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About brakelite

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    Senior Member

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    A Kiwi in Melbourne.
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    Cleaving to my Savior that by His grace and power I may be continually conformed to His image so that when He comes He may find me fully clothed in the wddinggarment of His choosing...and urging others to do the same.

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  1. Saturday or Sunday?

    We do rest in Christ. Absolutelyb I have never denied that. Does resting in Christ however necessarily mean the annulment of a commandment? Nowhere in scripture...I say again nowhere does scripture suggest any annulment or change or removal of any of God's ten commandments. That is presumption. You folk need to stop viewing obedience to a commandment as a burden and take Isaiahs advice and treat it as a delight. Then not only do you rest spiritually in Christ but you also honor the very day he set aside as a gift for you to rest your bodyb thus keeping it holy and not profaning it.
  2. Saturday or Sunday?

    What all are forgetting is that at creation, Jesus created a day and sanctified it, and made it holy. Nowhere in scripture are we advised that He has made it unholy.At that time there was not a Jew...not an Israelite nation...not even a sinner. It was a day in which Jesus and Adam shared a day of fellowship together ...Adam hasn't even worked yetb he hadn't earned his rst, it was a gracious gift granted him by his Creator. Later, Jesus declared that it was for man's sake the Sabbath was made and that He, Jesus, was the Lord of it. Which makes the Lord's day the 7th day Sabbath, not Sunday. As for Jesus' resurrection, yes He rose on Sunday. But the new covenant began the moment He shed His blood two day previously. and guess what He did in between On the Sabbath? He rested!! His own observance of Sabbath in death was His first act under the new covenant.
  3. Saturday or Sunday?

    I will remind you that this conversation began from a simple request on my part for anyone to Biblically defend Sunday observance. The answer I have since received is a clear support of Sunday as a tradition, and a condemnation of those who would choose to observe Sabbath. That is bad enough, that you would condemn as heretics anyone who seeks to obey a commandment. But what is worse is that you are doing so without any knowledge whatsoever of these people's motives. That is abomination. You are placing yourself upon Gods throne. You do not know me. You do not know my friends. And despite your self glorying self righteous "you know it all" attitude regarding Adventist teaching, I will repeat, you may think you know, but you understand nothing. As for your so called exegesis aboveb it is a flat denial of not only Paul's words but also his testimony. As ,inChrist, pointed out Jewish and Gentile Christians observed Sabbath in Actsb and there is historical testimony that Sabbath observance continued long after the apostolic era. Interestingly it was the orthodox Sunday keepers who persecuted the Sabbath keepers ...nothing new under the sun.
  4. False doctrine

    Are you serious? Where were you when Shiloh wrote that I was not a Christian?
  5. Saturday or Sunday?

    For further study: D.A. Carson, ed., From Sabbath to Lord's Day (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1982). https://www.gospeloutreach.net/sabbath.html As far as Col.2:14-17 is concerned it is NOT clear at all that Paul was including the weekly Sabbath day in his passage. Paul himself qualifies what things were done away in verse 17 KJV Colossians 2 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Only those feasts, Sabbath etc that were shadows were done away. No others. The weekly Sabbath was never a type, shadow, of anything to come, but a MEMORIAL of creation. It looked back, not forward. It could NOT have been a shadow of the ministry of Christ under any reasoning because it was established before the fall, which event came later and was the reason for Christs coming. Anything before the fall, including marriage, was holy and sacred, and was to remain so until all things were completed.
  6. Saturday or Sunday?

    Actually no. Very much no. I should not be chomping at the bit to do anything of the sort. However way I personally observe Sabbath is between me and God. It starts with the commandment. Remembering to keep it holy. How I go about that is personally tied into my relationship with Jesus. That is not something I can put forth as a recommendation for anyone. You can work that out for yourself. Isaiah 58, long a passage known as a Christian template for living an abundant lufe, would be a good help. But again, it starts with the commandment, and to claim that any of Gods commandments cannot be kept through His grace and power underestimates the power of God.
  7. Saturday or Sunday?

    Riighht. So you are depending on people's opinions as to what the SDA church teaches. I have seen a myriad of perspectives and opinions on justification and sanctification from people outside the SDA church, from mainline Christendom to Messianics...from orthodox to hardline Calvinist...so many opinions, arguments, debates, as I am sure you have seen for yourself, but tell me something. How many of those do you think would advocate that by ignoring the 10 commandments, even openly and or wilfully disobeying them, which the Bible calls sin, that anyone can still be saved? And did you check that those SDA folk coming here were actually teaching or depositing clearly our beluefs...not everyone is as eloquent and intellectually advanced as yourself. Does every Presbyterian fully understand Calvinism? Do you condemn all Presbyterians because some do not get the theology of justification by faith into words in a clear succinct manner?
  8. Saturday or Sunday?

    Have you actually read, prayed, and studied for yourself SDA fundamental beliefs or taken the word of others?
  9. False doctrine

    KJV Matthew 24 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
  10. Saturday or Sunday?

    Is obedience to the 7th commandment a key salvational component you think? SDAs teach that obedience to all ten commandments are salvational. That the Sabbath is singled out by you as an exception is not an SDA problem, but yours. All I was asking on this thread was for a biblical foundation for allowing Sunday observance to be considered paramount over Sabbath observance. For what is essentially a tradition to take precedence over a commandment. Should be easy...surely there's plenty of "thus sayeth the Lord" quotes to support such a change? And if you say that the law is no longer binding, why do you not live as if they are not binding?
  11. False doctrine

    People are.judged in accordance to how they respond to what light they have received, for without the law is no knowledge of sin.
  12. Resurrection

    Mmmm. So, according to you as per the above quote, the tradition of Sunday observance is fine and appropriate because such tradition is more 'Christian' than keeping God's commandments. Matt 15:6?
  13. Saturday or Sunday?

    And it is statements like that that reveal the complete ignorance, perhaps wilful, of so many who claim wisdom on most everything else.
  14. Saturday or Sunday?

    After agreeing with everyone that all doctrine must be substantiated with scripture all of a sudden when asked the foundation of a central doctrine of the majority of churches: a doctrine upheld even by civil legislature, you say you don't need to defend it? Seriously?? As for the Sabbath being only for Israel, if you are not part of Israel you are not Christian. As for the SDA not being part of the kingdom of God, could you be a little more clear on that please? Do you mean the SDA church as an organisation, or are you referring to individual SDAs ....namely me? Finally, as for Sabbath observance being a litmus test for salvation, I am not sure what you are claiming here. Are you A. Saying that no-one, according to the SDA church will get to heaven except they observe the Sabbath? B. That by observing the Sabbath one earns his/her salvation? Or C. Both of the above,or something else? The reason I ask is because the average Christian while claiming great knowledge and insight on most matters are in fact woefully ignorant when it comes to what the SDA church actually teaches. Particularly so when the come charging out with such injudicious and uneducated accusations which include words such as 'cult' and 'heretic'. An example is the quote above which uses the words 'litmus test', as if no Sabbath observance, no salvation, which such dogmatic declaration my church does NOT teach. For example, even atheists may be in heaven ahead of many professing Christians. Think about that.
  15. Resurrection

    Where is the "thus sayeth the Lord" that directly and succinctly counters the 4th commandment?