appy

C'mon, its rather silly to think that only one couple was able to reproduce while everyone else just stared at each other for 800 to 900 years.

Scripture is primarily speaking and dealing with the heart of man and our relationship with God.  Scripture tells us what God wants us to know.  It seems people in general speaking (collective people, no one here specifically) are not satisfied with what is already  shown us.  God is NOT keeping anything from us.  If we were shown more details, it would take away the lesson and focus of what God intended for us to know and learn.

I seems to me, people in general are always trying to make the bible fit into the mold of whatever philosophy the world holds or "aliens were here" or some other nonsense.   

11 hours ago, Greenie said:

I would like to make a comment , in all my years of celebrating Christmas I never once thought I was celebrating nimrod or any other false gods. 

11 hours ago, Greenie said:

We'd then eat breakfast as a family and afterwards open gifts, and spend the day with family.

(I quoted the above for discussion, nothing against you Greenie.)

Exactly Greenie !! When I was growing up, no unbelieving friends and relatives ever talked about pagan gods or even thought of the day as about pagan rituals. I was taught that it was a special day in which we spent time with family, relatives and friends exchanging gifts and having meals together. Kids played with toys and the adults spent the day talking about what was going on in their lives and how they were doing. Certainly NOTHING about pagan rituals.

Many, many unbelievers can fondly recall songs like “joy to the world” or “The first noel”. “what “child is this?” “Come all ye faithful” ”Hark the herald angels sing” “O Holy night” “Silent night”etc...

There is nothing evil about these songs, they are all about Christ and his coming. And that is exactly what we are thankful for... His birth. Salvation is available because Jesus came. Even atheists regard Christmas as a Christian holiday.

If I regard Christmas as a day in which I honor the Lord and am thankful for Jesus' coming, and what he means to me, why complain?

If the rituals and laws in the Old testament could bring salvation, then there would have been no need for Jesus to come and die on the cross for us.

Romans 14:5-7
5 One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes a special day does so to the Lord; he who eats does so to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone, and none of us dies to himself alone.…

Collosians 2:16
16 Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.

First of all, WCF is NOT a roman catholic site.  And neither do we endorse many of the roman catholic tenets. With that said,

It is one thing to correct people you (a collective you, no one here specifically)  know personally, and an entirely different situation to demand people you have never met in person do as you tell them to.  

Once a person has heard what is said, it is then up to that individual to decide what to do with the information. No amount of badgering is going to change anyone's mind.  Just as no one can change yours.   The people that already do not  observe Christmas do not need instruction and the people who want to observe the holiday are going to observe the holiday whether you LIKE IT OR NOT.  You are NOT them, and they are NOT you.  So it is still a good day.

Romans 14:4  (LB)
They are God’s servants, not yours. They are responsible to him, not to you. Let him tell them whether they are right or wrong. And God is able to make them do as they should.

Romans 14:4 (NIV)
 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

The Parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector  is , I think an excellent example of God hearing the prayer of an unrighteous person.  

Luke 18:9-14
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

15 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

?

It seems that you can understand what David was talking about, 

David said that I will go to him...

Where was David going? 

Where was David going at the time of his death? 

 

In 2 Samuel 12 : 18

We read that the first child from David and Bathsheba died.

Then down in verse 23 David answers the attendants concerns. “But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

David was confident that his son would meet him in heaven, when he, himself went to heaven.

@debrakay

Don't fret over the aborted babies for we know that God is just and merciful and will do right by them.  King David's words should provide us with comfort in knowing babies are with God.  Our bodies die and decay, but our spirits will live.  2 Samuel 14 : 14  and Romans 8 : 10-11 certainly provides us with the hope of salvation.  

2 Samuel 12 : 23
But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.”

Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Hebrews 9:27
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

2 Samuel 14:14
Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But that is not what God desires; rather, he devises ways so that a banished person does not remain banished from him.

Romans 8 : 10-11
Yet, even though Christ lives within you, your body will die because of sin; but your spirit will live, for Christ has pardoned it. And if the Spirit of God, who raised up Jesus from the dead, lives in you, he will make your dying bodies live again after you die, by means of this same Holy Spirit living within you.

The exact day does NOT matter.  Christians who celebrate Christmas, think of the day as  when Jesus was sent to us.  The bible calls his birth “good news”.    Jesus is God's gift to us. Some of the previous posts make  it sound as if remembering and commemorating his birth is something to be ashamed of, instead of remembering that he came to bring us  peace and joy.  Even secularists recognize Christmas as a Christian holiday and about Christ.  

Luke 2 : 10
But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people.

Instead of recognizing Christ as our Savior, we are being told that we can only be saved by keeping the sabbath instead of fixing our faith and trust in Jesus alone for salvation.  Since Jesus is the ONLY WAY to the father, how can it be that we have to go back to a useless method of trying to be good enough to get to heaven? 

Acts 4 : 12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved."

John 14 : 6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The above quote does not sound right. The creed of Islam is NOT identical to the Christian faith. Islam and Christianity are two opposing religions. They are totally incompatible. Islamic countries demand that Christians renounce their faith in Christ and adhere to the Islamic belief system. Those nine people did NOT deny their faith in Jesus. They refused to become Muslims.

Islam does not believe Jesus is God's son, neither do they believe he died on the cross. Nor do they follow or believe in the other core essential beliefs of the Christian faith.

Big difference between the religious leaders and someone today attending a church service. The sin the religious leaders committed, wasn't that their prayers were in public but because of the pretense and games they played.

Their attitudes and actions were hypocritical. Pharisees’ desire was to be seen by men as righteous, not really to talk to God. They pretended piety while stealing from widows and oppressing people. Jesus condemned their arrogance and hypocrisy. In other words, the sin lies in a person's motive.

The right attitude and right reason, we can indeed pray in public. Praying for prideful reasons only receives earthly rewards.  Jesus prayed publicly when he gave thanks for the fish and loaves of bread to the people not once, but twice. The whole chapter of John 17 is a public prayer said by Jesus

John 11 : 41 - 42
So they took away the stone. Then Jesus lifted His eyes upward and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.  I knew that You always hear Me, but I say this for the benefit of the people standing here, so they may believe that You sent Me.”

The above passage is Jesus praying publicly. The bible teaches us to come together for worship and prayer. Our motive for praying is key, even when we are alone behind closed doors.

No offense intended, but the apocrypha books don't interest me.  I've seen biblestudytools listed in google, but haven't looked at it.  Another a lot of people like to use is Esword.  I may not have that spelled right.  No matter, the important part is we need both God's word and prayer time, daily. I agree.

2 minutes ago, MrBear said:

I do sit in my truck doing DoorDash a lot so I just flip it open and press play, nothing wrong with that method ?

BibleGateway has audio for all the versions they have listed.  I don't use the audio feature.  Another good online bible site is Bible hub.  I don't know if bible hub has audio but like gateway they have quite a list of versions you can open up and read side by side.  Any time someone posts scripture, I use that feature to compare the scripture posted to see where their posted scripture is coming from when I see something posted that doesn't quite look right.

2 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Calling a moderator biased got me banned for a year. 

Ouch.

3 hours ago, MrBear said:

Amen to that!

when you read the Bible it’s God talking to you when you pray that’s you talking to God

combine the 2 and you have a conversation between you and the Father ?

And regularly reading will increase your faith in my case, it has.. It gives me a complete picture of Gods character 

God's word is always new and fresh, no matter how many times we read it.  I don't think there is any hard rule of where to start, some read one chapter from the Old and one from the New Testaments.  Some just open their bibles and just start reading someplace. 

Hebrews 4 : 12 (NIV)
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Discord is the name of the chatroom  worthy uses. If you click on the chat link at the top it will take you to the chatroom.

41 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

There's many offensive responses going on on forums too otherwise I wouldn't have nine people on Ignore.

That is a long list there.  Don't forget there is also the option of reporting an offensive post. 

8 hours ago, pinacled said:

There are exceptions. Especially where abstaining is concerned. I certainly wouldn't eat blood in thanks. Nor would I eat something that I'm told has been a sacrifice to an idol. There are 4 things to abstain from.

1 corinthians 10:28

 

Big difference between being told something was offered to an idol and nothing being said at all. 

B-B's family is showing hospitality in a very gracious way and to start quibbling over minor issues is rubbing salt into a wound. All this will do is bring hostility and condemnation, in other words.... start an unnecessary war between family members over food.

In fact, declining the invitation because the family is non Christian is quite insulting in and of itself. and will create an unnecessary divide. We can not share Christ with others while also being hostile and condemning. Think about how much more wonderful it would be if all of B-B's family became Christians. Don’t undo the work of God for a chunk of meat.

Just now, B-B said:

(My post was for Bawb ? but thank you for your response).

.. yes, this was the scripture I had in mind ?

Yes, I understood, but wanted to speak about what you had to say. 

11 minutes ago, B-B said:

Hi there ?

Your post caught my attention ?. Re: Muslims/Halal food/foods sacrificed to idols.

I’m a Christian. The only one (so far) in my family. My younger sister and her husband are practicing Muslims. When I go to visit them/stay with them, I eat whatever foods they have prepared. I don’t ask if it is Halal etc. I receive it with thanks. And enjoy it. My conscience does not trouble me re: it’s consumption.

 

My mum, is a practicing Sikh. The Sikh temple she attends, daily prepares food for the homeless folks, and the poor, whatever their religious beliefs. My mum helps out in the kitchens, and often takes home the leftover food (curry etc). When I visit her, this is sometimes the food which I am served. Again, I eat it and enjoy it, giving thanks. 

 

This is how the bible says we should be.

1 Corinthians 10 : 27 (NIV)

If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience.

Luke 10 : 8

“When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is offered to you.
 

The original post asks the question “Is there a Godly way to offend people?” The answer should be a resounding NO. When it comes to Christians, No congregation enjoys sermons that leave a knife (barbed remarks) sticking in the back of whoever is the target .

Its often touted as “causing others to think outside the box” because they say... “the bible uses it”. The difference is that the bible is never coarse. Our attitude and approach are not the same. We are not the writers of the bible.

Sarcasm in a ministry is NOT witty..... it is hostility. I'm not speaking of its cousin “satire”, but specifically of sarcasm. Especially on a message board where tone of voice and facial expressions are absent.

Doesn't matter if people are sensitive or not, dishing out barbs and displaying superiority of knowledge above others is NOT helpful. As a matter of fact, they leave bleeding wounds.

When Christians use sarcasm it bears passive-aggressiveness and bitter fruit in the hearer's and teaches others to be harsh and unloving themselves. A person might have a knack for dishing out sarcasm, but it has no place in the pulpit, or when sharing the gospel message.

The bible teaches us to speak to others with grace, tact, and politeness.

Colossians 4:6
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

With regard to unbelievers. It is true that as believers, we carry an offensive message; no doubt about that. But we do NOT need to carry our offensive message “offensively”. Yes, unbeliever's need to know what sin is and what it is not, but our “message” should not be all law, judgment, and condemnation before they can see and taste God's goodness and what God has in store for them.

It is important to choose our words and actions with care and compassion, well seasoned with tact and grace, so that they can see a side of Christianity they've never experienced.

3 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Woohoo, that stuff kept me awake! 

hahahahaha

23 minutes ago, Bawb said:

Well, why don't we do this as a compromise to meet in the middle? I will observe and support with gladness in my heart any of the "traditions" of Christ-Mass you can find in the scriptures. But if you can't find a scripture that supports your "traditions" you will stop doing them with gladness in your heart. Deal?

Henry Iaian touched on something that is far, far more important than sabbath keeping and Old Testament observances.  Thank you Henry for the sweet reminder of what most Consider Christmas to be about.  Even secular programs and movies in spite of the theme being about Christmas trees and santa claus, touch on the the very important necessity of dishing out hope, giving, thanksgiving, kindness,  joy, etc to others.  Even atheists consider Christmas to be a holiday about Christ. 

Henry Iain you reminded me of the following

Matthew 12:7
If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.

@Bawb

There is such a thing as religious pride.  If keeping the sabbath is a moral obligation and a  necessary for salvation and could make us right in God's sight,  why does God say the following?

Isaiah 1 : 13-14
Stop bringing meaningless offerings!  Your incense is detestable to me.  New Moons, sabbaths and convocations—    I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.  Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals  I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me;     I am weary of bearing them.

Amos 5 :21 – 23
“I hate, I despise your religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me.  22  Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,  I will not accept them.  Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,  I will have no regard for them.  23  Away with the noise of your songs!  I will not listen to the music of your harps.

A Psalm of King David

Psalm 51 : 16
You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

Why bother going to stores, when I can shop for the same items online and have them delivered.    No standing in long lines for 45 minutes waiting to get up to the cash register to purchase one or two items.  Even the so called "quick" lines are so busy it takes the same amount of time to get up to the register.  Self check out lines do not move any faster than the other two.

No driving all over town checking to see who has what I need or want. Wasting my time and gas.  Check out employees will be at the register for an entire shift, so they aren't concerned about how fast the lines go, Your (collective your, no one here specifically) time is unimportant to cashiers.  

The attitude is that they are not their to serve customers, they are there to be a warm body that desires a paycheck.  You (collective you, no one here specifically) on the other hand are there for their benefit.

On the other hand, where I live traffic has tripled in the last 3 weeks, its Christmas already.

The last time the switch was made,  I noted a lot of people reported afterwards that they went through posting withdrawals. 48 hours is just too long to go without posting. Just saying 

On 11/24/2021 at 5:51 AM, Dennis1209 said:

This is the puzzle I am trying to piece together and distinguish. Jesus said, as in the days of Noe and Lot, before His second coming, people would be marrying and given in marriage. This begs the question: Why did Jesus have to go so far back in history to cite His example and comparison?

I do think you are over analyzing this. We are not going to know more than what has already been revealed in scripture. The rest is pure speculation. What Jesus was homing in on..... is NOT that there would be a change in the way people ate and drank, or how marriage is conducted, but that these things will still be taking place when he returns.

He didn't need to go into the every little minute detail of human activity, to explain that human life (as in going about our business or daily lives) would continue till the end. The disciples understood his meaning without him elaborating ..... people will still be planting, harvesting, eating, drinking, buying, selling, trading, sinning, etc.....right up to the last day.

People were marrying and being given into marriage before the disciples were alive 2,000 years ago... And People have been getting married ever since. And given into marriage since the beginning of mankind. That did NOT change.

Jesus points out that people in Noah's day were still conducting their lives right up to the day the flood came. People were still conducting their lives when God rained down sulfur on the city of Sodom. They made no preparations for the flood or the sudden disaster of Sodom. And people will still be going about their lives right up until the last day,  just like people did in Noah's day. People will still be going about their lives good or bad, when Jesus returns.

I don't think we will fully understand all of end times prophecy, just as Daniel did not, even though he had a good glimpse of the future ahead of him. He was told to live his life so to speak, because the exact day and hour of future events were not going to be known until that day has arrived.

The passage below shows us that these things will continue right up to the hour and moment Jesus returns. And no, it does not have to say that verbatim. But we get the picture being painted.

Revelation 22:11 (CJB)

Whoever keeps acting wickedly, let him go on acting wickedly; whoever is filthy, let him go on being made filthy. “Also, whoever is righteous, let him go on doing what is righteous; and whoever is holy, let him go on being made holy.”

In closing, the point is, that the flood came unexpectedly upon all without warning of the day and hour the flood would begin. God's judgment against Sodom came upon the people unannounced and without warning. They knew nothing about it until it happened. Neither were able to prepare for the sudden disaster. The comparison being made is that Jesus will return unexpectedly and without warning catching people unaware and off guard.

There is the impression from the whole original post that Jesus is the way, but there is a catch... salvation depends upon human works.

 There is absolutely nothing we can do to earn God's favor.  Absolutely nothing.  Grace is "unmerited favor"  we can't earn or buy grace.

Galatians 5 : 16
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Why would Paul who was a Jew, and a learned pharisee to boot, say the above instead of telling us to only observe the 10 commandments.  If observing the 10 commandments; (observing the sabbath really) could earn God's favor and cleanse our hearts of the stain of sin and remove our guilt, as which is being impressed upon in the original post, then there would have been no need for the cross.

If Paul and the other Apostles taught that Torah keeping was necessary for salvation, as hinted in the original post, they would NOT have been persecuted by the Jews and religious leaders. For Torah keeping did not offend anyone. Not even the Romans.  The cross and "grace" however, was offensive in their day.