Seeker100

Your welcome. I guess most people want to know if you have studied the bible. Which came first: the chicken or the egg? Permie, I can learn from you!

How do you know it is against God? where do you get that understanding? yes! where does one get that understanding? after all, the inner voice in her heart told her to do it, and she did it because she LOVED her children and wanted to save them from hell. how come she was wrong? she heard the voice and responded out of love, and that is how we are to know something is really God's voice, according to all you have written. Scripture tells us that Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. To me it seems to be obvious that any voice telling a person to do something that would result in those outcomes is clearly not hearing from God. The love that is God would be exemplified by the following verses: 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails.... 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 and part of 8 Any actions with these results would be God's love. yes, but how do we know that if we don't study scripture? seeker believes that the written word of God is SECONDARY to our feelings. (that inner voice of love). at least that's what he has said, and numerous attempts to get him to clarify himself have resulted only in refusal to explain. God wrote the bible and thus He is the one to teach us what it says. I did not say that the bible is secondary to anything. I say that our understanding of the bible must come fromm God if our reading of the bible is to be true. and so our understanding of the bible comes from what? that inner voice? but how do we know that inner voice is of God without FIRST studying the bible? what is the yardstick seeker? is the yardstick "love"? that feel-good feeling we get? that if it tickles our ears it's truly God because it feels like love? understanding of God's word, and His character, come from STUDYING the bible. the Holy Spirit gives us understanding, not revelation. it is not mysticism. it's pretty straight forward. but we can NOT rely on some "inner voice" or some perception of "love" or on our heart. scripture tells us not to do that. why? because it's deceptive. the ONLY way to know if some "inner voice" is God is to make sure it lines up with scripture. and how do we do that? we study the scripture and see if it says the same thing our inner voice is telling us. God is not deceptive. I have faith in His word over your interpretation of the bible. i never said God is deceptive. i said that the BIBLE says that our hearts are deceptive. that's not interpretation, it's right there in the bible. have you checked what i have to say against the word of God? or are you just assuming that i'm "interpreting" incorrectly and that you are correct. LOL it has possibly got to that point.

I do not even know about htis case. It must be something happening in your country. I know nothing of it. From what you write, perhaps she made it up or maybe she has some sort of mental illness. I do not know. I am not one to make a judgement on this and neither are you. You in your arm chair do not know shy she did it. It is between that lady and the Lord. i'm not asking you to make a judgment. i'm not making one either. this case happened 10 years ago, and she was declared insane. but SHE THOUGHT the voice was God, and she followed that voice because it was LOVE. so therefore, you MUST answer the question that has been asked a million times by now. how can one know for certain that the inner voice they hear is actually God? that is not asking for you to judge, it's asking you to EXPLAIN YOUR POSITION. If you take it this far, how can you even believe your own eyes? I mean some people are insane and they see things. Thus how can you know if what you see is real? Some people are crazy and they see things that are not there. Because some people are crazy I am not going to stop believing what I see. Are you?

sadly, I dont think he will ever be able to give us an answer to this question. He is stuck without an answer, if he says from the written Word, then his whole stance is shot down. if he says from his "inner voice" then he cant say what she did was wrong. Didn't Seeker say that God's inner voice is love, and is drowning children love? Very good point. Seeker as much as said this when he said: if you wanted to talk about ladies drowning children or homosexuality, start another thread. THAT is clearly not what Seeker is speaking of. That's what I saw too. Agreed. Hey Thanks Permie

How do you know it is against God? where do you get that understanding? yes! where does one get that understanding? after all, the inner voice in her heart told her to do it, and she did it because she LOVED her children and wanted to save them from hell. how come she was wrong? she heard the voice and responded out of love, and that is how we are to know something is really God's voice, according to all you have written. Scripture tells us that Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. To me it seems to be obvious that any voice telling a person to do something that would result in those outcomes is clearly not hearing from God. The love that is God would be exemplified by the following verses: 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails.... 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 and part of 8 Any actions with these results would be God's love. yes, but how do we know that if we don't study scripture? seeker believes that the written word of God is SECONDARY to our feelings. (that inner voice of love). at least that's what he has said, and numerous attempts to get him to clarify himself have resulted only in refusal to explain. God wrote the bible and thus He is the one to teach us what it says. I did not say that the bible is secondary to anything. I say that our understanding of the bible must come fromm God if our reading of the bible is to be true. and so our understanding of the bible comes from what? that inner voice? but how do we know that inner voice is of God without FIRST studying the bible? what is the yardstick seeker? is the yardstick "love"? that feel-good feeling we get? that if it tickles our ears it's truly God because it feels like love? understanding of God's word, and His character, come from STUDYING the bible. the Holy Spirit gives us understanding, not revelation. it is not mysticism. it's pretty straight forward. but we can NOT rely on some "inner voice" or some perception of "love" or on our heart. scripture tells us not to do that. why? because it's deceptive. the ONLY way to know if some "inner voice" is God is to make sure it lines up with scripture. and how do we do that? we study the scripture and see if it says the same thing our inner voice is telling us. God is not deceptive. I have faith in His word over your interpretation of the bible.

I do not even know about htis case. It must be something happening in your country. I know nothing of it. From what you write, perhaps she made it up or maybe she has some sort of mental illness. I do not know. I am not one to make a judgement on this and neither are you. You in your arm chair do not know shy she did it. It is between that lady and the Lord.

How do you know it is against God? where do you get that understanding? yes! where does one get that understanding? after all, the inner voice in her heart told her to do it, and she did it because she LOVED her children and wanted to save them from hell. how come she was wrong? she heard the voice and responded out of love, and that is how we are to know something is really God's voice, according to all you have written. Scripture tells us that Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. To me it seems to be obvious that any voice telling a person to do something that would result in those outcomes is clearly not hearing from God. The love that is God would be exemplified by the following verses: 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails.... 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 and part of 8 Any actions with these results would be God's love. yes, but how do we know that if we don't study scripture? seeker believes that the written word of God is SECONDARY to our feelings. (that inner voice of love). at least that's what he has said, and numerous attempts to get him to clarify himself have resulted only in refusal to explain. God wrote the bible and thus He is the one to teach us what it says. I did not say that the bible is secondary to anything. I say that our understanding of the bible must come fromm God if our reading of the bible is to be true.

I know you are not a big fan of the written Word, but could you offer a verse or two to back up the bolded statement by you? or is this just something your inner voice told you? Matthew 25 34 to 46. Also outside biblical sources: read a bit of the Catholic saints Mother Teresa and Dorothy day. Check out a bit of Tony Campolo too. Of course read some George Fox. One does not leave sin if one does not serve Jesus in others. It is the spirit that reveals this. Draw close to God. I am sorry but I have to go now. I have to get some things done in real world. This place is addictive!!!! God Bless!!

Good Post CBE!

That's not an option. We are commanded to go out into the world and spread the gospel. And part of that gospel is telling people they are not good - they are wicked, and wretched, and are in need of a savior. Of course!!! I am just trying to explain things to you on this thread. I was just trying to lead you through a few things.

The Bible says if one is not saved, then God's WRATH abides in them - not Jesus. "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath abides on him." (John 3:36) This is true but you are not understanding serving Jesus in everyone. Heck, I don't even understand that statement you just made! Okay let us look at it this way. For now don't worry about other people if they are good bad etc. Just you and the Lord. You love God yes? Of course You want to do things for something you love? Of course You hear God's voice in your heart? Of course God is your joy? Of course God to you is love? Of course Okay now that God is your meaning and purpose and love you want to serve Him. You want to do things for Him. God is the love for others. Jesus is the love for others in our world. Do things to Jesus as you love Him. If you don't want to do things for Jesus (the love for others) how can you love Him?

The Bible says if one is not saved, then God's WRATH abides in them - not Jesus. "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath abides on him." (John 3:36) This is true but you are not understanding serving Jesus in everyone.

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I am not saying that everyone has the love of Jesus in them. I am saying you can meet Jesus in everyone even if they hate Jesus you can meet Jesus in them. This happens when we become born again. Becoming born again is mystical and is a gift from the Holy Ghost. So - even if they HATE Jesus we can meet Jesus in them? Just how does that happen? You throw being born again out there but it has nothing to do with how people who HATE Jesus actually HAVE Jesus in them.... Did George Fox explain this? Jesus is love. Jesus is love for other people. Say you meet your friend. You love him so much but he hates God because he wants to be rich and have as much money as possible. You still love him though as God loves him. When you love him you serve love which is God (Jesus). Thus you meet Jesus in him even if he hates God. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost comes and opens one's eyes to this. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost loves others thorugh us. We see Jesus in them and they see Jesus in us. This is regular Christianity. Grace to you, The Jesus you see in the other is not His Spirit but the fact that he/she is made in the image of God. Do you agree? Peace, Dave Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation; Neither shall they say, Lo here! or lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Now the Pharisees were not believers, nor did they hear the words of God, at least so as they knew. And in another verse it is explained that they would not enter in, but here we see that Jesus Christ, our Lord, told them that the kingdom of God was within them. Is this not so, or how do you explain this verse? Jesus was telling them that the Kingdom was already amidst them in His person and that the Kingdom does not come from Observation or practice but comes from within the born again heart. This does not support that everyone including the nonbeliever has Jesus in them. Peace, Dave When I am talking about Jesus being in everyone I am not talking of everyone obeying Jesus or eveyone being born again. I am explaining what sees when one becomes born again of the Spirit. Funny.....I've never seen Jesus in any sinners. But I have seen, sensed and felt the demons of darkness in them. The demon possessed man in the bible certainly did not have Jesus in him, but had enough demons to destroy 2,000 pigs. After he was set free and delivered from the devils his mind was made whole. I'm getting concerned about you Seeker (sorry I called you my sister, I didn't realize you were male). I'm going to pray for you as I believe that you mean well, but are hopelessly in scriptural error. And I'm doing this in love....that's all that matters....right? Do you love sinners? Do you care for them? Do you love those that are bad to you? Jesus is the love for these people. Serve it and see if you see Jesus.

you have been asked at least 15 times about these things, and you have never once answerd the questions, perhaps it is you that needs to focus. If this is all about love, and nothing else matters, which is what you have said, then as long as the homosexuals are in love, they are good to go and in God's will, the heck with that silly written word. As long as the lady killed her kids out of love to keep them safe, then she was in God's will, according to what you have said in this thread. If you want to talk about ladies killing their kids and homosexuals start another thread. you are working very hard to avoid having to back up anything you have said with scripture. we're not going to start another thread. YOU said that if the voice we hear is love, then it's of God. so how do you reconcile these acts with God's character? Well perhaps they are not God's character. What is that to me. My responsibility is to obey God in my life. Others are responsible for theirs. what is it to you?????????? YOU said that if they heard the inner voice of love, then it was God's voice! their actions were the direct result of them believing to have acted not only out of love, but in accordance with God's will! ANSWER THE QUESTION! how can one discern that it is truly God's voice they are hearing? by what yardstick do they measure right from wrong? someone remind me to go finish my housework, i'm making a liar out of myself now every second i stay on this thread. I never said that you are trying to twist things to get me to say that.

you have been asked at least 15 times about these things, and you have never once answerd the questions, perhaps it is you that needs to focus. If this is all about love, and nothing else matters, which is what you have said, then as long as the homosexuals are in love, they are good to go and in God's will, the heck with that silly written word. As long as the lady killed her kids out of love to keep them safe, then she was in God's will, according to what you have said in this thread. If you want to talk about ladies killing their kids and homosexuals start another thread. you are working very hard to avoid having to back up anything you have said with scripture. we're not going to start another thread. YOU said that if the voice we hear is love, then it's of God. so how do you reconcile these acts with God's character? Well perhaps they are not God's character. What is that to me. My responsibility is to obey God in my life. Others are responsible for theirs.

you are the one that said all that matters is love and what your inner voice says to you. but you wont address these things? why is that, even though they are about love and listening to your inner voice. God is their judge not me and not you. so then, in your view, we have no real way to know if we are good or not till we die and meet God face to face? if this is the case, how can you be sure, or even hopeful, that your inner voice is the right one and theirs is wrong? They have just as much love as you. You certainly love to be argumentative about nothing. If a lady kills her kids I would say with my understanding that that is against God. That is not love. The judgement of hte action however is between God and her. Perhaps there is insanity I don't know and neither do you.

I am not saying that everyone has the love of Jesus in them. I am saying you can meet Jesus in everyone even if they hate Jesus you can meet Jesus in them. This happens when we become born again. Becoming born again is mystical and is a gift from the Holy Ghost. So - even if they HATE Jesus we can meet Jesus in them? Just how does that happen? You throw being born again out there but it has nothing to do with how people who HATE Jesus actually HAVE Jesus in them.... Did George Fox explain this? Jesus is love. Jesus is love for other people. Say you meet your friend. You love him so much but he hates God because he wants to be rich and have as much money as possible. You still love him though as God loves him. When you love him you serve love which is God (Jesus). Thus you meet Jesus in him even if he hates God. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost comes and opens one's eyes to this. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost loves others thorugh us. We see Jesus in them and they see Jesus in us. This is regular Christianity. Grace to you, The Jesus you see in the other is not His Spirit but the fact that he/she is made in the image of God. Do you agree? Peace, Dave Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation; Neither shall they say, Lo here! or lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Now the Pharisees were not believers, nor did they hear the words of God, at least so as they knew. And in another verse it is explained that they would not enter in, but here we see that Jesus Christ, our Lord, told them that the kingdom of God was within them. Is this not so, or how do you explain this verse? Jesus was telling them that the Kingdom was already amidst them in His person and that the Kingdom does not come from Observation or practice but comes from within the born again heart. This does not support that everyone including the nonbeliever has Jesus in them. Peace, Dave When I am talking about Jesus being in everyone I am not talking of everyone obeying Jesus or eveyone being born again. I am explaining what sees when one becomes born again of the Spirit.

you are the one that said all that matters is love and what your inner voice says to you. but you wont address these things? why is that, even though they are about love and listening to your inner voice. God is their judge not me and not you.

you have been asked at least 15 times about these things, and you have never once answerd the questions, perhaps it is you that needs to focus. If this is all about love, and nothing else matters, which is what you have said, then as long as the homosexuals are in love, they are good to go and in God's will, the heck with that silly written word. As long as the lady killed her kids out of love to keep them safe, then she was in God's will, according to what you have said in this thread. If you want to talk about ladies killing their kids and homosexuals start another thread.

I am not saying that everyone has the love of Jesus in them. I am saying you can meet Jesus in everyone even if they hate Jesus you can meet Jesus in them. This happens when we become born again. Becoming born again is mystical and is a gift from the Holy Ghost. So - even if they HATE Jesus we can meet Jesus in them? Just how does that happen? You throw being born again out there but it has nothing to do with how people who HATE Jesus actually HAVE Jesus in them.... Did George Fox explain this? Jesus is love. Jesus is love for other people. Say you meet your friend. You love him so much but he hates God because he wants to be rich and have as much money as possible. You still love him though as God loves him. When you love him you serve love which is God (Jesus). Thus you meet Jesus in him even if he hates God. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost comes and opens one's eyes to this. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost loves others thorugh us. We see Jesus in them and they see Jesus in us. This is regular Christianity. Grace to you, The Jesus you see in the other is not His Spirit but the fact that he/she is made in the image of God. Do you agree? Peace, Dave I agree that the other is made in the image of God but when one is born again one sees Jesus in others. One has to meet Jesus in others or one is still living in sin. Jesus is love for others. He came to earth so we could serve Him. He is the Light of hte world. John 3:21. He who does what is right (we are talking a non Christian here) comes to the light that his deeds may become manifested as having been wrought in God. A non-Christian that by grace has come to love and serve God finds that he still does not do things physically for God. The non-Christian then who loves God then accepts Jesus as God so that he can serve Jesus in everyone he meets. Grace to you, The Word of God, our re-proof for our Doctrine, states that the Blood of Jesus Saves us from sin, perod. Here is a portion of our Statement of Faith;

I am not saying that everyone has the love of Jesus in them. I am saying you can meet Jesus in everyone even if they hate Jesus you can meet Jesus in them. This happens when we become born again. Becoming born again is mystical and is a gift from the Holy Ghost. So - even if they HATE Jesus we can meet Jesus in them? Just how does that happen? You throw being born again out there but it has nothing to do with how people who HATE Jesus actually HAVE Jesus in them.... Did George Fox explain this? Jesus is love. Jesus is love for other people. Say you meet your friend. You love him so much but he hates God because he wants to be rich and have as much money as possible. You still love him though as God loves him. When you love him you serve love which is God (Jesus). Thus you meet Jesus in him even if he hates God. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost comes and opens one's eyes to this. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost loves others thorugh us. We see Jesus in them and they see Jesus in us. This is regular Christianity. Grace to you, The Jesus you see in the other is not His Spirit but the fact that he/she is made in the image of God. Do you agree? Peace, Dave I agree that the other is made in the image of God but when one is born again one sees Jesus in others. One has to meet Jesus in others or one is still living in sin. Jesus is love for others. He came to earth so we could serve Him. He is the Light of hte world. John 3:21. He who does what is right (we are talking a non Christian here) comes to the light that his deeds may become manifested as having been wrought in God. A non-Christian that by grace has come to love and serve God finds that he still does not do things physically for God. The non-Christian then who loves God then accepts Jesus as God so that he can serve Jesus in everyone he meets. Supporting scripture?? John 3:21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

I am not saying that everyone has the love of Jesus in them. I am saying you can meet Jesus in everyone even if they hate Jesus you can meet Jesus in them. This happens when we become born again. Becoming born again is mystical and is a gift from the Holy Ghost. So - even if they HATE Jesus we can meet Jesus in them? Just how does that happen? You throw being born again out there but it has nothing to do with how people who HATE Jesus actually HAVE Jesus in them.... Did George Fox explain this? Jesus is love. Jesus is love for other people. Say you meet your friend. You love him so much but he hates God because he wants to be rich and have as much money as possible. You still love him though as God loves him. When you love him you serve love which is God (Jesus). Thus you meet Jesus in him even if he hates God. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost comes and opens one's eyes to this. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost loves others thorugh us. We see Jesus in them and they see Jesus in us. This is regular Christianity. Grace to you, The Jesus you see in the other is not His Spirit but the fact that he/she is made in the image of God. Do you agree? Peace, Dave I agree that the other is made in the image of God but when one is born again one sees Jesus in others. One has to meet Jesus in others or one is still living in sin. Jesus is love for others. He came to earth so we could serve Him. He is the Light of hte world. John 3:21. He who does what is right (we are talking a non Christian here) comes to the light that his deeds may become manifested as having been wrought in God. A non-Christian that by grace has come to love and serve God finds that he still does not do things physically for God. The non-Christian then who loves God then accepts Jesus as God so that he can serve Jesus in everyone he meets.

that is unbiblical. The bible can only be understood with the wisdom of the Holy Ghost.