Seeker100

I am not saying that everyone has the love of Jesus in them. I am saying you can meet Jesus in everyone even if they hate Jesus you can meet Jesus in them. This happens when we become born again. Becoming born again is mystical and is a gift from the Holy Ghost. So - even if they HATE Jesus we can meet Jesus in them? Just how does that happen? You throw being born again out there but it has nothing to do with how people who HATE Jesus actually HAVE Jesus in them.... Did George Fox explain this? Jesus is love. Jesus is love for other people. Say you meet your friend. You love him so much but he hates God because he wants to be rich and have as much money as possible. You still love him though as God loves him. When you love him you serve love which is God (Jesus). Thus you meet Jesus in him even if he hates God. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost comes and opens one's eyes to this. When one becomes born again the Holy Ghost loves others thorugh us. We see Jesus in them and they see Jesus in us. This is regular Christianity.

uh, i hate to be the one to break it to you, but one can not serve God in their heart without having Jesus as their saviour to begin with. your theology is really in need of serious repair. God is not the "love" in every person we meet. i guess though that you've finally, in a round-about way, answered the question you have been asked a hundred times... that yes, you believe that the love of a homosexual for their lover is "God", and that the "love" that told that woman to drown her five children was "God". Ladyi think your taking Seeker way out of context, he is only saying we who are true christians show our love to Jesus and leave sin by loving everyone we meet, and love is the fulfillment of the law. If we love everyone where is there room for sin? JC you are so right. I could not have said it better myself.

I dont think Seeker is saying all have Jesus, quite the opposite. He has only said God speaks to all but not all listen, and this imo is why the native in deepest isolation has no excuse. I think what Seeker is saying is that as Jesus said "whatever you do to the least of these you do it to me" So no matter who we love we are loving Jesus and no matter who we hate we are hating Jesus, and "whoever does not love his neighbour does not love God". Actually, I am responding to Seeker. I don't think you have an adequate grasp on what Seeker means.... at all. He has a full grasp. It is you that do not have an adequate grasp of what I say.

I dont think Seeker is saying all have Jesus, quite the opposite. He has only said God speaks to all but not all listen, and this imo is why the native in deepest isolation has no excuse. I think what Seeker is saying is that as Jesus said "whatever you do to the least of these you do it to me" So no matter who we love we are loving Jesus and no matter who we hate we are hating Jesus, and "whoever does not love his neighbour does not love God". YOu are so so right. This is exactly hwat I am saying!!! I am so impressed!! God certainly opens your eyes. God bless you.

uh, i hate to be the one to break it to you, but one can not serve God in their heart without having Jesus as their saviour to begin with. your theology is really in need of serious repair. God is not the "love" in every person we meet. i guess though that you've finally, in a round-about way, answered the question you have been asked a hundred times... that yes, you believe that the love of a homosexual for their lover is "God", and that the "love" that told that woman to drown her five children was "God". uuuhh I hate to be the one to break it to you but the bible in the old testimate is full of people who served God in their hearts and they did not have Jesus. God is love, the bible tells us so and so does His Spirit. Why are you putting words in my mouth about homosexuals? I am not even talking about homosexuals or people who kill children etc. Please keep focused.

Good Post Mike!!

I am not saying that everyone has the love of Jesus in them. I am saying you can meet Jesus in everyone even if they hate Jesus you can meet Jesus in them. This happens when we become born again. Becoming born again is mystical and is a gift from the Holy Ghost.

I am a sound reasoner, I just don't like to deviate from what I believe are solid biblical doctrines . The bible is full of examples of people following Him, and yet sinning. As for 1 Jn 1:18, you claim this is sinning "apart from Jesus", what do you mean by that? The passage doesn't say that. And yet, 1 Jn 2:1-2 is addressed to christians, and what happens WHEN we sin. Sorry bad sentence structure, i meant Jesus was the only one who has never sinned. The OT has some examples of this but Elijah, Elisha and Enoch have no record of sin, Elijahs fled from Jezzebel and became depressed but that is not sin as i understand it. There is no account of any Apostle sinning after they recieved poer from on high at Pentecost. Andy is your life like the book of acts and are you moving in power as Jesus promised? Im not but ive always believed it to be possible if not the norm? Have you read Fox`s journals ? 1 Jn 2:1 says "so we will not sin" and v2 is what we do if we sin. No one is saying that a Christian does not ever sin, but that does not mean the norm is sinning. I agree, v2 is what we do if we sin. We plead to our Advocate. Doesn't this render the notion of sinless perfection redundant? I am a bit confused now. Do you believe we must be sinless, in perfection, to be saved, or are you saying that a christian doesn't normally sin? I would disagree that there is no record of an apostle ever sinning, and even if that were true, it doesn't imply that we must be sinless for salvation. We cannot make an argument from silence. For this same reason, we can't conclude that Elijah et al are without sin either. Infact, Ro 3:23 states that they DID sin. My life doesn't resemble the book of acts, no. But I do love, serve and follow God, or attempt to, and yes I do sin and often. With our will we work for God. He will make us perfect in His good time. We must however serve Him as best we can. No man can have two masters. If we refuse to take up our cross and follow Jesus we reject His salvation for us. We must put God first and follow His voice and His voice is love. This is accepting His free gift of salvation. His salvation is leaving sin and becoming in union with Him. There are many degrees of this but as long as we are working with what we have we will grow. He who has will gain more. He who does not obey God where he can will lose what he has.

Was Elijah doing God's will when he fled and begged for death? We have no record of Enoch doing anything other than having offspring, living in close fellowship with God and being taken to heaven again, we have very litte accounts of them after that. And there are things one could debate if they were a sin or not. I have to ask, why not? This is the thing that I dont get the most about this view, you say that we can be sinless, but you are not. You say we can be "like the book of Acts" and yet you are not? What about this passage? Romans 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do

who is this "you" whom you refer to? anyone who disagrees with you and seeker? who is this life-giver you refer to? finney or fox? The giver of life is Jesus (God) i didn't ask you. i'm asking who it is JC thinks we are rejecting as the life-giver. because not ONE of us posting in this thread has rejected Jesus. we're rejecting the vain (and very flawed) teachings of man. LadyC, i have not named anyone i only quoted scripture and the Holy Spirit speaks through His word, but i dont know anyones heart and if it doesnt apply to you dont make me out to be saying such. Why would you think i was ascribing life to mortal men, Jesus Christ is the only God and life giver. Have you read of Fox`s preaching and life, its astounding. I dont mean for us to become quakers or that everything on that website is correct. I still hold Finney up as America`s greatest revivalist, but Fox moved in some astounding power. Both believed and claimed entire sanctification, so theres a clue about the crux of their influence and witness. The teachings and life of George Fox really moved me. That is why I became a Quaker. Jesus came to earth so that we could be vessels for Him. He can now work through us, His body. God living through us is real life and is God's gift. What a beautiful gift indeed. He who wants to drink, let him drink!!!

who is this "you" whom you refer to? anyone who disagrees with you and seeker? who is this life-giver you refer to? finney or fox? The giver of life is Jesus (God)

Good Post! It is true when one truly follows God one meets lots of opposition especially from people whom one would not normally expect. Jesus the mighty God met His strongest oppostition from the priests and religious leaders of the relgion at that time that worshiped God. How strange, but perhaps it is not so strange, it is the norm of this upside down world.

No He didn't, is there something that I should know?

We are not talking about listening to the human heart. We are talking about listening to God. Big difference. we've asked you a thousand times. how can one tell the difference. you don't know, do you? of course not. because you're following your deceptive heart instead of following God's word. I don't know what form of "Christianity" you guys are from but it sure seems scary pushing aside God's voice.

so, what happens when someone's inner voice tells them something different than what is in the written Word of God? you have been given many examples of this in this thread. what is one to do when the inner voice and the written Word are not saying the same thing? Oh my goodness I am losing patience here. The Inner Voice teaches the written Word. There is no conflict. So simple. I am getting very tired of repeating myself. you're not getting half as tired of it as we are of hearing you repeat yourself. your answers are NOT biblical. they are NOT of God. they conflict with the very WORD OF GOD. how do ya like them apples? Well considering you refuse to listen to God in your heart your understanding of the bible is thus very flawed.

We are not talking about listening to the human heart. We are talking about listening to God. Big difference.

Not everyone who says they follow God's voice does. Test the spirits. WHAT DO YOU TEST THEM AGAINST???????? See if it is of love. Simple ridiculous. how do we know it is of love? ANSWER THIS QUESTION. i'm dead serious. ANSWER IT. the homosexual says it is love. is it of God then? ANSWER THIS ONE TOO. the woman who drowned her five kids, said it was God, and did it out of love. was it of God, then? The Bible says NOT to listen to your own heart, because your heart will always deceive you. that's in the written word of God. is what is written in God's word a lie? Ask God yourself. He will direct you much better than I. Get the truth straight from the source. He is with you as much as He is with me.

so, what happens when someone's inner voice tells them something different than what is in the written Word of God? you have been given many examples of this in this thread. what is one to do when the inner voice and the written Word are not saying the same thing? Oh my goodness I am losing patience here. The Inner Voice teaches the written Word. There is no conflict. So simple. I am getting very tired of repeating myself.

The answer is that we try the spirit to see whether it is of God or not. However, I'm certain that this isn't going to be the answer you get. The Word of God is being moved aside in place of the spirit, which spirit we don't really know because were not allowed to try it against the Word to see whether or not it be of God. The thing that is clear from the Bible is that God does not oppose His own Word but that His Spirit works in conjunction with the revealed nature of God as contained in His Word. Peace, Dave i knew that LOL. i was wanting to see how seeker would answer! if i'm understanding seeker correctly, the voice in our heart is what he thinks is God's voice... but God says not to listen to the heart because it is deceptive! Yes, the heart of man is deceptive! I totally agree! That's why we need the word of God for guidance. This is for seeker: Like I said earlier there are more than one voice a christian can listen to: self (sin nature), satan and God's voice. To be sure it is God's voice, it must line up with the Word of God. God will not tell you to do something contrary to his own word. A sinner must hear the word of God in order to receive faith to be saved. Their conscience is not the same as the voice of God. God put a conscience in man so that he knows when he has done wrong - say stealing, murder, lying, etc. However, conscience alone cannot save him and listening to it cannot purchase his salvation. He must hear the word of God, repent and choose to live for Jesus. We grow by not listening to "voices" and "inner self" but by sincerely drinking and eating of the word of God. The spirit of God once a person is saved, will convict him of any sins he needs to ask forgiveness for in his walk with Jesus. There is no salvation without following God. Leaving sins is living in love.

Not everyone who says they follow God's voice does. Test the spirits. WHAT DO YOU TEST THEM AGAINST???????? See if it is of love. Simple

then, for the 5th time, what is one to do when their inner voice tells them to go against the teachings of the Bible. which one wins, the inner voice or the written Word of God? It doesn't conflict as the Inner Voice "God" wrote the bible. The Inner Voice teaches us the bible.

Not everyone who says they follow God's voice does. Test the spirits.

That is easy, God is love. The voice of love is God. We all know but some surpress it. so what makes us certain that the voice we're hearing is "love"? your "easy answer" is not definitive at all. it's very subjective. it sounds like "if it feels good it's of God". heck, pedophiles think their inappropriate feelings for a child feel good. homosexuals think their sinful lust for another member of the same sex is the voice of love. teenage girls who give into their boyfriends think that the voice they're hearing is love. teenage boys who are obsessed with the cute little cheerleader think the voice they're hearing is love. the mistress who is sneaking to a hotel room with her married lover thinks that she's hearing the voice of love. so i ask you again. how do we know the inner voice we are hearing is of GOD? Don't surpress God. God is true love and we all know what that is. That is what one should listen to. you're still not answering. still sounds like "if it feels good it must be God". I am answering but you are not receiving.

If your inner voice is your voice then you are not listening to God. Listen to God's voice and live. you're talking in circles and not answering the question. how do you distinguish between your OWN inner voice, the voice of satan, and the voice of God? Like I said before God is Love. Follow that voice. (If you can bear it)

this all sounds very nice, but you still have not said how you know which voice is your voice and which is God's. I would like an answer to this question as LadyC posted it. The voice of love is the voice of God.