Steve_S
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Posts posted by Steve_S
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Seasoned by Grace also removed from thread.
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DustyRoad and TamperedWith were both removed from the thread for debating the person and not the subject.
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I've banned choir loft and iamlamad from the thread. For the argument between them that is visible throughout the last few pages of the thread.
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4 hours ago, Bam2001 said:
Before reading, just know that is a long text, and may seem like something ridiculous and not needing to bother with to most of y'all, but this means a lot to me, and I keep hoping to find answers, but can't find any, so that's why I'm here...
Hey, Everyone! I am fairly new to this Forum and excited to be a part of it! I was born into the faith, and have been a Christian my entire life (I'm 17 years old, lol). It wasn't until around I was about 12 or 13, though, that I began to become more interested in Christianity and the Bible, and at the age of 15, I discovered Apologetics, which helped me retain my faith that I was struggling with at the time. Thanks to that, I now have learned much more about Christianity than I ever thought I would, and I am so happy to know that Christ is Lord and that I am a Follower of Him!
So y'all are probably wondering "what does any of this have to do with Tupac Shakur, as named in the title?" Well, that's where the questions come in.
For any who don't know, Tupac Amaru Shakur (1971-1996) was a rapper who went by the stage names MC New York, 2Pac, and Makaveli. He was born in New York, and then moved to Maryland where he attended the Baltimore Academy of Arts (I believe that's what it is called), but then moved to California at the age of 17, where he was introduced to the drug and ghetto culture, where dealing, gang violence, sex, and robberies were frequent and even promoted. He was brought up as a thug, due to this, and incorporated this message in many of his songs.
Unlike many rappers today though, when Tupac rapped about drugs and crime, he didn't do it in an attempt to glorify them, he did it to show the consequences of dabbling with them and tried to show those that didn't live that lifestyle, what it's like to live it. Tupac even made songs that, to me, were very powerful. His songs such as: Changes, Dear Mama, Brenda's Got A Baby, Until the End of Time, etc. are enough to make one tear up (I did with Brenda's Got A Baby). Me, being born into the ghetto and being raised in a household of domestic violence, I began to feel extremely attached to his music and his message. I began to binge several of his interviews, videos, albums, films, etc. It got to the point to where he felt like a friend of mine, or even, family.
Then, I saw an interview where he was asked his religious views, and this is where it gets downhill. His songs and poems show that he was an extremely strong believer in God, but when he is asked about what he follows, he responds, stating that he believes that if you are good in your heart and do good things, then you are closer to God. But if you're evil in your heart and do bad things, then you're closer to the Devil. But he then went on to say that the Bible, he believes, was made by a person who wanted to find a way to control people. He says that the Bible says that certain people (prophets, patriarchs, etc) are good because they suffered a lot. He then went on to say that he got shot 5 times, and that he was 'crucified' by the media, and he 'walked through with the thorns on', and he told the thief (probably someone in the jail he was in) that 'this ain't supposed to happen, I'll come back for you.' Then he clarified by saying that he ain't saying he's Jesus, but that people go through that type of 'stuff' everyday. He then went on to attack a lot of what he sees as selfishness by megachurches and gigantic cathedrals who won't help homeless people who need God (although I don't have an issue with that point). During this interview, he was quick to make sure that he wasn't trying to disrespect anyone's beliefs, and that these things he's saying are simply his opinions only.
This broke my heart. I thought Tupac, someone who I see as an inspiration, was a full on believer! I began to overspeculate, and came to several conclusions, one of which was that Tupac wasn't being entirely truthful in the interview, as he does have different tones with different interviewers, and that he truly did believe in the Bible, but then I felt like I was lying to myself. There several factors that contribute to my continued belief that Tupac was a Christian. Such as:
- He had a giant tattoo of a cross on his back
- He had a tattoo of a cross, along with Jesus' face, with the words "Only God Can Judge Me" on his arm
- His most frequently worn necklace was a necklace of a cross
- He was extremely close to his mother, who was a very devout Christian, who even claimed that the group she was in (Black Panther Party) failed because they didn't involve God
- In many of his songs, he implements Christian tones: "Hail Mary", "Only God Can Judge Me", "Black Jesuz", "Ghetto Gospel", "I Wonder If Heaven Got A Ghetto"
- Many of his lyrics point to a Christian belief:
"Father please forgive me for my life of sin, my hard stare seems to scare my sister's kids.." (Until the End of Time)
"Get on yo knees to pray, Oh Lord, Help me change my ways, and show a lil mercy on judgment day, it ain't me I was raised this way.." (Hell 4 a Hustla)
"Is there a ghetto in heaven or do I go to hell?" (Gotta Survive)
"Picture a world where black babies can survive past five, but we must keep hope, quotin the reverend from the pulpit.." (Everything You Own)
"Question for the Lord, why don't He like me, please guard my soul" (High Speed)
"Just another lost soul stuck callin Jehovah.. Father how the hell did I survive these five shots?" (All Out)
"and I wonder if the Lord ever heard of me.." (Po N*gga Blues)
"and I pray to black Jesus to please take the rest of me.." (As The World Turns)
"Before I go to sleep I pray and thank the Lord for another fruitful day.." (F*ckin with the Wrong N*gga)
"Dear God I been feeling like I'm close to Jesus.." (Catchin Feelings)
"And God said He should send His one begotten son
to lead the wild into the ways of the man
Follow me; eat my flesh, flesh and my flesh" & "Catch me father please, cause I'm fallin," (Hail Mary)"Cry later but for now let's enjoy the laughter
God bless the dead" (God Bless the Dead)"Dear Lord..How can I survive? Got me askin white Jesus
will a brotha live or die, cause the Lord can't see us
in the deep dark clouds of the projects, ain't no sunshine
No sunny days and we only play sometimes" (Still I Rise)"Keep yo' head up and try to keep the faith
And pray for better days" (Better Dayz)"Searchin for Black Jesus
It's hard, it's hard
We need help out here
So we searchins for Black Jesus
It's like a Saint, that we pray to in the ghetto, to get us through" (Black Jesuz)"Who do you believe in?
I put my faith in God
Blessed and still breathing
And even though it's hard
That's who I believe in
Before I'm leaving
I'm asking the grieving
Who do you believe in?" (Who Do You Believe In)These things often comfort me. In regards to Christianity, the closest he ever came to "insulting" it, is saying that the Bible wasn't "written by God". He harshly criticized pastors, priests, and especially televangelists, but he never once, not once, ever spoke bad about Jesus Christ. And even though he didn't hold the Bible in the same regard as we do here, he never insulted any prophet or person in the Bible that is shown as good.
What's strange though, is that, in an interview after this, Tupac, while acting in a movie called "Gang Related", states that his faith is in "Black Jesus" and that he has "been gifted by God, by Black Jesus". Here, Tupac refers to Jesus as God, (the reason he uses the term "Black Jesus", is because he wants to make it clear that he doesn't have the same thought pattern as WASP Christians) (also, note that this interview isn't part of the movie, lol).
In an interview with MTV (I believe this was his last interview before he was eventually shot and killed), he compares Judas' Betrayal to his competition in the music industry. I don't remember what he said exactly, but it's easy to find online, and it's very short.
After he was shot, he didn't die on the spot, but instead, fell into a coma and was rushed to the hospital, where he was alive for about 3-6 days until he eventually died from his wounds. During this time, he was visited by his mother, Afeni Shakur, and his aunt, Gloria Cox, both of whom were devout Christians, and they had with them, in Tupac's hospital room, an Evangelist, who was Tupac's aunt Gloria's cousin, who visited Tupac all the time and prayed over him, and also put oil over him and put a healing cloth on him, while he was still shot up and unconscious, but still alive. He eventually passed away, with the last ones seeing him pass on, being his mother and aunt.
Now some of y'all may have a question of your own when reading this: "Why do you care so much?". Well, because I feel extremely close to Tupac, and he touched on so many things that meant a lot to me, and what he said are things that I very much relate to. He feels kind of like a best friend, or even a brother sometimes. I don't let this cloud my judgement, though, as there are aspects of him that I don't agree with. I don't want to follow the life he lived, and I believe that Biggie handled their feud in a much more mature manner and tried to calm people on both sides down, whereas Tupac, due to growing up in the ghetto and already being shot 5 times, became extremely paranoid and reacted somewhat militantly (though, only verbally, not physically). But as Tupac said, he didn't want to be seen as a role model, but instead, show the world what he alone was like.
With all this being said, there are some questions I have regarding this.
1) Tupac promoted songs and messages of righteousness, with some gangsta-type themes, only so he could connect and reach out to the people who lived in ghetto hood areas. First and foremost, 2Pac believed in helping the poor, and fought for those who couldn't, but often times his anger did get the best of him, and he would act out on it, but then regret it later on. ~ Does this make him more of a no good thug rather than someone who can be seen as good?
2) Despite him not believing the divine context of the Bible (at least not at the time of the interview), do you think he could still be considered a Christian? He held a very strong and firm belief in God, and believed in the teachings of Christ as well. His Gang Related interview shows him calling Black Jesus, God. Maybe he could've been what is called an "Agnostic Christian"? What is the minimum requirement to being called a "Christian"?
3) Would you say that Tupac made it into Heaven? Or that it seems like He could've? He did exactly what Jesus taught people to do in His Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, but he didn't seem to believe in Biblical authority, but he did refer to Jesus as God. This means he took Him as his "Lord", but I'm not sure if he then also took him as his "Savior". His body art and songs seem to show a promotion of Christian belief, though. I remember reading about King Solomon who was once righteous in the Eyes of God, but then turned to idolatry and had several women as his wives and concubines. I don't think Solomon would've landed in Hell though, so I don't think that what Tupac did, would've landed him in Hell (but I'm not the one to make that judgement).
Sorry for seeming somewhat dramatic, and over thinking the faith and actions of one man, but the reason I do this, is because I love Tupac and I genuinely care about his condition and his faith. If there's anyone here, especially a fan of 2Pac who may also know about his life, who can give an answer, then as Tupac said in Dear Mama, "you are appreciated". I kindly ask for as many answers that can be received as possible. Thank you, and God Bless!
Could you please edit this to remove any references to profanity before it is approved? If you need to copy/paste it into a new thread and repost it to do so, that's okay.
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Please pray for my uncle. He had a couple of small strokes earlier this week.
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1 hour ago, Gentle-Warrior said:
Nothing to do with Replacement Theology. You just don't get it because you have made modern Israel your idol and would not allow anyone to touch it.
I have locked this thread because the OP made the above personal attack. It's always unfortunate when threads get closed, so please try to not get personal. Accusing someone of idolatry is far over the line in personal action, even heated interaction.
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There are some things said in the prayers to Mary in the rosary that are found nowhere in scripture. That is certainly worth pointing out.
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This thread seems to have already ran its course. Locked.
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I believe this thread has ran it's course, locked.
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1 hour ago, Isaiah90 said:
Obeying Jesus commands to love one another, make disciples, preach the Gospel, pray, fast, list goes on.
What is the Gospel?
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16 minutes ago, Isaiah90 said:
Just thought i'd give reasons why i left church even though i’m still a practicing Christian. Here’s tons of reasons why i left.
What do you mean by being a "practicing Christian?"
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3 hours ago, DanielConway said:
You know, I don't know if non scribd members can see that paper. I might have egg on my face. No apologies for the length of the paper, however. The concepts are subtle and involved and deeply embedded in the history of the early church, a history that not every Christian is familiar with and requires some description to carry the arguement.
I removed the link to the external site. It may be best to present the ideas here or in other threads in a fashion more appropriate for a forum format.
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Locked at OP request.
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You should be able to respond in most forums now :).
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Praying!
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3 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:
The voices in your head must be bewitching you.
You say the peace treaty, AoD, and stopping of sacrifices are in Revelation? Where? Oh, that's right the voices in your head told you so. Okay.
The two witnesses show up at the same time as the great multitude in heaven (Ch. 7 -right between the 6th and 7th seal). Now you are contradicting your own teaching. The 2 witnesses are given 3.5 years and very quickly (that same hour) when they are resurrected - Jesus returns.
Back to Daniel 12...
After the rapture event in 12:1 we are told there will only be 3.5 years (time,times, and half a time). Later it says After the AoD (after the end of verse 9:26), there will be 3.5 years (1290 days + another 45 days). The time frame context for the AoD was first century (that's why there is NO mention of it or a peace treaty in Revelation)- the end of verse 26 which occurs after the cross. The thought process involved there is focused on the end of the OLD covenant and the start of the NEW one. The NEW covenant overlapped with the OLD and there is a dual fulfillment going on in verse 9:26 and 9:27.
Poster removed from thread.
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7 hours ago, choir loft said:
Fools demand evidence, but it is not evidence they seek.
What they want is to be justified in their foolishness.(*) That cannot happen because it is their own conscience and their own mind that irritates their awareness unto hatred of all that is light and truth.
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. - Jesus as quoted by John 3:19
Evidence is not the issue. Suppression of evidence is what is at hand.
"What a fool believes he sees,
no wise man can reason away."
- WHAT A FOOL BELIEVES Doobie Brothers 1980
The cure for ignorance is knowledge.
There is no cure for stupid.
- John Wayne
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
(*) Secular definition of a fool is stupidity. It's all that to be sure, but the Biblical definition, Solomon's definition, of a fool can be gleaned from the pages of Proverbs. A fool is a clever intelligent person who has a complete and total disregard for the consequences of his actions. A fool cannot be persuaded to abandon his foolishness and will likely die from them - all the while blaming everyone else for his behavior - including God.
Poster removed from thread.
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23 minutes ago, HAZARD said:
Who would trust someone who breaks into their home? I would not trust them to just steal.
Jesus said;
John 10:10, The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: …..
I agree, which was basically my point. Assigning intentions to other based on what you hope is the best outcome (in this case that being that they are simply there to steal things and leave) is a pretty dangerous game to play.
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4 hours ago, Last Daze said:
If you're serious about understanding the intent of the above passage, do a word study on those two verbs.
An excellent idea :).
This underlying Greek word here for "worships" or "worship" (προσκυνέω - probably best transliterated proskyneo or something along those lines) is actually used in multiple tenses throughout the scriptures.
4 hours ago, Last Daze said:The tense of those verbs indicates an activity that is taking place in the present.
What tense specifically? There is no specific tense attached to proskyneo to my knowledge. As noted above, it is used, unmodified, in more than once tense and for the purposes of this short word study...
Past - Matthew 2:11, 8:2, 9:18, 14:33, 18:26, etc...
In fact, it is used in the past tense as often or more often than it is used in the present tense.
The problem really isn't with the word or the translation of it. The texts says what it says. I'm a firm believer that one can get a general understanding of the the message a passage is trying to get across by simply reading the passage. This passage says folks that worship the beast and receive his mark will not be going to heaven. This is not a theological statement, it is a prophetic statement. There is no theological argument here, only a one of prophecy. As far as I'm concerned, whether or not one can be saved after taking the mark is a meaningless hypothetical, because we know for an absolute fact that none will. Here's another prophecy:
2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
2Th 2:12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.These two things are quite clearly connected.
What's the lie? The claim of the man of sin to be God (2:4).
Who gets sent strong delusion? Those who did not receive the love of the truth.
What happens to them? They are condemned for it.
So here's the real question. Will those who have been sent a "strong delusion" directly from God Himself (as a result of their rejection of His truth) repent and turn towards Him? That would be quite a strong willed person!
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28 minutes ago, metalharpey said:
Thats why i came here. I want to see if i can restore my relationship with god, if he will have me. I hope my life will turn better as well. The only thing i ever wanted was to become a mother. Now i need to learn how to be a child, a child of god. I hope you guys can help me on my way.
The good news is that we have a means by which to be reconciled to God and it doesn't matter who you are, where you come from, what you've done, or what you've been through. The very reason Jesus died and was resurrected is so that we would have an avenue of reconciliation to God. God is all about restoration and the offer from Him is there.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. -
On 1/5/2019 at 7:38 AM, Diaste said:
I'm sorry but this seems quite harsh. I wonder if there is precedent in scripture for repentance when one worships images or idols to false gods. Nothing comes to mind but I bet there is an example.
I find the whole idea of 'never able to repent of an action or behavior' distasteful and not in keeping with scriptural truths of love, grace and mercy, nor the many examples of repentance of sin. As far as I know only one sin is unforgivable and that's blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, not taking the mark and worshiping an image.
Rev 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, ", If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand
Rev 14:10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."This seems to be a fairly straightforward scripture. If one receives the mark of beast, they go to eternal torment. There seems to be absolutely no way around that. We are told explicitly that anyone who worships the beast will end up in this situation. It is prudent to heed such warnings in my view.
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Just now, leah777 said:
Didnt say they were. BUT if I carried a lethal weapon, knowing that in an emergency i would probably kill someone cos i dont have the training to respond defensively any other way, I would not carry one. The odds on me killing someone maybe by mistake are too high for my comfort zone.
Just like I would not drive a car if i wasnt a trained driver, apart from it being illegal I mean, but you get my drift.
Killing in and of itself is not a sin. Murder is definitively a sin. There is a biblical distinction between the two going back to the torah. Even in the instance of centurions. They were never told to leave the military or not participate in battle, just not to mistreat others or misuse their authority.
Sins We Are Born Into, and Must Overcome
in Have a problem? Looking for advice?
Posted
Please refrain from debating the person and simply the subject going forward. Comments like this are why we have to close threads and/or remove people from them.