2404

If you have an hour and a box of tissue you may enjoy this story.

If the mark of the beast is a spiritual mark then it could not be seen with the natural eye. There would be absolutely no way it could be detected. There would be no machine or any human being that could see or detect it. It would be literally impossible in the flesh to make a distinction between those who decided to take the mark from those who refuse to take the mark in their right hand or forehead. How would it be determined in the natural who could and couldn't buy or sell goods in the market place if it's a spiritual mark?..........Another thought is if it is a spiritual mark then the mark would be given by the spirit. That thought then sparks a few questions. Does the "spirit" of the beast go forth and mark those in the earth who want the mark? or Does the beast "himself" force his mark on the prople in the earth? And if you refuse to take the mark then you will not be able to buy or sell goods in the market place. just curious

Mat. 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Enter a great religious system/person that has the solution to end the socio religious woes and has a means to resolve the global economic crisis. Surely this is the answer in a desperate situation and the idea of potentially having peace and harmony finally presiding on earth, it must be a God sent.

The technology is in place to have this globally administered so what else could we ask for?

To pledge the allegiance as required and consent to the governance of those who will rule over us and thereby minister to our spiritual and natural needs we by default take on the mark of the beast.

Doesn’t it sound reasonable?

God is life, perfect. Life and death (corruption) cannot dwell together, just as light and darkness can not coexist.

We get sick and die because we are in a fallen condition, corruptible flesh.

In the case where things happen such as leprosy God just has to withdraw his hand slightly, leprosy is from an evil spirit.

They rely on themselves and eachother for progress so they are in charge of development.

Christians are developed by God so our part is self refection and since we haven't arrived yet there is always room for improvement.

Does Paul sum it up when he says 'death where is your sting'?

As I understand it.

God being omniscient and omnipotent nothing is out of God's control, including Satan's behavior.

Satan prowls within his guidelines but once the judgement takes place and the verdict is delivered then his destiny will be fulfilled as described in scripture.

I had written a few lines, a little conjecture on Satan's fall that might stir the imagination.

Imagine Lucifer before his fall, a mighty being full of wisdom and beauty.

As his mind probes the vastness of God’s creation he comes upon an awe striking phenomena, an inspiring avenue in the folds of creation. He discovers that there are laws of cause and effect and coupled close to that is the illuminant of reasoning, begging for exploitation.

The realization that this avenue could be endless and that in it he could exercise his full potential he decides that this is just what a person of his stature ought to have.

Transgression is not the objective ‘but look what he could become’.

Opening the door just slightly to take a peek he sees that indeed he must have this.

As he is drawn in, the realization strikes that in this position he must now lay hold of power for this is a one way track with no way back.

As the implications and consequences of his actions become manifest so his countenance falls and the resulting demonic demeanour rises in its stead.

In this irreconcilable doomed condition he hates the omniscient, omnipotent power that he stands against and in his unquenchable fury he is determined to destroy as much as he is able for he knows that his days are numbered.

God bless

I like the thought 'the eye has not see nor the mind conceived what God has laid up for them that love Him'

The thought of unfolding glories that eternity can not exhaust - too much for me... :-)

I believe its a literally a mark for in order to be identify youd need to be able to see it just my two cents LOL

These are some headlines from Worthy Features.

Sudan uses Shari'a against its own Christians

'Burma Troops Kill, Rape Christian Civilians; Churches Burned'

Pakistan Muslims Torch 100 Christian Homes; Dozens Injured

Christian Persecution Rising in China

How are these people identified as christians?

Good Point

LK.21:12 “But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake.”

Nowhere in the commission does it stress the need for an ID tag.

St.John.10:3-5 “To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.”

This lack of allegiance is enough for a mark, or vice versa.

My take is that the mark has to be more than a credit card or bar code, because that does not explain why such marks you for damnation.

Could it be the flip side? Because by default we are all lost.

Taking on the mark (be it with or without a physical manifestation) would seal the person off from receiving Christ's atonement.

When the Pharisees and Sadducee observed Jesus Christ doing works they called it of the devil. Jesus said he could forgive them for that but when the Holy Ghost came and did the same things and they called that the works of the devil they would be permanently sealed off - 'blasphemy of the Holy Ghost' - the unforgivable sin.

Whether a literal mark is placed on the forehead or hand would really be inconsequential, the crux of the matter is what stands behind it.

The antiChrist spirit has existed from the beginning, is now and is coming to temporal power. Scripture say that the Holy Spirit is to lead the church but due to our fallen nature we like to put our hands on the wheel. This has been an issue throughout man’s history. God does a little work among man and straight away someone will pick up the banner and try to lead a procession, put a name to it and lay down some rules as to how we can be a part of this 'Godly move'.

Now that we are a global community and the mechanics are available this man driven machine will have the ability to rule uncontested.

To stand in allegiance to and labour therein is taking the mark in the mind and on the hand.

Read some posts on taking a mark.

Is there support in the community for this - or did I not read far enough?

We already have 172 threads on the rapture already, so we really don't need another. If this thread is to discuss what some may see needs done before He returns, that is fine, but let's not get into another debate on the when this will happen ...

I respect your point.

Let me conclude with one response to bro. Paul, and not in regard to a time frame.

Okay...then we all must remain ready at all times of that there can be no doubt....be one of the five wise virgins not one of the five unwise (unsaved church attendees who believe but are not saved)...

Brother Paul

Hello bro Paul.

Not just to differ with you but allow me to state my understanding of the parable.

They were all virgins.

To go in with the bridegroom (marriage supper 'first resurrection') they had to have the oil, 'sealed until the day of your redemption'.

The five foolish, stood for Christ and Christ will stand for them at the judgement.

Those in the first resurrection will judge 'men and angels' and will not come into the judgement.

So why does He say to them "I never knew you" and then shuts the door?

Brother Paul

Why is being a good person not enough to get you to Heaven?

http://www.gotquesti...ood-person.html

If we could earn one speck of merit toward our salvation Christ died in vain.

Compare the Syrophenician woman of Mk.7:26 or the woman of Samaria St.John 4:7 with the Pharisees & Saducees which many of them probably lived spotless lives and Jesus told them that they were of their father the devil.

Jesus said Lk.18:19 "...Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."

We already have 172 threads on the rapture already, so we really don't need another. If this thread is to discuss what some may see needs done before He returns, that is fine, but let's not get into another debate on the when this will happen ...

I respect your point.

Let me conclude with one response to bro. Paul, and not in regard to a time frame.

Okay...then we all must remain ready at all times of that there can be no doubt....be one of the five wise virgins not one of the five unwise (unsaved church attendees who believe but are not saved)...

Brother Paul

Hello bro Paul.

Not just to differ with you but allow me to state my understanding of the parable.

They were all virgins.

To go in with the bridegroom (marriage supper 'first resurrection') they had to have the oil, 'sealed until the day of your redemption'.

The five foolish, stood for Christ and Christ will stand for them at the judgement.

Those in the first resurrection will judge 'men and angels' and will not come into the judgement.

So why does He say to them "I never knew you" and then shuts the door?

Brother Paul

As I understand it, to be know of God is to have been in Him before the foundation of the world, redeemed.

The foolish virgins lived the Christian life but did not 'have' the token (Holy Spirit).

There is such a thing as a true anointing on the spirit realm and still be in a lost condition. An example can be Balaam.

Because the Bridegroom did not know them they were not allowed into the marriage supper but will have to come into the judgement and there stand trial, as noted above. This is also where a 'ministered' glass of water will not go unrewarded. Those who are judging with the bridegroom have surpassed such things.

The foolish virgins will receive eternal life dependent on their stand.

God's 144,000 Jewish saints.

We were not created with cloths, and they were perfect not needing any modification.

And we still do not become sexually aware by eating apples.

What makes think they werent aware of sex?

Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."

These verses are right after woman was made and Adam is saying a man shall cleave unto his wife. Cleaving is sex, coitus, copulation, joining, marrying, fusing, uniting, etc.

This takes place before the fruit is eaten so Adam is aware of sex and sexuality before the fall.

'aware of sex' - They were perfect there was nothing lacking.

We are born in sin and shaped in iniquity. We come by the permissive way, sexual desire.

Jesus Christ our redeemer came the perfect way as a Spoken Word.

The fall was permitted to allow for the expression of attributes such as saviour, healer... just as creation is an expression.

We were not created with cloths, and they were perfect not needing any modification.

And we still do not become sexually aware by eating apples.

We already have 172 threads on the rapture already, so we really don't need another. If this thread is to discuss what some may see needs done before He returns, that is fine, but let's not get into another debate on the when this will happen ...

I respect your point.

Let me conclude with one response to bro. Paul, and not in regard to a time frame.

Okay...then we all must remain ready at all times of that there can be no doubt....be one of the five wise virgins not one of the five unwise (unsaved church attendees who believe but are not saved)...

Brother Paul

Hello bro Paul.

Not just to differ with you but allow me to state my understanding of the parable.

They were all virgins.

To go in with the bridegroom (marriage supper 'first resurrection') they had to have the oil, 'sealed until the day of your redemption'.

The five foolish, stood for Christ and Christ will stand for them at the judgement.

Those in the first resurrection will judge 'men and angels' and will not come into the judgement.

I'm Ready...Lord Jesus Come...I've Been Drawn and Given New Life In Him...I've taken Jesus as My Savior, He is My Lord and King...He Has Filled That Empty Hole That Was In My Heart...Been Transformed and In Continual Transformation and Renewing of My Mind...by Reading His Word and Spending Time In Prayer...Walking with a New Spirit and a New Heart...Washed In The Blood of The Lamb...Been Given Eternal Life...Healed In My Body...I've Been Born again...Baptised in Water and In The Holy Spirit...Given Gifts...By Going To The Secret Place...Kneeling At The Throne of Grace and Mercy...Loving, Worshipping and Adoring My Savior, Lord and King...His Name is Jesus...

Hurting For Those That Don't Know Him Yet...But asking forgiveness because I'm pretty bold about what has happened to me...Hence, Have Sought and Found,The Lord...Going To Him In Prayer...Being Shown The World Through His Eyes and Hearing His Voice...I Walk In The Plans That He Has For Me...

One day...will spend Eternity with Him...He saved and changed me and I needed saving and changing...I almost left this earth without HIm...and knowing what I know now...that would have been totally unacceptable because since that time I have found out The Truth That Made me Free...

Amen and Amen

My desire also.

Rapture ready? Torn. I don't know. I keep learning so much. Although I hate this body due to indwelling sin, I am fully aware that once we are changed, certain things are no longer going to be able to be done. I sat last night with a man for awhile seeking to help him grow in his faith and get to walking straight on the path. I was able to teach him a few things about God he did not know. Rapture happens then that is over. Then there is the idea that I really enjoy marriage and their is a very real possibility that you will see a me shaped pillar of salt somewhere. I have never been able to get it right anyway but something in me really desires to try and try and try some more.

I have already experienced a mini transfiguration. I have already felt what it feels like to have absolutely no need whatsoever without a care in the world. So I am quite sure that none of this will matter afterward but while I am in this body still and not currently experiencing the wondrous joy of being completely overfilled with the Holy Spirit that I have need of nothing, I desire to finish up seemingly unfinished business. Gonna go out and bear witness again tonight because I see the day approaching and there are too many who are not ready.

Peace.

Thank you and God continue to bless you Gary

If being Rapture ready means accepting Jesus I was rapture ready 30 years ago.

That is wonderfull that you realized your position in Christ 30 years ago and ready to meet the charge at hand.

Sincerely

God bless

Sorry 2404, if I understand (which I may not) I have to disagree. The seed is the word and it continued to be planted and bore fruit before, throughout, the reformers time. The early church fathers wrote about all these matters, except the restoration of gifts which were still extant, which they witness too.

If I misunderstood I apologize, and yes I agree we should always be prepared, but since the "man of sin" has not yet been revealed the Rapture will not be NOW (according to the word)!But it could be as soon as the Lord reveals this person. However, IMO the Rapture does not happen until after the reign of the Anti-Christ because the word says that at His coming (the parousia) is when the dead are raised and the elect are gathered unto Him (the rapture) and this is the time according to Paul when this wicked one is destroyed (by the brightness of His parousia or coming).

So since the rapture of the church occurs when the Anti-Christ is destroyed the church must be here while he is alive and doing his ungodly thing. Just my $.02...but if you need the scriptures I am afraid there are so many I may have to split it into two posts...the Lord be with you...

Rapture ready? Indeed as a matter of fact I can hardly wait. Maranatha...Come quickly Lord...

In His name...

Brother Paul

Hello bro Paul

And absolutely, God has had His saints throughout the ages and of course it is a individual affair, as the saying goes 'God does not have any grandchildren, only sons and daughters'.

But God's plan is not static.

There is usually much discussion about the manifestations and augmentation of evil but we can rest assured that God has everything under control.

I believe that if the prince of this world is trying to do something we can know that it is only 'his' copy/reaction to what God has already done.

Point being, what does that 'standard' look like?

We already have 172 threads on the rapture already, so we really don't need another. If this thread is to discuss what some may see needs done before He returns, that is fine, but let's not get into another debate on the when this will happen ...

I respect your point.

Let me conclude with one response to bro. Paul, and not in regard to a time frame.

After our Lord and Saviour completed the work of redemption and the apostles fell asleep, the seed went into the ground until the fullness of time when it started to come up again through events like:

Martin Luther: Salvation by Grace

John Wesley: Sanctification

1906 Azusa Street: Restoration of the Gifts

Where do we go from here or are we rapture ready?

Any thoughts here?

The Church.

Hey 2404,

I'm still waiting for what you mean by a word seed?

I'm also not sure what the question is?

Hello JTC

I trust you will excuse me for being so slow.

Scripture makes many references to sowing seed, good and otherwise.

Satan’s desire is to foil God’s plan so in the garden he chose to strike at Eve to try and spoil things.

Satan being a spirit entered into the serpent (who at that time was an upright humanoid being) and used him to entice Eve by reasoning against God’s word.

Gen.3:4&5 “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”

The serpent was able to explain it so clearly that Eve accepted it (beguiled).

Today, the dialog may be along the lines of:

Look what I am trying to tell you, you are wonderfully made, look at the possibilities.

Look, God is trying to keep something from you.

Right now you are ignorant but if you take my advice you will be in the know, this is a great thing.

All things belonged to Adam and Eve they had power over everything and they lived by God’s Word, but there existed the possibility to transgress, step out.

In our current condition a word is an intangible concept but when God speaks it becomes reality.

Perhaps you have heard that 'real' faith is a substance, it doesn’t matter what comes against it you know you have it.

As in healing, if God drops something down in your heart that you are going to be well it doesn’t matter what the doctor says you know it is going to be as you have received.

I believe that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil existed in a similar reality.

Matt. 5:21-22

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

So we know by these passages that anger is not a good thing. Anger is sin would you agree? It is not one of the fruits of the Spirit? (Gal. 5:22-23)

Dear fellow posters

I was asked this question you see above.

Gal. 5: 22-23 is:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (23) gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

I read Ephesians 4:26:

Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger.

My conclusion is: anger is ok and can be part of the things noted in Gal. 5:22-23, however, we should handle it the right way.

If you really have a reason to be so, you need to let the anger out.

Have a good day

Thomas

It seems if we truly had a perspective from our position most all controversy would seem trivial.

If we had the whole picture our hearts would ache for the floundering.

If we became angry it would not be at the person but with the circumstance.

I believe in such a condition, which can only be given by God, we can fulfill His commandments.

What is your understanding as to the Tree of Good and Evil?

The ingestion of it caused a reaction.

Gen.3:7"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; ..."

This is interesting and not something I have given much thought to. I have always believed the Tree of Life in both Genesis and Revelation bore fruit that had chemicals or elements that healed and rejuvenated. I had never considered that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil would also contain chemicals or elements that caused Adam and Eve to see their nakedness as evil. I had always thought the action of disobedience was the cause of this.

Now you ask me a question which I can't answer and after a small amount of thought it does open the allegorical door somewhat.

Can you give me your understanding of this please.

True, it was a result of their action of disobedience.

Jesus Christ came to be the sacrificial lamb. He came as the perfect spoken Word.

We are in a fallen condition,and we come by sexual desire, a permissive way. In the beginning it was not so.

As has been said, if eating apples causes sexual awareness (nakedness) we better pass the apples again...

Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Why does the Word say not to lean on our own understanding Pro.3:5.

We are to live by faith, faith in God's Word.

Man does not live by bread alone...