Jon The Jew

Well, I believe it was C.S. Lewis who said "Hell is locked from the inside". I'm terrible with references, but the Bible says "no one is without excuse". I would also argue that God is not the one who sends us to Hell, but sentences us there. When Scott Peterson was convicted, no one blamed the judge for it. Man's own sin is what sends him to Hell.

Because...there is none. If the Bible flat said "ROCK MUSIC IS WRONG!" then maybe we'd have something. Well...let's check and see where the ad hominems are coming from. Great advice from someone who is spewing vile ad hominems. So...we can conclude that Joel or I have said you guys are sinning, rebellious, avoiding God's Word (or adding to it, rather). We have called you legalistic, I'll give that to you. We are being knocked down for age, speculations are arising, we're being called liars, people are getting hurt....and for what? So you can prove to us how rebellious we are? While I'm on this post from Sola; if you have studied so much and you're just so much smarter than us...why don't you just shut us up with your superior opinion on the issue? All I'm getting from you is "I'm right because I've studied more". Why? Is it not possible God still uses young people? People did feel the same about Timothy, hence Paul encouraging Timothy in 1 Timothy 4:12. The concept is wrong. All except porno are covered by treating your body as a Holy Temple. But this also includes being a glutton. Porno is wrong when lustful thoughts acompany it, which is near impossible. Jesus says if you lust in your heart after someone, then you've committed adultery. Now, that wasn't hard. However, the text everyone keeps bringing up quanifies that the heart must be right. Spiritual song cannot imply a physical style of music. In John chapter 3, Jesus made the distinction between flesh and Spiritual. He seperated them as two different things. Spiritual was not meant is a genre, but as an inclination of what they should be. He didn't say "You must use the name 'Jesus' 4 times for it to be considered Christian". He said it has to be Spiritual, that is, Spiritual in meaning and in heart. "We Were Meant to Live" is a good example of this. It does not mention God, but it is implying that the things of this earth are not what we are here for. Which is completely Biblical. Now, if it is good in morals, with Spiritual undertones (at least), why is it wrong for me to listen to it? If you say "because the Bible says so" don't post a Scripture or an article until you challenge what I said above.

On age: How old was Jesus when He was teaching? 12. How old was Timothy? How old was David when He defeated Goliath? Obviously age means nothing to God. People don't have time to sit and read a plethora of articles. Prejudiced of what? Have I said its wrong if you don't listen to rock music? I've simply defended my view. They're also called hypocrites, fools, brood of vipers...etc.

I don't normally take a Bible when I witness. I have it there in case they make a decision, but not when I'm witnessing. Most people are intimidated and not open to listen to someone who will rip through their Bible when witnessing. But to answer your question, Wednesday night. I'm friends with a lot of lost people. But, I'm doing what Jesus said, being light to the darkness. I go into the darkness, because that is the only way for darkness to recieve light.

Soulwinner, no one is paying attention to you. There is a reason for that; people avoid legalists, which is why many of the non-Christians I know would ignore you, and have a plethora of reasons not to become a Christian.

We're not claiming God says it is ok, though. We're saying God does not say it is wrong, therefore it is up to the Holy Spirit. Notice "making melody in your heart". It is talking about the heart of the person, not the style they sing.

Obviously God cared enough about them to die for them. Also, where does it say Mary Magdalene was a prositute? In fact, the Bible also does not say who the Pharisee is in Luke 11:37. Another fact is that Pharisees ate together, they ate with the "elite" of their time, who were also corrupt. Tax collectors and lawyers are a few. However, Jesus always brought a message with Him, which is what we as Christians should do. Another interesting story is the woman who was going to be stoned. She never said a word, but Jesus stepped in and made sure she was not stoned. He had compassion on her, even as an adultress. How many people we deem as "people are perverted and hate God" do we have any compassion on? Let me tell you this, everytime we sin, as Christians, we pervert the Holy House of God. We grieve the Holy Spirit, and we tell God we are better off doing things our own way. The same grace I am under is the same grace available to Marilyn Manson. Unfortunately we'd rather bicker about how evil he is than actually bring this message of salvation to him. Now let me ask you, since you pointed those OT verses out. When you imagine Christ hanging on the cross, taking the pain and sin for our sake...do you picture an angry, vengeful God? Or do you picture a God who loves us, and wants us all to accept Him? By shunning and avoiding the "sinful" people of this world, we are being as un-Christlike as possible. Jesus came into the world, full of sinners without any hope, and went to the hurting, the worst of sinners, the liars, the cheaters. He stood up for the adultress, He took our place on the cross. So if Christ had enough compassion and love for all of us, that He would come down and spend time with sinners and eventually die for them....how can we talk about being godly and Christlike, yet avoid the very same thing Jesus did by coming to earth?

Then what was he doing in the house of a tax collector? What was he doing in a house full of Pharisees when the prostitute fell at His feet? Jesus went to the people who needed Him the most. So if I bought him lunch in order to sit down and talk to him about Jesus...I would be sinning? How does that line up with the Great Commission? Fred Phelps is a pastor who preaches "God hates fags". He preaches absolute hatred for everyone but God's elect. He shows no mercy or grace on homosexuals, and even pickets at funerals of homosexuals. He is a bad pastor, an evil man....does this mean all pastors are bad?

Show me in the Scriptures where Christian rock, that is, the style of music, is condemned in the Bible. No "avoid sinners" crap or whatever you try to apply to your twisted ways of thinking. I want something that mentions rock music. Where? I see all this talk of "scripture CAN prove Christian rock is evil!" then you throw a a link longer than Moby Dick at us and expect us to read it. What kind of ministry do you think you run that considers anything a waste of time? I don't know everything nor does Joel. In fact, I don't know where in Scripture that rock music, the style, is specifically condemned by God. And I'm willing to believe that you don't know either. Show me at least ONE Scripture which condemns Christian rock, the style...and I will quit listening to it.

I didn't say Presidential election. The entire House and 1/3rd of the Senate is elected every 2 years. With that settled, I'd like to hear what you have to say. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How can someone reply to unsubstantiated claims? I can say Hillary is going to rise to power, bring back the glory of the Democratic party, and turn the nation against conservatives...but all you can reply with is "That's absurd" because it's all speculation.

Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors, lepers and sinners, demon possesed and pharisees. Of course, no one has explained scripturally that secular music is wrong. If it is secular influence we avoid, I stand by the point we must also avoid any sort of relationship with non-believers.

I would reply, but it's impossible to reply to unsubstantiated claims.

If we are to avoid the secular world and be completely absent from, and refusing to understand its culture and day-to-day life...then we have completely disobeyed and ignored the Great Commission. How many of you would eat lunch with a bar owner? How many would by a prostitute a bite to eat? How many would spend time talking to the drug addict on the streets?

Yes, a new world order where the rest of the world disapproves of him and the war in Iraq. Where he declines to be in the International court. Where he goes to war without the approval of France and Germany, the other 2 "superpowers". If anything, he is the one man keeping us from a world government. As for power, what power is there in attacking Muslim garbage (terrorists)? What power has Bush gained, in the rest of the world, by invading Afghanistan and Iraq? By not declaring a war on terrorism, all we do is hold a Clinton policy to terrorism. Send a cruise missile over to a camp and say "take that you sons of b*****s!". It's like trying to put a fire out by spraying the smoke with water.

No, context is not one or two verses before the verse. Context includes the verses before AND after. So, let's get some meaning from these verses. 1 Cor. 11:4 is the verse in question. However, verse 5 says "But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved". Ok, so far, a woman without a covering is the same as a woman with a shaved head. But let's move on. 6"For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her head shaved, let her cover her head.". But, let's skip ahead to the verse which ties it all together, and it makes sense completely. Verse 13 "Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering. So in verse 13, the woman's long hair is her covering. So if hair is given as a covering, then the covering of a woman's head in verse 5 is her hair! Not a hat. In verse 14 it mentions a man having long hair, so if a covering is a hat, why even bring up hair at all? It doesn't make sense unless you put them together, and a covering is hair, not a hat.

Look in the context and you'll see it's talking about hair. Read the verses after it. Also, it says you dishonor your head, not God.

You have failed to show how it is disrespectful to God. Well, then what's the big deal about someone wearing their hat in church? What if I was lost and a friend brought me? My first impression of Christians is hats are bad, and in order to be a Christian, I have to follow strict and pointless rules. Again, I'm not interested in tradition, I'm interested in the Bible. "It's disrespectful to God" is putting words in God's mouth. Did God, or the Bible, ever say anything about our clothing being disrespectful to God (if it is not causing others to sin)?

When I meet someone new, or someone older comes up to shake my hand, I take my hat off. Well if we're going by what Jesus says, then the women should remove their hats as well. If we go scripturally, then men take their hats off (which "uncovered" to the best of my understanding is not concerning hats), and women leave their hats on. The Church is me. God's House is me. It's not an empty, souless building. The Church is the body of believers, thus God's House is in my soul, not a certain place I happen to be standing. If I were you, I'd ask God to straigten your priorities. I am not convicted about wearing a hat in church whatsoever. And I'm hardly a newborn Christian. I recognize more important things, my eyes are not "on things on the world" as the Bible says. When I see a student wearing a hat, should I approach them and tell them to take it off, then walk away? Or should I get to know them, try a better approach to asking them if "ordered" to? All I'm seeing here is a lot of pick and choose scripture application, which is typical to proof-text tradition.

If Heaven isn't eternal....then what is it? Where exactly do we go after Heaven? Heaven and Hell have to be eternal, because if not, you run into these problems. 1. The Bible only mentions 2 places we can be after we die; Heaven or Hell. 2. The Bible does not mention any other place after Heaven or Hell, so we are forced to believe they are the end. 3. The Bible does not teach reincarnation, thus once we are dead, we stay that way. 4. I don't have the time to go looking up specific verses, but I'm pretty sure the Bible makes numerous references to God being eternal, first and last, Alpha and Omega. Think about that.

I had an usher approach me and a friend the other day for wearing hats in the sanctuary. He asked us to remove them, and I looked at him and asked "why?". He sat there for a moment, just looking with a shocked look on his face. Until finally one of the students said "It's God's house!" and he nodded, pointed to the student, and said "yeah!". As he turned to walk away I said "hang on a minute...where is that in the Bible?". Another shocked look came on his face. Then I said "Biblically, this building is just that, a building. God's house is found in the Body of Christ, which is believers. We are the Church". I proceeded to ask him again "So is it Biblical or traditional?". He said "whatever" and walked away. So, where exactly do we get this from? How exactly am I showing disrespect to God by wearing a hat? How can I disrespect God with clothing at all?

Has anyone ever read the PLO charter? In many sections it talks about completely getting rid of of "Zionist oppressors". For you people who actually believe the PLO and other terrorist groups are peaceful victims; "getting rid of" means killing all the Jews. Obviously the Arab world cares about the Palestinians. They banded together to fight the Jews and push them out of the land to give it to the Palestinians. They gave up the lives of their young men for these people. But they don't care enough to give up a few km's of their country and give it to the Palestinians? No. The Arabs care nothing of the Palestinians, all they want is to get rid of a Jewish presence in a Muslim controlled territory. And if Israel is a terrorist state that oppresses people, go visit Iraqi's who suffered under Saddam. Go to Iran and see all the freedoms they have (which is none). Go to Taliban controlled Afghanistan and see the persecution of their own people. The most harmful and evil governments alive today are controlled by Muslims.

The fear of the government is the only thing that makes people think this way.

I've got it boiled down to the only thing 3rd party candidates seem to care about. 1) Themselves, screw all the other countries, we're going back to isolationist. 2) Their guns. I like my guns, I like shooting my guns, but if the government makes it harder to obtain them, but I still can...that's fine. I do not advocate gun control, but I don't advocate freely carrying a gun around either. 3) They want a small government. The first one alone tells me they have no compassion. They can put quotations around Bush being a Christian as if he's not, but isn't helping a country in need setting a good example?

On a side note, I checked that website out. He seems to think we're becoming another Nazi Germany. With a police state and everything. I'm just curious..if we're already heading that direction and we have "concentration camps" (which are empty and completely unguarded)...why hasn't he been arrested yet? Just remember boys and girls, they ARE out to get you.

Someone can be Christian and deserve to be arrested. I don't see how it's scary. But signs that say "God is angry with homosexuals" isn't going to strike up a nice E.E. oppurtunity. I know a guy who went to a gay day parade and handed out water bottles to the ones marching. When they asked why he was doing that, he simply said "Because God loves you, and I follow God's commands". I heard another story, a Marilyn Manson concert was coming into a small town that was conservative. Many of the churches banded together to protest and jeer at everyone who went. One church said "let's hand out pizza and soda". So they did. There was something wrong with the sound that night, and Marilyn sang half a song and went off stage and never returned. The fans were obviously angry. When they got to the parking garage, they dreaded paying a fee they didn't have to pay. The church that handed out pizza and soda knew this, so they paid for everyone parking ticket. Now, out of those two instances, what do you think the most memorable moment was for the ones who experienced grace? There are better ways to deal with things than calling people sinners.