SlipperyPete

ah, but you will sit here and explain how others should be condemned? you come on here with guns blazing and expect.... what? methinks you expected what you got. so now you can judge and condemn christians for not being understanding. and now you have an excuse for not following Christ... or at least not following Christ the Biblical way. so you have your answer. for what it's worth, though, your anger is doing you no good. neither is your theology of who Christ is. anger, for the most part, comes from hurt. i hope you find the cause of that hurt and deal with it. in the mean time, please don't throw away the Christian life because of your anger. First of all, what makes you think you are qualified to make these statements? So you know, I actually find this whole think quite comical. I am actually sharing all of this with my girlfriend who thinks Christians are the most understanding people, but she is quite set back by the comments here. She can see how quick everyone is jumping to these conclusions because they simply don't agree with how I see things. I have been a pastor, vice president of the full-gospel buisness men local chapter and taught a year long bible study.... She is quite shocked because all she sees is judgemental people and a mean spirit. I for one have delt with this at other sites, but she didn't think people would be like it. Unfourtunaltey, everyone played it right out. I was hoping it wouldn't, but it did. I am looking for people to have intellectual conversations and what I get is attacked simply because people don't agree.

Well Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Acts 1:11 There You Go Again Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. John 14:1-3 Subtracting From The Clear And Holy Words Of God And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:1-2 Whatever Reason Would One Give To Clive Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:15 To This Condemned Cosmos Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2 Peter 3:3-7 >>>>>()<<<<< Believe Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26 And Be Blessed Beloved But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Love, Joe Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes. Psalms 119:155 How am I taking away from the scripture, Cosmo?

Now it's going to be shut down and the conversation that was interesting is over. I'm just sick of people being so judgemental and overbearing. It's just not safe to discuss anything with anybody because someone simply looses it. It's enough to push people away. excuse me? who do you work for, anyway? why would you say it's going to be shut down? is that your hope? who has been judgemental, and what is your definition of that word? what do you want out of life and out of God?? I work for the CIA, what's that supposed to mean? I really don't follow where you are coming from? Shutdown, because typically when someone attacks someone like that it typically gets shut down to prevent shouting matches. I am saying that FresnoJoe was being judgemental. By saying "And Forgive The Poor Man Who Slips Vain Thoughts Over Holy Words" Define judgemental, it means to assign value and right standing to a person place or thing. What do I want out of life and God? jellybeans...I'm not going to sit here and explain who I am to you.

Now it's going to be shut down and the conversation that was interesting is over. I'm just sick of people being so judgemental and overbearing. It's just not safe to discuss anything with anybody because someone simply looses it. It's enough to push people away.

I find it sickening that people like FresnoJoe dirty up site after site. I just left a different site where people act like brats, and since I have been here I have recieved the same if not, worse behavior because they do it right in your face, and it's called supporting someone. I'm just disguisted, Christian sites, the safe places? There is a difference between opinions differing and people just being jerks, you would't think it's from those whom met with God.

Pardon me?!?! Who do you think you are coming in and acting in such a way? Saying I slip vain thoughts over holy words?!?! You highly need to rethink youself, you believe that God is going to judge you, understand this then, you will be judge harshly for that.

Glorify [ 1,,G1392, doxazo ] primarily denotes to suppose" (from doxa, "an opinion"); in the NT (a) "to magnify The reason why there is no vines old testament is because it's an expository of new testament words, Greek interlinear. Now as to why you don't see the definition, because you decided not to cut and paste it, here's the link, http://www.antioch.com.sg/cgi-bin/bible/vi...efn.pl?num=1201 and what is first written; Glory, Glorious A. Nouns doxa kleos B. Adjective endoxos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A1. Glory, Glorious [Noun] doxa "glory" (from dokeo, "to seem"), primarily signifies an opinion, estimate, and hence, the honor resulting from a good opinion. It is used (I) (a) of the nature and acts of God in self-manifestation, Like I said, Through God's acts, our opinion of Him is raised therfore we regard Him in a higher way. I don't mind you having your own opinion Nebula, but don't try to discredit what others say with a 2 second study on google. I think you did a good job, let me expand on that.... The average person who doesn't have any leaning towards or away from God really has no value of Him, thus their regard for God isn't very high. Now a person who goes through an encounter with God and lets say recieves a healing. Now that person tells someone about what God did for them, that person because they care about thier friend says God did this for you, WOW that's amazing maybe He is real. Because of what God did for that person they went out glorifying (telling of the goodness) God did and because of that their friend was effected by the Glory (the testimony of God's good works) of God and thus had their opinion raised. So now lets apply that to what Nebula said, Declare the goodness of God among the nations, His wonderful deeds among all peoples.....yup sounds right. Give thanks to the Lord for He is good....this is what I have just said. Make a joyful noise unto the Lord all you lands...this is praise, not glorifying. Praising someone of something is simply giving value to the person or item. Everytime you say, "Man this band is awsome" you are praising that band, and the praising may actually cause someones opinion of the band to increase, thus it becomes praising and glorifying.

Ministers, have you ever noticed there are alot of scriptures that say, "and they ministered to God." If you haven't look it up. Does God need ministry, is he feeling depressed and neeeds some inspirational words too? Does God need to be saved? Of cousre not, and just as you are inserting about ministers, not all ministers are preachers for the gospel. 1 Samuel 2:11 "Then Elkanah went to his home at Ramah. But the boy ministered to the LORD before Eli the priest." What are the things of preists, now you are asking a real question. Go read Leviticus and Dueteronomy and Numbers and Exodus, then you will know because that's where the promise was made and outlined. Exodus 19. Glorify, All of Creation praises and sings His name. It's a Psalm, not our duty. Glorify, do you even know what that word means? I assume you think it means to have a big shinny light or worship and such....however that's not what the word means, it means to have ones opinion raised. For instance, if I swore at you your opinion of me would lessen however if I said you were a great person your opinion of me would raise, the riasing is the glorifying. God is glorified by what Jesus did, because of what Jesus did I think of God in a much "higher" regard. Wow - I don't even know where to begin with this. I feel like David just coming home from worshiping the Lord in the streets and then being rebuked by Michal. I guess there's a lot of stones crying out around your home, huh? So this is where I guess you explain why Vines Expository Dictionary is an unreliable source? Considering that's one source, and is highly regarded. Strongs is a highly unreliable source also? I guess you aren't really interested in discussion but only in arguing. I made some points, with reliable sources and presented them and all you do is insult. At least now I know your spirit. Thanks anyway, had enough of that already, don't need anymore.

What I said, I stand by. Matthitjah, do you believe that Satan was present in your room or your body or somehow sent you some evil thoughts?

The passage you call the great commission was never meant to enlist the enitire believeing body. I find it interesting that I compiled a list of scriptures and you list one. That's because you entire argument is based on one scripture and presented how you want, as opposed to a number of scriptures that draw a whole picture. Ministers, have you ever noticed there are alot of scriptures that say, "and they ministered to God." If you haven't look it up. Does God need ministry, is he feeling depressed and neeeds some inspirational words too? Does God need to be saved? Of cousre not, and just as you are inserting about ministers, not all ministers are preachers for the gospel. 1 Samuel 2:11 "Then Elkanah went to his home at Ramah. But the boy ministered to the LORD before Eli the priest." What are the things of preists, now you are asking a real question. Go read Leviticus and Dueteronomy and Numbers and Exodus, then you will know because that's where the promise was made and outlined. Exodus 19. Glorify, All of Creation praises and sings His name. It's a Psalm, not our duty. Glorify, do you even know what that word means? I assume you think it means to have a big shinny light or worship and such....however that's not what the word means, it means to have ones opinion raised. For instance, if I swore at you your opinion of me would lessen however if I said you were a great person your opinion of me would raise, the riasing is the glorifying. God is glorified by what Jesus did, because of what Jesus did I think of God in a much "higher" regard. Right, and that's what Jesus came to do, to restore the fellowship we can have with God. He came for us, for us to have fellowship with God. He didn't come on His own behalf, He came because sent Him to heal our relationship with Him. 2 Corinthians 5:19 "namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation." God already accomplished this, that's not our responsibility. As far as reconciliation, it's a done deal. Do you know what reconciliation means? The root word is, Concile; to bring together...reconciliation means to bring back together, we(man) were with Him in full fellowship in the Garden but that was lost and now through the cross God has brought that back. I also find it quite interesting how you take things out of context. You quote that whole passage but seem to forget that Paul was talking about himself and his calling and why he was doing it. 2 Corinthians 12 "We are not again commending ourselves to you but are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you will have an answer for those who take pride in appearance and not in heart. 13For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14For the love of Christ controls us.... Paul is not talking about the whole body has recieved this call, this charge or responisibility, no, Paul was telling about his to combat claims made against him by opposition "Super Apostles." Just because you apply this to yourself and all Christianity doesn't make it so. In fact because you use Paul's words as though they are you, you are acknowledging you are quite in error. Howcome you don't use Jesus' words the same? Jesus said, "I am the truth the life and the way." So does that mean that all Christians are the truth the life and the way? Jesus said, "I am the ressurection" does that mean that all Christians are the ressurection? Of course not, then why when Paul says it it means all Christians? He wasnt teaching who all Christians were, he was defending whom Paul was.

IMHO you need to stop watching North American religous horror movies.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 "Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, 12so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need." second point; not all are to be preacher/teacher 1 Corinthians 12:27 "Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues." Ephesians 4:11 "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ" 1 Timothy 5:17 "The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching." 1 Timothy 2:7 "For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle" 2 Timothy 1:11 "for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher." James 3:1 "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment." John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, He gave..." It was for the world that He gave Jesus, He did not give Jesus for Jesus. Those who want to preach let them preach, those who want to heal let them heal, those who want to council let them council those who want to live let them live...for we all stand because of what He did and He is able to make us stand. It is the Father's job to raise His children, He doesn't leave it to us to raise His chinldren....He however leaves us to be able to build each other up. "Those who want to live let them live"? I don't see that listed in the gifts of the Spirit nor in the administrations. Let me ask you, what reason is there for our salvation? Is it to be a race of robots who sit around all day singing about God and talking about how great He is?

You never know, maybe we'll both learn something from one another along the way I'll be back to this thread sometime maybe to take it up from the OP again. Just don't know when yet, but when I have a break I'll come back to this thread before I go anywhere else. It'll keep you very very busy - and me. I have a feeling we've both been around this block a few times.

I live by the moto, "You need to be willing to be wrong." I have no problem listening, however, like you put I have "Come to understand" through research and experience, therefore what someone puts forth needs to merit my time. I don't think that's out of the realm of reason. I have come from a few sites were it gets down right personal. As far as you saying; I never suggested that you hadn't. However the language you used seemed quite condescending. This will be the last I mention of this, because I don't typically waste my time about these things however I am new to this site. Hopefully we can, even as people seeing things differently, get along and have some good interesting debates. Peace from Him to Us. I can see where your heart lies. You're welcome at Worthy, and that goes without saying - not because I say so (and mean it) - but because Worthy belongs to all Christians and is run by the good people who started it, and the Mods. At the end of the day there's complete unity between you and me because there is only one Holy Spirit who lives in both of us and He is the Spirit of truth. Trouble is, the illumination of the Holy Spirit of the Word of God has to pass through the filter of our minds, with all our preconceived ideas and beliefs - no matter who we are - because we all see as in a mirror, but dimly - because the mirror's image gets distorted by our own concepts. So while we might agree on a number of things, I might strongly disagree with you on a number of things (and I can see that I do), but I can see you're not arrogant, and so there won't be any reason why we won't be able to disagree agreeably. I strongly disagree with some people here who share your views about the Kingdom of Christ, the millennium etc, but I have a great deal of respect for them - like Bold Believer, for example. Why? Because it's obvious where his heart lies. So God bless you. By the way, "to the arrogant I appear arrogant" - it's a way of not allowing them to bully me. You've been around at various forums so you will know what I mean when I say that some Christians have an incredibly intelligent but extremely subtle way of making others look like they're stupid, and of gaining a "me clever, you stupid" hold over people - even though their arguments and point of view may be entirely wrong. I don't deal with everyone in the same way - I pay close attention to their tactics, and then I steal their own weapons that they use to slay others with out of their hands and use the same weapons to slay them. Sounds good to me, I will look forward to telling you why you're wrong

Interestlingly the greek here doesn't say truth, it says true. As in faithful not in correctness. So more accuratley spoken, the faithfull shall set you free. 31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." 33They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free'?" This isn't a conversation dealing with us, 2000 years later...this was talking about and to Jews, how come? Because they made an agreement with God to be faithful and obedient and Jesus was claiming to be that Faithful One, the only One that could free them, but they were so blinded they didn't understand He was telling them about freedom form the law, just as those freed from Egypt wanted to go back, many didn't even know they were in need of freedom. Jesus said to Jews, if you follow my teaching then you are faithful to me and you will know faith and that faith will free you from judgment from the law of sin and death. Again, we were included into His victory, but not into this conversation between Jesus and Jew. Knowing what is correct won't set you free, but knowing that because of HIS faithfulness we have been included into the promises of God that will benifit you greatly.

Not all are born with an evangalism type drive. Just because these guys believe and love and live with Jesus doesn't mean it's thier responsibility to preach the gospel. No, only those whom feel the call need respond, even Paul teaches not to get messed up in the ministry but to live a quite and uneventful life enjoying what Jesus paid for. What did Jesus die for? For us, to enjoy the peace joy and rightouesness of the kingdom and share time with the Father...there is no need for judgement to discearn what we do with that. Those who want to preach let them preach, those who want to heal let them heal, those who want to council let them council those who want to live let them live...for we all stand because of what He did and He is able to make us stand. It is the Father's job to raise His children, He doesn't leave it to us to raise His chinldren....He however leaves us to be able to build each other up. Peace from God.

I live by the moto, "You need to be willing to be wrong." I have no problem listening, however, like you put I have "Come to understand" through research and experience, therefore what someone puts forth needs to merit my time. I don't think that's out of the realm of reason. I have come from a few sites were it gets down right personal. As far as you saying; I never suggested that you hadn't. However the language you used seemed quite condescending. This will be the last I mention of this, because I don't typically waste my time about these things however I am new to this site. Hopefully we can, even as people seeing things differently, get along and have some good interesting debates. Peace from Him to Us.

Chronicles says, 1 Chronicles 12:38 "All these, being men of war who could draw up in battle formation, came to Hebron with a perfect heart to make David king over all Israel; and all the rest also of Israel were of one mind to make David king. 39They were there with David three days, eating and drinking, for their kinsmen had prepared for them. 40Moreover those who were near to them, even as far as Issachar and Zebulun and Naphtali, brought food on donkeys, camels, mules and on oxen, great quantities of flour cakes, fig cakes and bunches of raisins, wine, oil, oxen and sheep. There was joy indeed in Israel. and Romans... Romans 14:17 "for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" John 18:36 "Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm." Luke 17:20 "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." The Kingdom of God is not a place where everything is wonderful and perfect. No, the kingdom of God is when we are at rest within ourselves with who we are and who all are, so that we may come in complete freedom and openess to share life through love with God our Father and all that He shows mercy to as our Bretheren.

I talked to a friend about it once and the best we came up with was "progressive inclusionism." I honestly think there is no "ONE" doctrinal source that has nailed it completley, they all seem to lack some fullness to the whole picture. I don't hold any type of futurist slant, although I do believe because of the finished work of the cross the effect of it is changing what we call earth. Like a car wreck, even though it happened, the result of what happened continues on, effecting what comes after. Hope that answers your question?

I think it's funnny that you think I haven't studdied this out and have simply chosen to grasp at a few random scriptures. I simply supplied a couple of scriptures. I'm not going to pour out a huge study for you. If I spend the next two hours typing a great explanation you would just skim it and not agree with it anyway. I have learned going through many different boards that's all people seem to be interested in. I'm not new to online conversation, just new to this site. You're not interestd in hearing what I have to say, you're interested in telling me why I'm wrong. I'm interested in healthy debate not condesending retohric. Hope I'm wrong about you though. I have spent a great deal researching the scriptures and there is no doubt that the kingdom of Christ has been established completely. The idea that He went away for a couple thousand years just to come back and re-finsih something He already accomplished is unbiblical and not the best show of a well thought out plan. The book of revelation is about the Jews and the end to thier covenant with God, and it addresses the new covenant established. That's why the pictures and language are all about the Romans and Ceasar and the Jews and a history of thier people. It is also why it doesn't say anything about America, Russia or even Europe. No, the beast and false prophet and anti-christ are not for us....they were all delt with within the 40 year generation after the ascension of Christ and the Parousia...just as was prophesied and promised.

Get an Oxford Study Bible, it comes complete with apochrypha but not from a Catholic old english language, but a more contemporary University level study laguage.

There is no "final kingdom" That was the Jews problem also. Even the apostles asked Jesus about when He would set up His physical kingdom and Jesus told them His kingdom was not of this world. They expected it, just as you do, but Jesus himself denys it. They thought of a physical kingdom, God had givent them a physical kingdom, the was Israel, through David. Then that was done away with and now it's a Kingdom through spirit... "If anyone tells you that it is here or there, don't go out after it supposing it will be there for it is not. For the kingdom of heaven is in you."

http://www.entrewave.com/freebooks/docs/ht...r/Chapter20.htm Read this whole chapter, quite interesting and for those who don't want to here's a snippit: (the web site has the whole numerical chart) The second point to consider about the number 666 is this. In both Greek and Hebrew, each letter of the alphabet is also a numeral (see the table of numerals at the end of this chapter). Thus, the "number" of anyone's name could be computed by simply adding up the numerical value of its letters. Clearly, John expected that his contemporary readers were capable of using this method to discover the Beast's name

Jon 2:1-5 NASB (1) Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the stomach of the fish, (2) and he said, "I called out of my distress to the LORD, And He answered me. I cried for help from the depth of Sheol; You heard my voice. (3) "For You had cast me into the deep, Into the heart of the seas, And the current engulfed me. All Your breakers and billows passed over me. (4) "So I said, 'I have been expelled from Your sight. Nevertheless I will look again toward Your holy temple.' (5) "Water encompassed me to the point of death. The great deep engulfed me, Weeds were wrapped around my head. This was kindda pointed out, but I want to emphasize it... Jonah was alive while he was saying all these things! He was alive in the belly while praying!! What he said doesn't inpact the fact he was alive in the belling while doing it.