L10

Is it merely a worldly faith and Repentance at times ? Many shall say unto me in that day, Lord, Lord"...many people believe they are saved because they are basing their salvation on their profession . If our salvation is based on a profession, it is not a biblical conversion. The devils believe in Christ, and they have professed Him as the son of God , .."Thou art the Christ, the Son of God, have you come to torment us before our time".... Yes, we are saved by Grace through faith....but their is a Belief that does not lead to salvation , and there is a worldly/humanistic sorrow that masks itself as Repentance that does not lead to salvation, wouldnt you agree? Unless Faith and Repentance have come from God, no one can be saved...the problem is their is a humanistic Faith and Repentance that is not from God and every sunday we see many people told that they are saved because they have become emotionally stirred and are sorrowful for the ramifications of sin...but that is not salvation. so, if we are looking to our sincerity of our profession, it can be a false profession. If your faith is based solely in an intellectual way... could this be one of the means in which Jesus will say "Depart from me, for you never knew me" ?

Amen~! And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deuteronomy 6:5 Again I Say Amen~! And Amen~! And Amen~! Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Psalms 103:1 Glory~! Glory~! Glory To The KING OF KINGS~! I Love You Jesus I Love You Joe, I always love your prayers, your following, and kindness. I am not trying to make a discernment, and certainly not going to be rude, but is there a reason that you quote a person, and then just have your pre established content shared? I am just making sure you are do the posting on here, and not someone else that may have access to your computer. I guess you could have an injury that prevents typing as well, but I know things such as Dragon work pretty well. Just making sure you are fine. Share something about your personal feelings on the entrace to Heaven if you are ok. Thanks my friend.

One reason so many are deceived is because the devil can and does mimic feelings. Actualy Mike, the devil is very well adapt at using the truth. He stuffs a lie in the middle of it. People chew on it that type of thing all the time. Why do people feeling so good need to even know about victory? It's all good, right? Gospel light...with artificial sweetener What we need to hear is all the truth all the time. Mr. Smiley has denied what the word actually states more than once to often. No worries. You are right...Joel will not be putting anyone in hell...however, he is not keeping them out either. Mike, how do you go from Joel to Copeland and everything in between? I'll give you A+ for enthusiasm, but -C for some of the things you seem to agree with including the gods thing and the no Trinity thing. Anyway, remarkably off topic I would only insert that both Copeland and Osteen are WOF (Word of Faith), Prosperity, Name it claim it speakers. Do they help people with money or psychology? Probably, but not too much with that Christian walk. Seems the greatest thing to understand from both of them is that Rich is good with Jesus, and wanted. Seems that they both also help very little with a person that is in true bondage. There are so many people that are under a curse of sorts, and all the positive thinking, prayer oils,,, they are not going to help in the capacity as suggested. Never are we to believe that giving to a particular ministry is going to bring us wealth or happiness. Ok, I got ranting, so please don't rate my content either. Funny thing~ I believe that gifts exist today. I just don't buy the hyperbole that many are selling. FYI~ A guy on TBN was selling a series of recording on how to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Was there not a sever admonishing to a former sorcerer for trying to do the same thing? There was a heavy price he paid for that. Just saying, and yet there are a few decent people on that Channel. Just so embarrassed to instruct some of my newly Christian friends to watch it. UGH

Good idea, what are evil Spirits? Are they all in chains? Are some oppressing Christians? Do they have an interest in keeping the unsaved saved? Can they keep the unsaved from being saved if God decrees for them to be saved? Have they studied humans for a great many years? Lastly, most difficult~ Are the fallen angels for certain? Or are they part of the Giant population issue.. you know what I mean????

Hi L10 Don't get me started on Joseph Prince, but apart from that, you seem to have better discernment than he does. As the Bible explicitly tells us to test the spirits, that would actually knock Mr Princes assertion that good feelings are an indication of the presence of God right out of the water Mr. Prince needs to test that spirit from which he got that idea. It is NOT scriptural and yes, the devil can certainly 'give' one good feelings in order to lead them astray. Good feelings do not go along with good judgement. We may sometimes have to make a decision based on the Bible alone (well preferably all of the time) but that does not always make us feel good. Sometimes, we may actually feel pretty bad. Someone once explained it like this, Feelings are not bad in and of themselves. They were given to us by God. They just don't get to run the show...or the train That was funny. Thanks, but I am working hard to understand. I try not to insert my foot in my mouth though... try not to. LOL

I think this was a good post as a person discerning, but when I apply a humble look at things, there is a conundrum of sorts. It is not fully that easy to tell when it is our understanding, and when it is God's. Though we know from Is 55:8 " My ways are not your ways, and your thoughts are not mine" ~ being God. So, why is it strictly divided between awesome people on the gifts of the spirit? Why huge division on the Calvin/ Arminian debate, that seems to grow worse. Now emergent thinking as well. I do not believe it is purely humans pushing away the Holy Spirit, or it would not be so evenly divided on the C/A thing. It also would not have so many scriptures that show clarity for both sides. So, I think your post was excellent for so many things in our walk, 99.9% of them. Still some answers are not going to be agreed upon by the most humble and intelligent Christian scholars. I have noted this in volume after volume. Thanks for the good post though.

A simple question that has probably been thrown around Protestant circles for a few hundred years. Why do we have so many varying theological differences, and some that are hugely divisive? Why imparticular do we have such a huge difference in Arminian and Calvinist believers? Would the Holy Spirit not want us to know with clarity what is absolute? Or, is it that God does know all, who will be saved, if grace is resistible...., but He needs for us to drop our own pride. It is almost like liking opposing teams in a super bowl, and the person is not going to change their mind. I have participated in many discussions that were sorta controversial, and shared scriptures, early manuscript translations, and many other tools to get to come conclusions. Some people come to a conclusion for Occum's razor (the least amount of discussion point points to a clearer one) and then they stick by that. Those people are probably fine, but they refuse to look deeper into what God may want them to look into. Why does Nomran Geisler see 2 points to Calvinism, while Michael Horton or Charles Stanley see 5 points? Why is Stephen Ashby sharing a reformed Arminian view that share penal substitution, which is in arms with Wesley followers? Why do some people insist that the tribulation will not occur until all Christians are raptured, and others share mid Trib, post trib? Would the Great Comforter not find it a great help to clear up these messes, and to bring about a dropping of our spiritual pride; simply to help us to understand some of these important truths? If you don't believe they are important, you are free to share that. Please, discern that I fully Believe the Holy Spirit dwells within me, and give me conviction, understanding, and I am not putting Him down one bit. I am asking a question that should challenge our minds though, and maybe even our very sin of pride. God Bless, and be gentle if you can

At the risk of getting said discussion cranked up again, I believe it came from too many TV programs and not enough scripture Why do I think that? The main reason would be that scripture does not ever describe what they look like let alone an ability to...ahem...cough...gag...shapeshift However, those who confirm this opinion will no doubt staunchly defend it. Well there is pretty clear argument that satan is even able to create to a degree, not to create actual life, but create incredible disgusting things. Look for example at the snakes that Pharoh was able to have thrown down from staffs. He is simply a counterfeiter, a wannabe, and yet He has a very seemingly human attention. One could say that He is very much of the ways of the world, and He knows how to catch the fancy of nearly anyone that seeks this. I believe that satan and his legions have witnessed mans traits and ways for a great many years, and He knows how to mimick, deceive, and even send a spirit that we have invited, to our actual being. Will it Possess? I do not believe, but I do believe the ramifications can be horrible without taking the full armor, fully repent, and continue to be aware. Scripture is clear that once He has been rebuked or removed, he waits for the house (body) to be swept clean and prepared for even more of his lower demons, and many of them. Don't play around friends, it is out there, and they are out there. Watch Joel Osteen all you want, and believe that every happy feeling is of God, but Satan will, and does try to pretend to be God. Test the spirits, and the Bible tells you how.

I do appreciate the help, and now that I am home I can get to my Greek interlinear study as well. It is just amazing that many Evangelists take that very verse and tell their flock that it pertains to life on this very earth,,, today. It is basically a new Gospel of sorts being taught, and I get a sick feeling in my gut when I hear it. Not that I trust my gut, but I do trust scripture.

Briefly to touch a subject that I have noted emergent Churches, as well as several Bible translations drifting towards. Matthew 7:13.. shares how the gate is narrow for entering life, and yet this is after it shares that the path is wide that leads to hell (destruction~ in most new translations). Seeing some Evangelists, such as Joseph Prince recently calling out the people that ever said this was meaning anything about few people being in Heaven was very interesting. He also went on to say that whenever you have a good feeling in you.. "that is God". Well, we know that God shares good, but so does the imposter, right? We know that God also shares some things that are not good. To the point... ! Does anyone know the greek translation of this passage, and does it imply to heaven and hell, or as Prince and many others are now saying; to life today? I have spent my whole life with the understanding that even the explanation of the parable of the sower shows why so many will simply not make it to Heaven, so many distractions, as Jesus shares very capably. What to you all think??

I recall some important scriptural significance in the book of James. James 1:5 shares much about how we are to pray, and how to believe fully that God will hear our prayers. Yes, so very true, as it goes on to share that a person that prays without faith is lost like a tide. I sigh for the Christians that pray with half of their heart, half of their desire to reach out to God. I believe that this is part of a demonstration of our faith being strong. Seek the will of God, and pray with all your might. You better also believe that God is listening to those prayers of yours, as He loves you. The answer is not always "yes", but we praise Him the same. My faith is strong enough to die for Him. Yes I can say that, and I have days of weakness when I wonder if I would cower for a moment like Peter's denial. I believe that our witness, our 24/7 walk, and our desire to know God's word and will greater is the most significant part of our Strength in faith. Just my meager answer, but also sharing a verse that has probably not been ellaborrated upon. Blessings to you all.....

Well, it just passed recently, so thought I would ask this now. Before the obvious question, please allow me to share that many decent Christians dress up their kids, and they partake in an activity that does not seem to glorify the darker side of Halloween. Now that I have coerced the discussion slightly, feel free to share your personal beliefs of celebrating Halloween. Do you partake in the Holiday in any manner? Do you partake only in the benign costumes, and even share Bible tracts? Do you participate fully in Halloween, and see no problem with that? Any other thoughts? Is it All Saints day? Is it Reformation Day, being 495 years to the hilt since Luther nailed the 95 theses upon the castle door? What do you think, as this is pretty important stuff. one FACT, it is highly celebrated by witches, and it is their most powerful date of the year.... hmmm. YOUR THOUGHTS??

Dani, I read and see the pain. In my own life I have some very deep pain, and I feel that a great percentage is not my direct fault. I have figured that I need to keep this stuff on the terms with Jesus. I have not been opening up the Bible as much as I used to in a situation that would merit some good reflection; and thus it becomes "MY" opinion. Yes, they need your prayers, and probably the added prayers in agreement. I am in agreement that the mindset of Jesus Christ become part of these estranged and struggling people. Yes, I also believe there is a time to release thy self, and that is certainly an ok thing. You do need a break, but maybe not the break that some non christian friends would share with ya. I am glad that you seem to be keeping focus, even with these horrible circumstances. I pray that you will be a difference maker, via prayer or example; or both. Blessings to you.

Brother, I think you have gotten to know the lowest of the low in my life now. I am so sorry !! God Bless you, always

Thanks so much, that really touched my heart. God has brought me to a point of forgiveness today, which is better than yesterday's low. So now I forgive the people that I allowed to hurt me. Again, thanks

Maybe I need some Good Christian friends in the area. I just dunno; but it does really hurt. Let me whine for one moment please: My sister tells me to get rid of any of my friends that have problems, for they are not really living for God. ~ and she only has one friend ! My better friends are sorta burnt out from my difficulties with the divorce. My female friends were seeming wonderful, when suddenly my most confided one saw a chance for me to be moving into her house~~~ the day my divorce was final. I really struggle to see the true Christian walk in her. One of my friends is sorta new in Christ, and would rather ask me for an answer than looking in the Bible. Ok, I do not mind being looked up to for scripture, but I would like the book to be opened. Yeah, will open it up there. My long time buddie is becoming involved in alternative lifestyles, and it is even bringing another friend into it. So, maybe my sister is making some sense, but I do not want to abandon all my friends that are less than perfect. Her life is not perfect, but she would share that she is not sinning though.... a little odd. I do have some decent friends, and some decent Christian friends. They are just at an alltime low. i have way too much to give, to share, to be consoled in. I don't want to waste time, but I also won't just jump to people and use them. Help, while I have my sanity and health. Thanks <><

Just a bit of a down time for me, but not necessarily because of the Church. Sure, my sermon joys, Christian music, subscription, Bible reading... these all keep me lifted as much as possible. I do have to admit that I have a few significant stingers that the most recent Churches have given me. The last Church was beginning to become sorta comfortable when a few dogmatic actions sorta made me uncomfortable. There would start to be a prayer, and then the congregation would begin to all pray aloud their very own prayer. A few other things really nerved a person that was there for more important things. So, my wife and I sought counseling there as well. Nothing ever really went well with that either, as I would attend to things, yet she would not. Well, unless she was told to divorce me. So the bitter pill goes with the impending divorce, and the scriptures that allegedly were shared to me to have a right to marry again,,, questionable. Before this I went to a Church that was a little overly charismatic, and the testimonies were at times stretched to a point of fabrication. I know this because the Pastor claimed a word of knowledge about my wife at the time, , claiming her to be healed. Ok, this was true, but because we had told him about this already before the sevice. So, perhaps examples are enough already. I really need encouragement, edification, rebuke... but it is just too difficult to press for discomfort. Yes, I sorta feel that I will already be uncomfortable going to my very next Church alone. Life has been difficult enough recently, and working and keeping healthy have been so incremental. Before I have a pronounced discernment that shares that this is something I can overcome easily, please do understand that I truly love the Lord, His people, and His assembly so much. I am not made comfortable with tons and tons of singing, even though I like to sing. I need a sermon with meat. I need more than that also. Anyone ever felt a discomfort like any of this? Consider I am totally on my own now, and working very late hours. I have had some amazing friends at my late night work, but they have either quit, or become busy on other shifts now. I do not question my faith in Jesus Christ one bit right now. I do question my next step in my walk with him. My wife is gone, friends are going thru trials, and my only family is very (hermit) isolated. I rebuke satan from using any of my little whinings for his advantage. I strive to seek God's glory and joy. I really do.

I will have to check out this youtube series as well, and suppose an automatic search will bring up what a few of you have been speaking of. It appears I won't get the book finished, as my reading discipline is slightly off that subject at the moment. Thanks for the contributions.

Read a few discussions from somewhat conservative Christian panels, and they were even discussing how building the freedom tower is just one more thing that ushers America into the place of where the Israelites once were. Well, I have "the Harbinger" waiting on me at the library, and I think I will give it a read. Not too into the fictionish prophecy, but hear that this has some good reviews. What do you folks think, if you read it? Is it hokey? Is it an apostate's friend, as one friend of mine called it; and He won't even read it. Give me your take, and go any angle you desire. Appreciate the feedback before I take a thorough look.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Daubenmire/dave266.htm Wow, have not kept up with coach Dave D in a while.... but he coached at the same little school my dad went to. I did not click on to the link as the computer was going silly, so may wait a while. Is there a fragment you can paste? Thanks, and Blessings

Hey my friend, wanted to thank you for the encouragement that appears to have been refined by fire. It does help to know that we are not alone in messed up times, as sometimes we see a facebook friend that just sails the seas every day doing deep sea fishing, and having no care in the world. I remember days of excess, wow did I live them. Perhaps that gives me the perspective of this very dark time that I persevere thru. I know that the Amsterdams will try to tempt me, but I hope to have a ready defense going. I will keep that bible on my actual bed beside me, and will read it tonight, along with a few other guides to help me to get out of this pit. I need to let go of some toxic relationships as well. I sorta feel like the big old dog that does not want to drop the old torn up toy the owner gave to him years ago; won't drop it for the new and awesome one. Yeah, we get comfortable with a friend or two along the way, but at a point they seem to also shove ya the wrong way, particularly if is a female friend that knows the boundaries. The discernment comes for me to at least test this situation much more, for it has produced temptation in past, yet has also produced some very significant time when I felt I was near my demise. Before my most conservative friends already assume me to be in reproach, my friend was seeking to know the Lord Greater, said all the right things. Sure, I knew she would one day perhaps try to ween in for a relationship deeper, and I was ready. She recently failed a second time though, and I believe she has probably removed herself after my rebuke. Ok, had to bring that up just because it was on my heart as well. She has been a good friend for a great many years, and she loves the Lord. I believe she could be much more serious about the Lord, and perhaps lean away from the tavern style faith. So, perhaps toxic now, perhaps always will be. I will listen to the Lord, and will take kind advice from discerning friends. I won't disown every Christian friend because they are female though, just can't quite do that. There may be a time when the Lord makes things very clear to me on this, and all these things. Appreciate your time in this, your prayers, and for those of you that do not see a question in a conundrum:::: What do you do when you have so little to stand on, so little strength, and yet stood on that platform and prayed along with it for so very long?

Wow, my heart is touched by every post, even the first one. I know that confusion is amidst, and I also know that perhaps the very strongest attempt to ask my wife for that attempt of sabath time would be possible, but trust me when I say that this would only be on God's time. Too many things are about money, follow through, sell the house.... and my wife's new ability to move on finally. A few posts were especially touching because I could feel the sympathy and empathy both, and yet sense the godly direction. Sure, this stuff happens all the time, and people have their support groups, family, kids... I guess I am glad I at least have the friends. I did spend some time in very deep prayer two nights ago, and feel that a time may come when things become more easy to discern. Maybe I will be able to socialize with good people, work a better job, find a good Church that has hours that will give me a chance. I pray for all this, and not just for selfish gain. I have spent so much time helping others, and listening to things that pained others. Another discussion site does not really get my time now, but I'm sure they would not even know who I am now. They would probably all be very blown away about the divorce, but I believe this happens in about 1/4 of these situations. So, know that I lift you all up in prayer as well at this time, for your needs of growth, strength, edification, encouragement, discernment; and to be a great steward of our loving savior. I think I will enjoy one of my rare late nights off work, and when it is actually nearly 50 degrees in Ohio. Been sick, but feel good enough to enjoy an inline skate in my new area. May God watch over me, and keep my light working. Thanks tons to you all, and to my new friend; thanks !!

Born again 18 years ago, love Jesus number one everyday. Have had a wonderful life, marriage, witnessed miracles, had decent work, been humble; have lifelong friends. During this time I also was never totally serious about high paying positions at work, and found my time with the Lord, recreation, family.. to be valuable. Since I have had my wife turn a spiritual 180, been attacked by demons in her admittance, but has since claimed victory. She has also claimed divorce with no opportunity for reconciliation. She sites that my lack of serious work ethic places me as a person that has lost their Christian faith. I will agree that I have worked less than 40 hour weeks many times, but I do work, and now way in excess. I work my hands at a fairly modest job stocking on 3rd shift. I place many hours in a week, and have done so for the last 7 months. My wife and I sought counseling about 8 months ago, and since she has always been the love of my life, given by Christ, and nearly taken by him via illness; I remain steadfast. Apathy and depression set in my life while I was trying to listen to God's plan for my career. I am in upper 40's, yet very active. I suppose my wife once sought me out for she said I was also easy on the eyes, though I try to mention this with candor. What guy this age has the flare,,, everyone, even in the Churches are looking for pizzazz and gusto. Welll, I have sorta lost my gusto. I stick my head out to help my friends in their lowest of times. I have had a couple help out along the way, but this has mainly been between me and Jesus. I have kept busy, keep some hope alive. I live in a lesser than nice neighborhood, have an aging car, but I have the things I need. I love music, so I also surround myself with the music that touches my heart the most. Ok, people just don't like this particular guy as much while they see me sorta down, but I also can't just pop out of it. My wife always promised to support me thru my Panic Disorder issues, and I sorta see a lack of much patience in her now. I suppose I have done well with the illness, but I am reminded to take care of it very well. Fear will not run me, but I also still feel so displaced. Everything has been one step off. We won an out of court settlement, but it was not as much as my wife had hoped, so she saw 2012 as being a year that we would run out of excesses. She has grown as a Christian in some ways over the years, but also slipped heavily in the covetting and Bible exegetics department. I will be cautious in my discerment, for the Lord has obviously let this happen to a loving Christian couple. I became the female in the nurturing and immersing our little problems with Christian author helps. She was already one step ahead, and used counseling to find a squeak of an ok for divorce. She stole my inheritance to try to force me out of my house, and yet I have only one living family member, and she is disabled and in a horrible mental state as well. Cursed???? You tell me. I always have beat to a different drum, but I am very conventional in my understanding in love of what Jesus has done for us. I know that it rains on the faithful as well, and I even work hard at keeping myself immersed in scripture that I need to relearn, as welll as scripture that has me covered. So, I have secular friends, lost total interest in the Church we went to, and am in new location. I have some support friends that are like family to me, but there are some dark days. I know, I should tough it up and just work hard. Find a Church soon anyways, even though some of my Christian friends are also so amazing. I would be a serious case for a Christian Psychiatrist, for there is positive self talk in 95% of my adult days. been tough recently, but I think I may get back one day. I almost feel that I do not deserve joy, nor will I understand a true love at this point. My job has me with odd hours, and confidence is sorta down for normalcy thoughts on that. I still pray for my wife, and that is part of a confusing thing as well. I don't know what God has in store, but it is very clear that barring yet another miracle she is only weeks away from having this divorce final. You know what? I am not sure I can trust to grow old with her at this point. The pain is forgiveable, but I learned a painful lesson. I sat at her bedside, made critical decisoions over a death sentence of her leukemia, but I felt the calling to remain. It was no fun life, but it was all I knew about love, true love. Sure, that has worn itself out by now, coz I may have taken some recent time to land a high management position. I don't exactly have a great resume, but I do have commmunication skills with people, and in particular in life coaching etc. Coaching and helping. Now, you guessed it... who can help a person that has almost believed that no person is able to put pieces together. I admit, I only recieve some compliments on how well I have handled things, but rarely one tip of advice or help. Thanks friends, and understand I bear the stench of my life as well as the things that I may still have going for me. HELP

Yes, Tim is perhaps one of the most consistent and appealing Christian ambassadors. Really too bad that He would not one day be able to be president, as the man is a leader that God has Blessed. I see many other wonderful exemplery Christians in Football and Basketball in particular. Sorta strange that Hockey has one or two at best, and baseball is not super high up there either. It seems to be somewhat of a cultural coaching aspect in Collegiate Football in particular. There may be a lot of kids messing up in the Universities as athletes, but I also see the the great many that have at least been given a better chance. They have heard the message of the Gospel, and even though we know Tim Tebow is not perfect,,, him and many other athletes are making strides. Minor sports also seem to take a hit. Volleyball is quite liberal, and I know this from experience, also sorta lopsided in a few other smaller college sport events. Just an observation.

I sincerely am only puzzled by a few things in the Holy Bible. Sure a few consistency issues on eyewitness events, but those are fairly simple to conclude as different vantage points etc. But, How am I to answer a young person that asks me How our perfect God created all things, and His angels were also created by him; now to reference that I am being asked how Lucifer could even become filled with pride, thus rooting evil? I think about this particular question and really don't have a ready reply. I have withstood the ready replies for why horrible things happen to wonderful Christians, and why we even have a loving God that can allow for so much suffering. Many have issue with those tough subjects. I also have to dig deeply, but can resolve those. So, How could Lucifer decide that He was going to want to be God? God had to have knowledge that this was going to happen, and could have had an immediate antedote. EVen one step ahead of that, He could have given each Angel the impossible nature to rebel, which you would almost conceive would be God's desire. Anyone have scriptural exegetics to this? Even some good theological reasoning would be helpful. Appreciate it. Since it has puzzled another, it has also created that in myself.