brakelite

On 4/12/2018 at 4:35 AM, GandalfTheWise said:

Question Set 1

WATER: What is your favorite kind of water in nature? and why?

ANIMAL: What is you favorite kind of wild animal?  and why?

PLACE: What place on earth would you like to go see?  and why?

HOLIDAY: What is your favorite holiday? and why?

AWESOMENESS: What is the coolest or most awesome thing that you seen?  and why?

I grew up in a coastal town and learned to swim in the sea. I was surfing by age 8, and a life-guard at 13. I competed nationally rowing surf-boats in my late teens, and am still mind surfing at 65. So, the surf. I can sit on the beach for hours watching dolphins surfing, and sea gulls skimming waves. Every wave is different, and when in the water, each one a different challenge.

Favorite animal was a black cattle dog who was given me by the wife of a deceased farmer I worked for. So constantly willing to work and please. And when not working a great companion just walking through the bush or around the farm.

@GandalfTheWise You'd love New Zealand. Lived there nearly my entire life and swore black and blue that I would never live anywhere else to anyone who had the time to listen. Now I live in Australia. But only because of my answer to number 5. Where I would love to go, well, equal first to two places. Jeffrey's Bay in South Africa (look it up on youtube and you will see why) and any game reserve in Africa. 

My favorite holiday is Christmas. I don't celebrate it as the birth of Christ, but it is a great family reunion each year with the added opportunity for witness as it is the one time of the year everyone is willing to hear the gospel without too much prejudice. 

This one was easy. My life at present is awesomeness. I retired from farming in 2016 and my daughter and son-in-law immediately invited my wife and I to come and live with them in Melbourne. We are now thoroughly enjoying watching 6 of our 12 grandchildren grow up at our feet. Well sort of at our feet. The oldest, at 17, is 6'5". The youngest is 4. Just loving life at the present. And they all love Jesus to bits. 

On 4/15/2018 at 3:56 AM, GandalfTheWise said:

They become part of the family.  Here's our 120# lap dog keeping my wife warm.  And yes, his paws are that large.  

"LAP" ???!!!! Dog. Yeah, okay. He's fabulous. Totally. Awesome. The kind of animal you want close to you for eternity in the new earth. Along with whatever else takes your fancy, but the above, that is special.

Muslims believe that when Allah says "I forgive you" it is all-sufficient. They see no requirement for redemption and a judicial price to be paid. On the other hand, what they see in Christianity is mostly the Catholic version of justification. That even though one is forgiven, a price is still to be paid by the sinner, aka penance/purgatory. 

The power of the Spirit comes only with truth. Muslims and all others are converted when they encounter truth if they are open and willing to learn and understand. That truth is found only in the gospel. Not the social gospel of Pope Francis...not the works/ sacramental gospel of traditional Catholicism...not the presumptuous gospel of some which declare a Christian cannot sin...nor the selfish prosperity gospel of the televangelists...but rather the gospel once delivered to the saints...

That Christ died for me, a sinner, and that on account of the precious blood offered in my stead, I am accounted righteous before a holy God. All the condemnation and penalty for my transgressions have been met at the cross. I am now justified. But atonement was not made at the cross. Although it is thus taught, that atonement was made and finished at Calvary when the Lamb of God died, and though much of the Christian world so believes this to be, and the majority of churches teach this, the popularity of the concept does not make it any more true, if unsupported by divine authority. Perhaps many who attempt to share the gospel today are unaware of this, and wonder at why it seems the Spirit is so unsupportive of that concept. Allow me to make some points...

1. If the atonement was made at Calvary, by whom was it made? The making of atonement is the work of a priest, but who officiated at Calvary? Roman soldiers and wicked Jews. 

2. The slaying of the lamb did not make atonement, because it was the sinner that slew the victim. See Levit. 4:1-4; 13-15 etc. After that, the priest took the blood into the sanctuary and made atonement. Levit. 4:5-12; 16-21.

3. Christ was the appointed High Priest to make atonement, and certainly could not have acted in that capacity until after His resurrection. There is no evidence He did anything of that sort while on earth after His resurrection.

4. The atonement was made in the sanctuary...Calvary was not such a place....it was 'outside the gate'. 

5. According to Hebrews 8:4 Christ could not make the atonement while on earth, because He could not be a priest while on earth, not being born of Levi. The Levitical priesthood was an earthly function, the heavenly priesthood divine. 

6. Therefore Jesus could not begin His work of atonement, whatever nature that work was, until after His ascension and entrance into the heavenly sanctuary as described in Hebrews, wherewith His own blood He now ministers as our High Priest in making atonement for us.

Thus the gospel that we must teach others must be a gospel in its entirety. No compromises, no shortcuts, no excuses. The power of the full gospel is then made manifest in bearing fruits of righteousness in those who by nature are still sinners, but who are being transformed by the renewing of their mind after the character and similitude of their Savior. Being justified at the cross...sanctified by the work of truth and the word of God through the ministry of our High Priest in heaven...we then may offer hope to the sinner that glorification is then inevitable to all those who remain faithful and true to their Creator and Redeemer.

I am perplexed at how any Catholic can look at this without shame and embarrassment. Is this not the epitome of every essential meaning of the word 'Antichrist'? 'He who stands in the place of Christ'....'instead of Christ'. How can any Protestant look at this and not shake their head in astonishment at how far removed from the reformers they have come? The reformers looked at scenes and declarations such as this, and recognized fully the blasphemy and arrogance of this haughty power, and had this power dead to rights when they declared her the Antichrist of scripture. Today, Protestantism looks somewhere else, as if Rome has changed. No, it is Protestantism that has apostatized from the truth.
And when the beast comes knocking at the door seeking submission to her authority, Protestantism bows, and surrenders. Protestants today will accept the mark of the beast as readily as eating tomorrows breakfast because they do not know, nor do they any longer believe in the Bible.

Martin Luther wrote:
...nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist. For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? For all these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the Papal tyranny. Martin Luther, 'First Principles' p196-197

In the book of Revelation, we are presented with a beast coming up out of the sea, which is symbolic of peoples, nations, and tongues. This beast has upon its head a name. Blasphemy. In the Bible, we are shown clearly what constitutes blasphemy. 

Matt. 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Are there any true Protestants left willing to uphold truth without compromise and fear? Protestantism is not just about the negative connotation of protesting against something. The true Protestant upholds something. He is pro...for...the testimony. He is an upholder of the truth as it is found in Christ. He is one who continues the fight against error by proclaiming the true gospel, that gospel once delivered to the saints, perverted by the Roman apostasy, brought back to life by the Reformation, and continued to be taught by "those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12:17 
Who are these traitors against the truth who are now trampling upon the blood of the reformers and signing lying fraudulent documents that proclaim the protest over? To all who read this...do not join in the current fanaticism that is seeking unity with Antichrist...and if you are a part of that counterfeit system, God says to you, "come out of her that ye be not a partaker of her sins and that ye receive not of her plagues". Revelation 18:4

2Thessalonians 2:4 
‭Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.‭ 

Revelation 20:11 
‭And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.‭ 

Numbers 7:89 
‭And when Moses was gone into the tabernacle of the congregation to speak with him, then he heard the voice of one speaking unto him from off the mercy seat that ‭was‭ upon the ark of testimony, from between the two cherubims: and he spake unto him.‭ 

Ezekiel 1:5 
‭Also out of the midst thereof ‭came‭ the likeness of four living creatures. And this ‭was‭ their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.‭  

56 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi brakelite,

Yes I agree that physical and mental persecution, trials do drive us to the Lord, and He develops character by His Holy Spirit. And further to that we need to grow in knowing the truth of Christ, and His purposes otherwise we can be led astray.

I`m in the airport lounge and so that post is short.

Marilyn.

Happy travels!

On 2/27/2018 at 12:27 PM, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

I do not interact much with people. I am spending time alone with my mind most of the time.

As a result, my interaction with people is not that great.

 

I feel that if the Spirit lead me to talk, I feel to talk and it just come out. To talk is not the problem (if I have something to say), but I am not good in talking that much, it is not something I practice regularly.

 

The truth is that, an introvert is not well suited to do jobs of an extrovert. Just like an extrovert will face a hard time of spending too much time alone in an empty room; but for an introvert that is just easy, very easy.

"And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one,
    to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey." - Matthew 25:15

"No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary." - 1 Corinthians 12:22

Yep, that's me too...but learning to socialise more. I want to socialise more. But yeah, I can very easily walk into the bush, sit under atree and stay there all day alone. Or walk the streets or the local park. Praying and meditating. 

On 2/27/2018 at 8:18 AM, Marilyn C said:

Physical sufferings do not mature us, it is the heart that needs to bow to the Lordship of Christ in everything.

Physical and mental persecution will drive us to Jesus. This will further develop character, but our characters are tested every day to stretch and mature us. In the end, we will be complete and entire, wanting nothing. The time we spend through the final plagues, protected and shielded from the dangers all around us, will not be a test, but a revealing of those characters already developed. By then it will be too late to grow...we will have already been judged as either a sheep or a goat, and the Lord dealing with all accordingly.

On 2/27/2018 at 7:37 AM, Heleadethme said:

 and the earth will be harvested (by who?...sons of God?....maybe?)

Revelation 14:14-20

14  And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15  And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16  And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17  And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18  And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19  And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20  And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

I see here perhaps angels dividing the sheep from the goats...the sheep to be taken home, the goats to be killed ...the angels under direction of Jesus. That winepress and blood for a certain depth and distance? Not sure about that, certainly not literal...although all the wicked shall suffer under the wrath of God and will have already suffered through the final plagues...those who have managed to survive will die at the sight of the glory of God. 

Looking forward to being carried by an angel to wherever....

6 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

(Christians who don't think they have to obey the Lord and who don't want to obey Him may accuse those who insist upon obedience to Him of being proud, self-righteous and judgmental, and of preaching salvation by works and a mean and angry God.)

Ain't that the truth.

10 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

If you're an SDA, and you're actually born-again, I am giving you an ultimatum, before I ignore your posts and leave you to the Lord for Him to deal with as He sees fit: Either stop trying to promote Sabbath-keeping or leave this thread, per the guidelines of the thread as outlined in the original post.

My posts on this thread follow precisely the criteria laid out as guidelines for this thread...upholding the righteousness of Christ by faith....and encouraging others to do the same. In rejecting that it is you who perhaps inadvertently has placed herself in the hands of the Lord. 

10 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

Your preoccupation with the Sabbath in particular out of all the other commandments of the law of Moses God makes no sense

Your preoccupation in rejecting the 4th commandment while upholding the other nine makes no sense, and is the reason God needs to remind everyone to remember it. However, as you wish. I will take my leave.

7 hours ago, Davida said:

The claiming that: "Works are required to keep Salvation"-- is simply Not taught

With all due respect to all on this thread, I agree with the above quote from Davida, but I also think she is misunderstanding the meaning of works and meaning of salvation. And I put this down to the confusion of doctrine that is rife throughout Christendom, both with Catholic and non-Catholic circles. (I hesitate to call non-Catholic churches Protestant...that no longer is the case, sadly.) The current predominant idea with the Calvinistic mindset that the cross of Calvary is all one needs for salvation, that the work is "finished" there, that one needs only to confess Jesus and he is saved, and that once saved always saved and nothing he does from that point on can affect his salvation, and that even when he commits an "offence" as a Christian, of whatever magnitude, is not actually sin because a Christian "cannot sin", and after all he is saved anyway, is placing the entire fabric of the church in jeopardy. 

The cross did not finish the work of salvation in man. If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then we would have no hope. If Jesus was not now mediating in heaven as our High Priest we would not have power to obey. We were justified at the cross. But without being sanctified, which is a process through which we are made holy, by which our sin is removed from the life, by which we are empowered to obey God's commandments, then we are as much lost as if Christ never came at all. Our obedience, our keeping of God's commandments, are not the means by which attain salvation, but one can be fully assured that we will NOT be saved except we repent, turn away from, and repudiate every last vestige of wickedness and sin in the life. There are numerous promises in the scripture which guarantee, because God cannot lie, that we can overcome sin. That sin shall NOT have dominion over us, but that we shall have dominion over sin. The concept that we will sin till the day is a denial of the power of God, and an excuse for disobedience. 

Even in the OT sanctuary service the altar of sacrifice was only the very first step in God's plan of salvation for Israel. And the altar represents Calvary. But Israel was not saved at the altar. Israel did not celebrate their complete emancipation from sin until the end of the day of atonement when the high priest came out of the most holy place to once again appear before the people. This departing of the high priest from the most holy place represents the departure of Jesus, our High Priest, out of the most holy place in the heavenly sanctuary and come the second time to earth to take His justified, sanctified, and soon to be glorified people home.

Good works, are merely a euphemism for being a nice person...anyone, the most determined atheist, can do good works. What God requires is obedience. In everything. Without hesitation. Without quibbling. Jesus did not come to save us in our sins. He came to save us from our sins. Amen?

On 3/19/2018 at 1:31 AM, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

But do not make your personal belief or conviction a rule for other Christians when there is no such commandment given to us.

God's commandments are not my personal belief or conviction. They existed a long long time before I appeared on the scene. I am not trying to foist upon anyone a philosophy that I invented and made personal. I like what you have been writing on this thread. You have consistently and with great conviction upheld righteousness and obedience to God's commandments as being essential to being true followers of Christ. Not in order to be justified, but as an integral part of the process of sanctification, without which no-one will see God.  I am merely echoing those same thoughts, but including the 4th commandment for one reason and one reason only. Nowhere in scripture does it say that God has removed His blessing and sacredness from that day. 

On 3/19/2018 at 1:31 AM, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to the tomb. (Matthew 28:1)

On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight. (Acts 20:7)

Now concerning the collection for the saints: as I directed the churches of Galatia, so you also are to do. On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come. (1 Corinthians 16:1,2)

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day (not "the Sabbath"), and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet... (Revelation 1:10)

 

The above texts are incredibly weak basis for changing an explicit commandment that specifies a certain day, to another day. Only one of the above suggests a meeting of any kind. And that meeting took place on the dark part of the first day of the week, that is Saturday night...at the close of the Sabbath. Paul was leaving 'on the morrow' , or next morning, which would have been Sunday morning. A very shaky foundation there for Sunday keeping. There are only 7 other references to the first day in scripture, apart from at creation. Five of them were directly related to the resurrection, the 6th to when the disciples were cowering in a room because they were afraid they were going to suffer the same fate as Jesus, and the last reference to Paul's request to lay aside an offering for the saints at Jerusalem. Nothing in that last one suggests he was going to pick that offering up on the first day. It was the person's first fruits. After Sabbath the first day of the week was a day of work. The first days pay was to be set aside for others. Do we not do that with our tithe and offerings? 

The Revelation 1:10 text simply says the Lord's day. Nothing in that suggests the first day, second day, or whatever day. Just because the modern church calls Sunday the Lord's day, does not mean that is what John was referring to. So we must go elsewhere to discern which day it was that belonged to the Lord. We find that in Mark 2:28. 

Should we not obey God in a fashion which He commands rather than in a way we prefer or is popular or held by the majority?

Just now, brakelite said:

Sorry, but to say people are condemned if they do not keep the Sabbath is incorrect.

 

That is not what I am saying. However, the gospel is the way of salvation. Inherent in the gospel as I showed is giving glory to God because He is Creator...which included the Sabbath, a day He blessed and sanctified. Now regardless of whether the Jews were given it or not...regardless of whether Christians have or have not kept it since Christ's time...the day itself remains blessed and the Creator God is still worthy of all the glory because of creation, which the Sabbath celebrates. You cannot divide Sabbath from creation...and you cannot divide the Creator from that which He created...nor can you give Him the glory for doing so and at the same time set aside that day which reminds everyone of Who it is that created. 

James 4:17  Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

It is also sin if we decline to prayerfully and honestly investigate these issues when we have a Bible on the shelf which informs us to what is truth. I cannot judge you personally, therefore I am not saying you are condemned for not keeping Sabbath. There will be millions of non-Sabbath keepers in heaven. But as I said, the gospel is salvational, and the law cannot be separated from it when it is the law that reflects God's character. 

2 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Sorry, but to say people are condemned if they do not keep the Sabbath is incorrect.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
    who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." - Romans 8:1

 

You can keep the Sabbath, you can abstain from pork, you can follow all the dietary laws of the OT... But if Jesus is not in you, you will be rejected.

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
    Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." - Romans 8:9

 

When will people learn that the law is unable to save?!

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." - Romans 10:4

 

Glory to God! Amen.

When will people learn that those keeping the law aren't doing so to be saved? On the contrary, only those with Christ in them are capable of obeying God's commandments. So why suggest that because I choose to obey God's commandments with regard Sabbath keeping and follow His recommendations on how to care for this body He made for me, I am therefore unsaved?

Rom. 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. 

11 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

One of the apostles who make up the FOUNDATION of our faith made it clear that each one is to simply follow their own conscience with regard to these matters.  And that we are to come under the rule of no-one in regards to it........"Let no one judge (rule) you in food or drink or regarding a festival or new moon or sabbath."  How wise and all-knowing is our God.

Yes, Colossians 2 is interesting. Verses 4 and 8 warns us to take no heed of those who would quote: spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Thus Paul is warning Christians that people outside of Christ would attempt to beguile them through falsehoods...from verse 18 we may deduce again that it was the deceivers, the ones outside of Christ, who was beguiling and judging the Christians in respect of those things mentioned in Verse 16. They had been imposing their man-made commandments and traditions upon the Colossians. Paul told them not to allow anyone to judge them concerning those matters. Is not Sunday...'Christ is my rest'...no special day...any day of the 7...all man-made beliefs for which there is no foundation in scripture? Has not the church been beguiled already to the extent that there is now so much hatred for Sabbath keeping as we now witness within Christendom and without any solid agreement on why?

The deception began in earnest with Rome and the setting of dates for Easter as opposed to Passover. Until that time, the church celebrated the death and resurrection at the same time as the Jewish passover...but the coercion used to bring all churches into the Papal umbrella with easter continued afterward with Sunday. Interesting history.

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

The SDA doctrine has been disprove. 

Regardless of whether it is Adventist teaching or not, if you can show me from scripture where my post above is wrong, then fine. I will accept my error. Most claim that SDA teaching is unbiblical. I have shown above that it is Biblical. It is not the figment of anyone's imagination. You don't have to agree with it, but it is neither whimsical or heretical. 

2 Peter 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue....so His divine power has provided us with all things that pertain to life and godliness (no excuse for sin there) and this godliness comes to us through our knowledge of Him.  (See John 17:3...this is a salvational issue). What is this divine power? It is creative power. It is that power which makes us new creatures in Christ. It is the power which raised Christ from the dead...the same power that raises us from self-replicating moral viruses into the righteousness of Christ...
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.....what is Paul suggesting here? In Romans he says sin shall no longer have dominion over us, and above we see that the same power that gave Jesus dominion over all things, is the same power that works in us, that we, through partaking of the divine nature and believing the promises of God, may have dominion over sin! Sadly, many people do not believe this possible. We hear constantly that whilst in this flesh, we will continue to sin until Jesus comes...maybe even beyond that!! How can anyone overcome if their faith cannot grasp the wonderful promises that guarantee victory?

.....

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust....however, our partaking of that divine nature (which separates us from the world) comes by way of promises, therefore nothing is automatic...promises are received by faith. Now where else may we see a similar promise?

Romans 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren....God has predetermined that those who come to Him in faith, grasping the promises, will be conformed into the image of His Son!!! This folks is not about appearance. This is about character. The divine nature Paul is referring to is not omnisience or omnipresence or any other omni...it's about righteousness. 

Let me take you somewhere else for a moment...in Revelation another promise is that the Father's name will be written in our foreheads. Now don't think for a moment that we are all going to be literally tattooed on our brows with YAHWEH or any of His numerous other names or titles, no. I love Exodus 33 and 34, where Moses was talking with God and pleaded with God that He would go with them. Then Moses had the audacity...faith and confidence...to ask God ....

Exodus 33:18-23

18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory...
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Exodus 34:5-8
5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.
6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

I truly hope you can make the connections here. We are promised the divine nature...His character...His righteousness. God's glory is His character. His character is found in His name. 
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Now let's go back to that promise in Revelation concerning the Father's name in our foreheads. Elsewhere is the promise of the seal of God in the forehead. While it is true that the sealing is integral to the character and a settling into truth by the Spirit of God, both spiritually and intellectually, a seal in human terms is bound up in law...it is a guarantee that a law has been approved/ratified by the reigning monarch/president/minister. The laws of God are transcripts of His character. We are informed elsewhere that God shall write His laws in our hearts and on His mind...I strongly suggest, though I know this is unpopular, that the mark of the beast is not a literal mark on the skin but an attitude of mind...a state of mind that has accepted the same mindset as the beast; that agrees with the beast power on matters of spiritual truth and doctrine. Where is the mind? Is it not in our forehead? Are we not sealed by the Spirit in our foreheads? Is not the name of the Father written in our forehead? Are we not promised that we may be partakers of the divine nature...the righteousness of Christ? Is not our character first established in the mind?
I also strongly suggest that the divinity we are promised is bound up in the laws of God and the character of God. This character of the divine, is promised and available today. It means dominion over sin which is transgression against the law. It means that by faith and the sure knowledge of the one who has promised, we may overcome, in this life!!! 
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.....
.....21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Now you may be wondering what the above has to do with the gospel. 

Romans 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Revelation 14:6-7

6  And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7  Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

The whole gospel is bound up in obedience to God's commandments and reflecting His character of love to mankind. We are called, as an integral part of that same everlasting gospel, to fear God, give Him glory, but notice which God we are called to honour...in Revelation 14:7 it is the God who made...the Creator God  who made heaven and earth, the sea, and the fountains of waters. Where else do we find such words? 

Revelation 4:8  And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9  And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10  The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11  Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power:

Why is God worthy of glory and honour which the everlasting gospel requires of us???

for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Now, how can we fully give God that glory due Him when we ignore this??

8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.....

11  For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

How can we fully honour the Creator when we ignore that which completed creation? Was not the Sabbath also created by God for man to enjoy and through its blessing honour Him who made it? How is the law complete...how is the character of God honoured...how can we give all glory to Him as He deserves when we sell ourselves short of complete revelation? 

Final thought. The seal spoken of in Revelation is not just an intellectual and spiritual settling into truth, but can also be a literal seal pertaining to God's law. Without the 4th commandment identifying the Creator as the God of that law, whose law would it be? Any man, angel, or group or institution could come up with a set of laws similar to the ten commandments. But like the seal of POTUS, which gives the laws of the land an official stamp of approval from the ruling authority, identifying his name, rank, and territory over which he resides, so also does the 4th commandment act as God's seal on His holy law. To set it aside is to rob the law of its authority and power.

 

Isaiah 33:14-15

14  The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

15  He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil.

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1 hour ago, KiwiChristian said:

do you really want me to answer your questions?

No, not really...just for consideration.

2 hours ago, KiwiChristian said:

Again:

 

The Bible is not a book but a collection of 66 books, written over a span of 1600 years across 3 continents, by over 40 writers inspired by God in 3 languages yet it has ONE primary theme ( The Glory of God and salvation of mankind ) and zero errors or contradictions.

Ignore the word "trinity". its not important.
God is everlasting, eternal, without beginning or end. God is unchanging, infinite,  omnipresence, omniscient , self-existent, self-sufficient, immaterial and omnipotent
There is only ONE God. God Himself says He knows of NO OTHER GOD and if He is all-knowing, He would know if there was any other Gods.
The Bible says that God the father is God.
The Bible says that Jesus is God. John 8:58, John 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Isaiah 44:6 ( crossreference  Revelation 1:17 )
The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3,4. Romans 8:11
The Bible also says there is ONE God. DEUTERONOMY 6:4, DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39, DEUTERONOMY 32:39, 2 SAMUEL 7:22, 1 KINGS 8:60, 2 KINGS 5:15 , 2 KINGS 19:15,  NEHEMIAH 9:6,  PSALM 18:31 ( Which also states Jesus is God ),  PSALM 86:1, ISAIAH 37:16,20, ISAIAH 43:10,11, ISAIAH 44:6,8, ISAIAH 45:21, ISAIAH 46:9, HOSEA 13:4, MARK 12:29-34, ROMANS 3:30, 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4-6, 1 TIMOTHY 2:5.
Therefore, somehow, these three entities constitute the one, eternal, everlasting God.
We are not told HOW God is God, that is not important. God just tells us thats the way it is.

You say that the word trinity isn't important, yet in history people have been executed for not accepting it. Along with Sunday sacredness the trinity is the foundation of Catholicism. That makes it very important for Protestants also who claim to have scripture as the basis for faith and practice yet by cleaving resolutely to both the trinity and Sunday, follow Catholic tradition. And term those who accept neither of these teachings as heretics. Seems fairly important to me. 

So while I agree with the scriptures you have presented, what I disagree with is their application as given in the creeds. So while it is true that the holy Spirit is divine, the creeds go beyond that in claiming the Spirit as an independent being who is God. It is similar with the only begotten Son Who it is claimed is equal to the Father in all things which destroys the whole concept of Father and Son. I notice you have avoided the issue of Father and Son in your presentation above, yet belief in the Father/Son concept is essential to salvation...trinity is not.

See 1 John 1:1-3; 1 John 2:22-24; 1 John 4:9,10,14,15; 1 John 5:1-5, 9-13, 20; John 5:26,27,30; 17:3; Matt. 16:15-18.

As for the holy Spirit, please consider carefully the following...

Romans 8:9; 1 Cor. 8:6; Gal. 4:4-6; Eph. 4:6

Some supplementary questions:

1. If a non-trinitarian declares his doubts on that concept, yet maintains his faith in Jesus being the Son of God, why is Jesus's divinity brought into question?

2. Why is a concept or formula which arose in the 4th century considered a better means by which to ascribe divinity to Christ than the declaration of Peter, approved by God Himself, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God?"

3. Why is it so essential to make the Father and Son of equal ages in order to fully establish the divinity of Jesus particularly in light of Colossians 2:9?

4. Why can we not simply accept the Bible testimony regarding the one true God, instead of denying, reasoning, and teaching something contrary? 1 Cor 8:6...John 17:3....Ephesians 4:6.....1 Cor. 11:3....Eph. 1: 15-17.

1 hour ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

If you want to encourage Christians to keep the law of Moses (God forbid), you can start your own thread to do so (may God have mercy on you if you do);

Why do you insist on referring to the law of Moses? When God gave the tables of stone to Moses on Sinai what theological miracle changes the ownership of those laws from God to Moses? When we sin, do we go to Moses for forgiveness? When John describes sin as being the transgression of the law, did he mean Moses's law or God's? When we commit adultery, do we sin against Moses or God? When we kill do we offend Moses or God? 

1 hour ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

James may not have had the epistles that we have, but he did have the teachings of Jesus;

Indeed he did...heard them with his own ears. And spoke to Paul in person which conversations no doubt would have included such things as we are discussing today. Interesting that no where is it even suggested anywhere in any of James's or Paul's letters, or anyone else's for that matter, that the weekly Sabbath which Israel had honoured (sort of) for over 1000 years was suddenly an optional extra. What is also interesting is that no-one today can agree as to why the church doesn't keep Sabbath. There are as many views and theories as to why Sabbath is no longer obligatory as there are denominations. And none of those theories are to be found in scripture. 

What is even more interesting is that Jesus taught precisely the opposite. The very same Jesus you say James heard and followed. 

Matthew 5:17-19

17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Now what law is Jesus referring to here? And what commandments is he meaning when he condemns those who teach others that they can break them? He informs us just a few verses later when He speaks of killing and adultery. Jesus is speaking of the moral law, to which the 4th commandment is a central tenet. It is that law James was referring to when he also referred to killing and adultery as being a part of that very same royal law (see James 2:11); so you are indeed correct, James listened to his Master and Lord and taught what Jesus taught. Thus your contention that they were talking about only NT commandments is a crock.

Now of course I know you said that you weren't going to say anything more on that matter. Bury your head in the sand if you like, but this will not go away by your ignoring it. And it has everything  to do with exhorting Christians who love Jesus. 

John 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5:1  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

22 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

(Remembering to be doers of the word and not hearers only.)

You do realise do you not that James did not have the NT laid out before him that he would refer to as the 'word'? And that the commandments you refer to as those of the NT being the ones we must adhere to James would not have been familiar with? But he was familiar with the commandments of God as revealed to Israel. He called it the royal law. 

8  If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9  But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11  For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12  So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is not here talking about the ceremonial law, but the moral law of ten commandments. While the ten commandments are a part of the law of Moses, the ten commandments are more essentially the law of God, the royal law that if you break just one part of, you are guilty of transgressing the whole law. Let this not be given as reason to discard the law, but rather motivation to cleave to Jesus who only has the power to impart to us the strength and spirit necessary to obey...all the commandments. Including the 4th.

On another note. The auto-immune defence system that comes to the fore every time someone mentions the Sabbath which immediately brings accusation of legalism against Sabbath keepers is a form of self deception. It is a revelation of a personal failure in either comprehending or even acknowledging the possibility that Sabbath keepers can and do obey God's 4th commandment because they recognise it as a part of that royal law that James refers to in which he says that if we break one point, we are guilty of breaking them all. They also fail to recognise the possibility that Sabbath keepers may be so out of love for their Saviour, and Sabbath keeping was a natural by-product of their relationship with Him.