kroschild

Um...God wrote both Covenants, right...so are you implying that there was something wrong with His first one? Different does not necessarily mean better. KC

Ooh! ooh! I have a little theory on this one--or is it the Bible? Any time someone "prophesies" that Christ will return on XYZ day, I mark that day on my calendar as a day he cannot possibly return!

Oh, and on the "works or not" argument---does the word semantics mean anything to you? KC

Um...agnostics claim that there is no way for them to make a decision about God based on the current evidence. You cannot be an "agnostic christian". The two terms contradict one another. Literal translations are not always the best way to define something--connotation is as important, if not more. On the different religions: Using your counter-argument that it seems that Wiccans would possibly have the closest chance. They believe that all religions use different names for the same diety, and that the diety (dieties, techincally--kind of a yin and yang thing--one male, one female but both the same) names they call their god by determines which aspect of their deity they are addressing (ie if they call upon their deity at one time by the name "Aphrodite", then they are addressing the female, love-centered side of the deity. If they call upon their deity at another time by the name "Mars", then they are calling upon a male, retribution-centered side of the deity.) Essentially, Wiccans believe that all gods are different names for the same deity--they embrace all gods. The only problem with this, is that if they are wrong, and there are true gods and false gods, embracing all of them is a moot point. Just thought I'd start us off with one. KC

*wipes away the tears* Oh wow...what an expression---but can I use it on my bald dad?

Just wanted to say how I love that "apologetics" refuses to apologize! LOL KC

Where did the concept of limiting god-beliefs to "modern" beliefs come from? Are you discounting older beliefs just because they aren't modern? Do you think modernity equates with potential truth? Regards, UndecidedFrog <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ok...by your definition--they wouldn't. But what is an agnostic then? Because they ARE different. As to your reply What??? I clearly said I have studied ancient religions....I first told you Then I clarified "pagan religion" as I have studied these older religions! I think you misunderstood me. KC

I love this! Addition to Paul: sometimes forgets who he has baptized and is constantly in trouble with the authorities!

Hehe--it is confusing, I guess--we got here because WorkInProgress and I both believe women are not to teach, and now we are debating HOW submissive we are to be! LOL--I love the way these forums go all over a topic! KC

Amen! God CAN forgive you for sins you commit--otherwise, what would be the point?

No one is saying that there is more than one Spirit--we are saying that he did not LIVE IN people until after Jesus resurrection. Just wanted to clarify what we meant I think I have seen a woman actually possessed by a demon--but she wasn't a Christian at the time. And no one was claiming that she was possessed, it just appeared to us present that she might have been. The problem with knowing if someone is actually possessed by a demon is those pesky things' tendency to be invisible to the naked eye! Seriously though, I see no evidence that people cannot be possessed today. I also see no evidence that Christians cannot refuse the Spirit and accept a demon into themselves. I just refuse, based on scripture, to beleive that a Christian, indwelt by the Spirit, could be possessed. And since I know someone will ask: I do not believe that both can occur, because then where would the protection of the Spirit be?! I think that a Christian must have a heart in a state where a demon is welcomed in--whether or not they say "I want a demon", their life and heart can be accepting to one. In the cases of non-voluntary possession in the Bible, the people possessed were not Christians. Even IF you claim that Ananias and Sapphira were "possessed" it is clear that THEY themselves welcomed the demon--they are asked why THEY have lied to the Spirit! Seeking Truth, KrosChild <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Let me make sure Im understanding what you said..... There are times when we as Christians dont have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. Is that right? I disagree with that statement KrosChild. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ooh, that wasn't clear was it? Sorry--it was written in haste. What I meant was, a Christian having the Spirit dwelling in them, in power cannot be possessed. As in, there can be no involuntary possession. The scripture that Dad Ernie pointed out sums it up well: Matt. 12

Frog, According to the dictionary: Atheist: One who denies the existence of God or gods. Agnostic: One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism. An agnostic is the one who fits your analogy! A true atheist does not "buy nothing"--they claim that there is NO God, and prescribe to some other theory of existence--otherwise they are merely denying religion based on their desire to deny religion, I would assume that they have some other theory. Agnostics sit back and "buy nothing". I tried to explain this before, but perhaps the dictionary can define where I cannot? I know it is not that clean-cut. My Christian science teacher personally believes in some "atheist" beliefs, and does not think they go against Christianity. I was generalizing for the sake of space Also, how are pagan religions and Greek and Roman mythologies modern? The definition of "pagan" religions I was using was ancient religions. Those practiced by the Mesopotamians, Egyptians, etc. Eagerly awaiting the next phase in our discussion of minds, KrosChild PS This is a great discussion!

They (the angels) would be watching because in the time of the Bible, shaved or cut hair signified a prostitute--hence the reason a distinction is made between long hair as "good" and short hair as "bad". 1 Cor 11--an footnote indicating an alternate translation of the Greek: 5 And every woman who prays or prophesies with no covering on her head dishonors her head

No one is saying that there is more than one Spirit--we are saying that he did not LIVE IN people until after Jesus resurrection. Just wanted to clarify what we meant I think I have seen a woman actually possessed by a demon--but she wasn't a Christian at the time. And no one was claiming that she was possessed, it just appeared to us present that she might have been. The problem with knowing if someone is actually possessed by a demon is those pesky things' tendency to be invisible to the naked eye! Seriously though, I see no evidence that people cannot be possessed today. I also see no evidence that Christians cannot refuse the Spirit and accept a demon into themselves. I just refuse, based on scripture, to beleive that a Christian, indwelt by the Spirit, could be possessed. And since I know someone will ask: I do not believe that both can occur, because then where would the protection of the Spirit be?! I think that a Christian must have a heart in a state where a demon is welcomed in--whether or not they say "I want a demon", their life and heart can be accepting to one. In the cases of non-voluntary possession in the Bible, the people possessed were not Christians. Even IF you claim that Ananias and Sapphira were "possessed" it is clear that THEY themselves welcomed the demon--they are asked why THEY have lied to the Spirit! Seeking Truth, KrosChild

Ok, some. I actually read your comments in the other board about Pascall's argument in the other forum. Which is why I didn't ask you about your concern on this point. My point was more directed at my opening sentence about faith--that faith is something even atheists have to have--because evolution, big bang theory, etc are as difficult to prove as Christianity. Wasn't trying to convince you that Christianity should be believed in order to avoid hell, should it exist. Actually, my classes were partially online--I may be able to get my teachers to re-activate the links to the articles we had to read--some of which were pro-evolution, by the way. It is difficult to establish a base and grow on it (takes too long for posts) over messaging. After I get the links (if I can) then we could PM after you already know the base I am coming from. And we could of course argue the base! LOL Although I didn't mean to open this discussion, I won't ignore your questions! 1. I have not (obviously) studied all of these religions (containing the 10,000 gods you mention), but I do have a basic grounding in the beliefs of Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, Greek and Roman mythology, Wiccan, a handful of Far Eastern religions (Buddaism, Confuscious, etc), and several pagan religions (other than Wiccan). Based on my studies, I find Christianity to be the closest as evidenced by science and my own obsesrvations. Plus, many of these teach that if you merely live a good life you are saved, or if you believe in a Creator you are saved...so even if one of these is correct, my percentage of "ending up in the same place" goes down considerably. 2. Um, no--I don't believe God can be fooled by this type of reasoning. Which is why I would never suggest someone believe based on an attempt to obtain a "get out of jail free card." Looking forward to your reply, KrosChild