soulwinner

sorry still figuring out this whole quoting thing Here is my answers on a couple of your questions Brother Purp. you asked how so do the alarms go up over westcott and hort here is my basis it is not what others have accused them of it is what they have said themselves. Whenever in dealing with people no we cant take second hand accounts or accusations but we can take reputable proof and discern from there so it not what was said about them but what they said about themselves and here is a verse to go along with that. Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Here are my alarms for Westcott and Hort as follows in letters from both men first is the Life and Letters of Brooke Foss Westcott by his son Arthur Westcott (1903) and the Life and Letters of Fenton John Anthony Hort by his son Arthru Fenton Hort (1896) Here are some of the following statements by the men. 1. Mr. Hort addressing Reverend John Ellerton: "Possibly you have not heard that I have become Harold Browne's Examining Chaplain. I have only seen him two or three times in my life, not at all intimately, and was amazed when he made the proposal, in the kindest terms. I wrote to warn him that I was not safe or traditional in my theology, and that I could not give up association with heretics and such like." # 2 Mr. Westcott's son recalls how "He took a stange interest...not very long after that time, espically in Mormonism... I recollect his procuring and studying the Book of Mormon about 1840. # 3 As early as 1847 a twenty two year old Westcott acknowledged his inability to believe in Bible Miracles. "I never read an account of a miracle but I seem instinctively to feel ist improbability, and discover some want of evidence in the account of it. # 4 in one of Westcotts letters published he states on 7th on November 1847 "O Marie, as I wrote the last word, I could not help asking what am I? Can I claim the name of a believer? hang on more to come ill continue in one second it only gets better

Can you give examples of how they do this? I don't see any of the versions I listed above, for example, ever attack the deity of Christ or say that salvation is not by grace through faith alone. They all support those doctrines. Have you read the other versions? What about their textual criticisms do you disagree with? How so? Why...on what basis do these alarms go up? Certainly...he has done so from the Garden on. Does he not also try to get us to attack one another and not seek to maintain the unity we have in Christ by dividing us over the word? For example, you would not even be questioned about using a KJ in our church...but if I used my RSV in your church, I doubt it would be met with warmth, but rather judgement and an attempt to get me to change to the KJ...am I wrong? Again I'd agree, but not with your conclusion that all versions other than KJ are sources of confusion. Nothing is "wrong" with it. It is a very beautiful translation, but as with all translations, it has it's difficulties. Not one translation is perfect. To horizoneast...Hiya! Ardnt and Super Jew are talking about two different things (at least I think - SJ correct me if I misunderstand or misrepresent you). Ardnt is accurate in his explanation of the text as not being contradictory. The problem SJ is pointing out is that in the KJ (as well as some others) interprets the account in two different places in such a way that make it possible for someone to say they are contradicting each other. Read: It seems that they "heard" in one account but "heard not" in the other. If it had been interpreted by Ardnt, it may have been more clear and in line with the pure meaning of the text. In the plain English this does appear to be an absolute and utter contradiction, though in truth it is not at all. And while I don't know if I'd say along with SJ that "this translation error has lead to the disbelief of many" I would agree in principle that apparent contradictions and in some cases, errors, such as this in the KJ, and other translations, does give ammo to those who are looking to disprove Scripture and it's trustworthiness and can be cause for doubt or misunderstanding amongst believers. All for now... Purp <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lets see if that works

that was a first and by accident how can you qoute just part of what some one is saying?

i think i got it

grrr i still cant get it

how do you put in quotes i cant figure it out? I cant get that box around the quotes like everyone else does cany any one help

purple chris im still doing some studying on this i will have a load of information on this and think that salt and light and myself can make a clear presentation on this subject when we say they change some of these things it's obvious that they do when you compare versions and the devil wouldnt change every thing at once because then it wouldnt be accepted by everyone! I will address all of your questions tommrow brother purple.

soulwinner brother purple not salt and light lol but im sure he feels the same!

Brother Purple tonight I wont be able to get back to these i gotta work but tommrow i will answer what questions i can. It's refresshing though to see people that can ask questions in a nice manner thank you for that!

Super Jew what was your question to me i must have missed it?

Super Jew you didnt answer my question, now another comment one thing thats clear to see or actually several things is #1 other versions do change things like the diety of Christ, Salvation by faith through grace to works and so on. #2 Westcott and Hort are the forefathers of these new "bibles" #3 Westcott and Hort's history sends up alarms to those looking at it. #4 You can see through out history how satan has attacked God's word. #5 Satan could not destroy God's word and it seems to me if he cant destroy then he sends confusion. ie. different versions 1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Whats wrong with the old black book my daddy use to read from is it so outdated by modern translations revised standard and goodnews their everywhere I look but won't somebody tell me whats wrong with the old black book

none at all just asking a question.

Mr. Super Jew what do you think about Westcott and Hort? I know you think it's a trap I can see it now, but seriously what is your take on the two?

You also have to look at what greek manuscripts are being used this is what it boils down to! If the manuscript is corrupt hence so will the version, Westcott and Hort are the fathers behind what i believe to be corrupted versions or perversions. I did say it's what I believe and I still am entitled to that if you look at the history of the Vaticanus and Sinaticus which Westcott and Hort used to make their perversions you see the errrors in it and the KJV uses the textus recptus and if you look at Westcott and Hort one would question if they were even saved.

I am a KJV man and here are some links to web sites on this issue hope it is a help to someone! http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/knowkjv.html http://www.biblebelievers.com/Floyd_Jones/...pped_index.html http://www.biblebelievers.com/KJV_Defended_Hills.html http://www.biblebelievers.com/DNorris_oneword1.html http://www.biblebelievers.com/NIV_Challenge.html http://www.biblebelievers.com/Reagan_TALE3cities.html http://www.biblebelievers.com/Branson_KJV1.html good one http://www.biblebelievers.com/Holland1.html another good one http://www.biblebelievers.com/Vance3.html http://www.biblebelievers.com/KJV1.htm http://www.biblebelievers.com/Norriscor1.html http://www.biblebelievers.com/Hyles1.html http://www.biblebelievers.com/Jecob2.html http://www.thebelieversorganization.org/ http://www.av1611.org/kjv/reagan.html see what Ronald Reagan says http://www.av1611.org/othpubl.html http://av1611.com/kjbp/index.html

Big D we cant hide the fact there is a Judgement this topic is not about the Love of Christ, but is Hell real and is there such an awful place? When witnessing you have to warn of the Judgement If there was a bridge out and cars would go into the river wouldnt you do all you could to warn them If a scientest had a cure to aids and never told anyone and didnt help those with his cure, what kind of man would do that? An unconcerned one would, our responsibility is so much greater! Eze 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked [man], thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand

My Friend, I stand in Judgment now, And feel that you share the blame somehow. On earth, I walked with you day by day, And never did you point the way. You knew the Lord in truth and glory, But never did you tell the story. My knowledge then was very dim; You could have led me safe to Him. Though we lived together on the earth, You never told me of the second birth, And now I stand this day condemned, Why did you fail to mention Him? You taught me many things, that's true, I called you "friend" and trusted you, But now I learn that it's too late, You might have kept me from this fate. We walked by day and talked by night, And yet you showed me not the Light. You let me live, and love, and die, You knew I wouldn't live on high. Yes, I called you a "friend" in life, through joy and strife. And yet on coming to the end, I cannot, now, call you "My Friend."

Amen Brother well said

Here go my two cents there are 260 chapters in the New testament of those 234 mention Hell and Judgement If I were on a highway traveling for 260 miles and there were 234 signs of danger along the way I would seek out a different path Chirst only spoke once in describing heaven and fourteen times on describing Hell. The truth about Hell is one thing satan has deceived men about through the ages because if he can get a man to believe there is no Hell and Judgement for one's sin then that man will never ponder eternity and the state of his soul. Here is an article as well very detailed on what hell might be like for the lost. God give us a passion to reach the lost at any cost! HELL'S FIRST MOMENT.... THROUGHOUT ETERNITY Exodus 3:2 The angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked and behold, the bush burned with fire and the bush was NOT CONSUMED. Isaiah 13:8 They shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth; they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Psalms 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and pains of hell gat hold upon me, I found trouble and sorrow. ********* What mortal mind can even begin to perceive, this side of hell, what the burning will be like. Let's see if this will give you another look at lost love ones, friends, etc., and their fate if they are not saved...maybe even your fate. THE BURNING FALL Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Try to imagine for every second, throughout eternity, your body with the most excruciating sunburn. Add to that the awful pain of your whole frame scalded with boiling water. To this, add the agony of bodily movement. The skin stretches. Untold daggers of pain flash through your body. You want to hold still, but the burning from the flames will not allow it. The bubbling brimstone makes you scream. Your hair is on fire. Your feet and hands blister, while you gnaw your tongue, trying to relieve the torment. Your throat is raw from screaming and wailing. Spasms of anguish drop you into the molten lava. You go under the surface gnashing your teeth. The burning brimstone flows into your mouth; runs down your throat and into your stomach. You are on fire inside and outside. Lava, red hot and smoking, flows in your ears. As your eyes try to focus in the endless, everlasting, permanent dwelling place of total torment and torturess surroundings with your burning and a feeling of melting of your eyes overwhelms you, you look and focus on worms that have totally engulfed your body. They are crawling on and in you. You can feel them. A scream comes from your burning, flaming, fiery lips. A cry for "Water" is felt throughout your whole being. You are falling in the darkness. You feel something solid. Oh, if you only could stop falling! Your body tries to cling to the solid surface. Suddenly...you are slipping. Again, you fall into the bubbling lake. You swallow another mouthful of burning slime. The horrid smell of blazing sulphur combine with the sickening odor of burning hair and scorched flesh. Nausea overwhelms you. Something suddenly reaches out of the darkness and grasps you in terror. They begin to gnash on you with their teeth. All the time you are both screaming at the top of your lungs. You shake the gnashing person off in the darkness. Breathing heavily from the concentrated exertion, you fill your lungs with smoke. While you cough and gasp, the word "WATER!!!" escapes your inflamed lips again. Your throat is on fire. Your tongue feels like a white-hot iron against the parched roof of your mouth. Your gums pulsate with agony, while every nerve in your teeth stabs you with flashes of indescribable permanent pain. The roar of the flames and the piercing screams of the doomed and the damned seem to tear at your eardrums. Oh, for just a moment of silence! But it never comes. You can't run away this time. Thoughts of law-abiding so-called Christians didn't tell you of this place. Additionally, your thoughts go to and fro from the time you were in a Bible-believing, preaching church. Thoughts you can so clearly remember. You remember the time when the preacher was talking to you about this hopeless place of darkness and pain. He talked about Jesus and His saving Blood....... "He told me that I was a sinner! Now I accept Jesus as my Saviour. I accept what He did for me on the cross. Can't you hear me? I want to be saved! You know, born again! What the preacher said! Won't you listen? Can't you hear? Another scream escapes your burning lips.!" For eternity you scream those words again and again, over and over, repeating these words, but alas, they go nowhere. Words, meaningless words that can't be heard by God Almighty, but by the doomed. I want to be born again! Can't you hear me! Why didn't someone tell me! Why didn't they continue to tell me when I had ignored them! Didn't they care! The doomed tell you it won't work. Your words are not heard. The living and their prayers can't help. Their money won't help you here. You are condemned here for eternity just as we are. Another scream escapes your burning lips, "NO!"

With any one who is being honest you can see the words to most of this "christian" music is not in the least bit edifying and as the case of the one song he admitted it was not a spiritual song so according to God's word we shouldnt listen to that particular song and it is obvious there are many more to follow that would fall into that category.