heaven.... which is impossible because Jesus did not go to heaven that very day, but the grave for three days and three nights. Death bed confessions??? I see no death bed confessions in the book of Acts, or no Apostle leading a person in a sinners prayer for salvation, or any confession (i.e. words) then declaring a that a person has been granted repentance unto life... they always did something (according to what the Word said)

Saved is a very distorted term used within the religious circles.

YES JESUS DID HAVE TO BE BAPTIZED!!!!! It fulfilled all righteousness. Jesus himself said so. (Matt 3:13-17) We also are buried with him "BY BATISM" into death, that like as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (Rm 6:1-7). Baptism is the New Testament circumsission (Col 2:10-14)

Did not Jesus speak "Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"........????

Jeremiah

Jeremiah, Jesus told the thief, in essence, that he was saved by his faith, baptism or not. Where he (the theif) literally went that day, I don't know and neither do you, but I do know that he was saved by his faith.

I was not implying there were death bed confessions of faith in Acts. But I do know of people who were dying who were witnessed to and who acknowledged they need a Savior and then died within days of acknowledgeing Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Not being able to be baptised does not make their faith any less real than those who are able. God will save whom HE will save. Scripture tells us that the OT saints were saved by faith.

I was not asking if Jesus had to be baptised to fulfill his ministry I was asking did he have to be baptized for salvation and the answer is NO.

Yes Jesus said, Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Who is the LIVING WATER? JESUS. If we are not born of the LIVING WATER and of THE HOLY SPIRIT then we are not saved by our faith.

As for as the word 'Saved" being a distorted term, you might want to check out how many times its used in Scripture starting in Genesis 47:25 and ending in Revelation 21:24. The word saved is used in 33 different books of the Bible so I am not sure what you mean about it being a distorted term. God didn't think it was so distorted.

[glorywatch]

So yes baptism is necessary for salvation.

Jeremiah

If baptism is necessary for salvation then why did Jesus tell the thief on the cross, "THIS day you will be with me in paradise"? Did Jesus lie to the thief? Or did the Roman soldiers take him down and baptism him and then put him back on the cross? Come on...plenty of people throughout history have made "death bed" professions of faith. Are they not saved?

Did Jesus HAVE to be baptized? Of course not. It was a symbolic representation of his death, burial and resurrection. Jesus did all that was necessary for salvation on the cross. We cannot add to it. We can however follow they example he set by being baptized as our first act of obedience to show our death, burial and resurrection to a new life in Christ.

Hi Glory,

I think it might be helpful to look at what happened when Christ was baptized.

15Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented.

16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Certainly to have these things happen with the Baptism of Christ, one must come to some sort of conclusion that Baptism is real and tangible, not simply an outward deed or some sort of symbol that we perform. The Holy Spirit is real and tangible.

That is just my take and I do agree that Jesus did not "need" baptism in order to be saved or any such strangeness as that, but that He showed us right here what Baptism is.

I do not believe that you MUST be baptized to be saved as faith alone in Christ saves us; however no Christian who does have faith will deny baptism if they at all have the chance to be baptized. The thief on the cross if he could jump down after being saved would have wanted to be baptized.

Anyway that is my take and what my congregation teaches (plus a whole bunch of other stuff to long winded to get into here), but it is a contentious issue and has been for 500 years.

Smalclad, I agree. Basically my questions were rhetorical.