Spirit_Tracker

See, I'm not sure about that... because the angels said that he was about to kill Balaam, as an adversary, and the donkey pretty much saved his life. I read these verses tow fold... one is that Balaam was abusing the donkey by striking it repeatedly, and the other that Balaam was supposed to meet his death that day. And the angel would have spared the donkey and let her live. So I believe there is a message to be learned here... a few of them actually... concerning the abuse of animals and that God can give a voice to an animal. God can give a voice to anything really.

Also, I think I should clarify that this topic is more of a philosophical nature than doctrinal. I hope that helps.

Divisions comes when someone hears or thinks something that is outside of the beliefs of others, and decides to follow them voluntarily, not by force. Onelight, read Rev 5:13 NASB And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." I don't believe anyone is questioning this. Rightly dividing His word is what is important. Just because an ass spoke to Balaam does not mean that the animals will stand accusing people of the bad treatment they did to them. This is not scripture about the end times, but about how God got the attention of a wayward prophet. We cannot take what had happened before and apply it to what will happen in the future like that. Do you believe that a chariot of fire will appear with horses of fire and take us up by a whirlwind into heaven as it did to Elijah in 2 Kings 2:11b? I was thinking where did I say that we will have to answer to animals? I realized that i said "God can make animals speak" and the next sentence was "and we will have to give an account". However, these two sentences are not related. Two statements... I believe we will have to give an account to God for any animal abuse. Job 12:7-10 NASB "But now ask the beasts, and let them teach you; And the birds of the heavens, and let them tell you. (8) "Or speak to the earth, and let it teach you; And let the fish of the sea declare to you. (9) "Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, (10) In whose hand is the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind? What you said is found in two places. Here is the first: and the second: Your two statements tell me that you believe that animals will talk with God to inform Him of the abuse they received from people and we will be held accountable for their confession, and as we stand accountable, they speak on their behalf. Animals don't have to tell God anything, He already knows. Perhaps you can explain what you meant by "speak on their behalf" if you did not mean that they will be accusing people for the abuse they had from them? What other "behalf" would there be? If I am mislead, please clarify. No I am not saying that animals will talk to God and tell Him who abused them. Yes I know God already knows. "speak on their own behalf." The Donkey spoke to Balaam. The donkey spoke on it's own behalf, with a real voice. The angel did not speak for the donkey. The donkey spoke... and she asked him "why are you hitting me?". What does this mean to you OneLight? Is this just fluke incident in the bible? Did the angel really use the donkey like a ventriloquist would? And the donkey's words were really the angels? Or did the donkey open its mouth and speak on it's own behalf? Also what does the verse in Revelation mean to you? Rev 5:13 NASB And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." Do you read this verse as every created thing will say... as in speaking, or do you think this is symbolism or?

Divisions comes when someone hears or thinks something that is outside of the beliefs of others, and decides to follow them voluntarily, not by force. Onelight, read Rev 5:13 NASB And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." I don't believe anyone is questioning this. Rightly dividing His word is what is important. Just because an ass spoke to Balaam does not mean that the animals will stand accusing people of the bad treatment they did to them. This is not scripture about the end times, but about how God got the attention of a wayward prophet. We cannot take what had happened before and apply it to what will happen in the future like that. Do you believe that a chariot of fire will appear with horses of fire and take us up by a whirlwind into heaven as it did to Elijah in 2 Kings 2:11b? I was thinking where did I say that we will have to answer to animals? I realized that i said "God can make animals speak" and the next sentence was "and we will have to give an account". However, these two sentences are not related. Two statements... I believe we will have to give an account to God for any animal abuse. Job 12:7-10 NASB "But now ask the beasts, and let them teach you; And the birds of the heavens, and let them tell you. (8) "Or speak to the earth, and let it teach you; And let the fish of the sea declare to you. (9) "Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, (10) In whose hand is the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind?

Are you saying the SAME animals (soul) that were here on earth will be ressurected in Heaven and/or the New Heaven/New Earth? Curious. I'm not sure I would say that animals have a soul, but they do have the breath of life, which is related to having a spirit to whatever extent that may mean. Without God's breath of life in them, they would be dead flesh with no life. They can not earn salvation nor do they have the ability to discern right from wrong. But they do have value, and a plan laid out for them in the new earth. As far as the SAME animals, Well, I say yes, I believe that and that's in my spirit... but there are certain things that I will not disclose because it is personal, I agree with Onelight on that, and I have refrained from delving into these matters from the start. Look around you, there are many Christians that believe 100% that their beloved pets will be with them in heaven, who are we to say they are wrong? Are we in doom of damnation if they believe that? One lady said that God revealed to her this in dreams. And if I ask you, do you believe they are NOT the same? I believe any pet or animal like my dog Courage that dies goes back to the earth. In other words they die and that's it. There is no evidence Biblically speaking that animals have spirits and/or souls. Or is there? Or is this a personal belief you hold? There is no condemnation for those who believe that their pets will be in Heaven. Christ is the key factor. It could go either way as Scripture is silent on the matter as I've mentioned earlier. Interesting discussion. I think it's time to move onto something else though... lol... I think a ton of perspectives, beliefs and scripture have been shared here... Please don't close it though because there may others who would like to share their belief.

Are you saying the SAME animals (soul) that were here on earth will be ressurected in Heaven and/or the New Heaven/New Earth? Curious. I'm not sure I would say that animals have a soul, but they do have the breath of life, which is related to having a spirit to whatever extent that may mean. Without God's breath of life in them, they would be dead flesh with no life. They can not earn salvation nor do they have the ability to discern right from wrong. But they do have value, and a plan laid out for them in the new earth. As far as the SAME animals, Well, I say yes, I believe that and that's in my spirit... but there are certain things that I will not disclose because it is personal, I agree with Onelight on that, and I have refrained from delving into these matters from the start. Look around you, there are many Christians that believe 100% that their beloved pets will be with them in heaven, who are we to say they are wrong? Are we in doom of damnation if they believe that? One lady said that God revealed to her this in dreams. And if I ask you, do you believe they are NOT the same?

Okay... Please clarify? Genesis 9:16; “Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.” Hosea 2:18 “In that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky and the creatures that move along the ground. Bow and sword and battle will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down in safety.” Isaiah 11:6-9 reads, “And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. Also the cow and the bear will graze, Their young will lie down together, And the lion will eat straw like the ox. The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea.” Obviously this isn’t a picture of this old earth! Impossible! This is a description of a new earth and new HEAVEN! Isn’t that a WONDEFUL image? It will be GLORIOUS! “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away,…”(Rev 21:1 NASB)

I can understand OneLight. But why is it that we must see through a mirror dimly or a glass darkly? I really is a whole lot simpler than you try to make it. It is because scripture tells us this. 1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. Right, I see what you're saying. Although the Word of God is never complicated, this mustn't be confused with that it is never complex. I agree that our knowledge, that we'll have when we are face to face with Christ, will seem dim comparatively speaking to our knowledge that we have now. You want to see complicated then read Barnes and Henry's commentary on 1 Corinthians 13:12 lol. I don't read commentaries. There are so many that don't agree that a person can walk away far more confused then they were when they first started. This thread has very little to do with the word of Go. This thread is basically asking the question all pet owners have, or had, about their pets. The problem arises when others come in saying that God told them this and that when scripture is silent. God can reveal certain specifics about our personal walk to us that is not found in scripture, as you mentioned about who should we marry, but to claim that one is given special revelations, red flags pop up everywhere in me. Okay, so you don't believe that God can and is willing to answer such a question asked of Him because it's not salvation critical. You've made that point... and we disagree, but because we disagree, now I feel you are going even further by trying to discredit me in other ways as well. You know, I've enjoyed coming on here and contributing in various ways, sharing my faith and consulting with scripture on matters...Please, if you are trying to push me into a corner, don't. I am just simply sharing my faith. This question that I asked is not proposed to steer people away from Christ or the Truth in the bible, and I don't believe has. So I am going to revert back to the scriptures I posted in the original post as being all the confirmation I need to believe that our beloved pets will be with us in heaven. These are the scriptures I believe God showed me when I prayed and asked of Him this question. I have asked this question for 30 years... and each time I pray about it, I believe it has been confirmed. My confirmation from God came from these verses, although the verse themselves are not a direct answer, they are very supportive of the answer to such a question. It is important to me to know, and I believe God knows that... not as a salvation critical matter, but as a being with a heart. This thread started out as sharing scripture of God's covenant with his creation, all of them, and how I believe these are verse support an answer to my question. As far as the Holy Spirit speaking beyond scripture, many have debated over this time and time again, some for, whilst others opposed to it's concept. Some people believe that to say "God speaks beyond scripture" is inviting abuse in one way or another, however, if people are going to abuse, they are going to abuse in God's Word and out of it too. You'd be surprised who all believes God speaks beyond scripture... but never contradicting it. However, my response from God came on the back of scripture... No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that when we have such a question, and we believe God has answered, to know if the answer we believe we have received is what He really was saying will not be proven until the time comes for us to be with Him. The fact is, if it is not in scripture, we should always keep it personal and not make it a doctrinal stance for others. To be more direct, if you believe God told you that you pet will be in heaven, since it is not in scripture, it is extra-biblical and should be held at the personal level and not make it equal to scripture. Take a long look around you. Many who have included their personal revelation into their doctrine are those who have divided the body we see today, and have weakened the body with such. God gave us His word and this is our standard we are to follow. If someone follows the bible while including their personal revelation, they are not following the word of God, but a mixture of His word and their personal doctrine. When something is not found in scripture, place it at a lower level then scripture, no matter how sure we are. God will never go against His word and His word is what we need to regain a relationship with Him. I agree with that. This topic was started, not be equal with doctrine but, from the inspiration of God's Word. But honestly, I am not the one taking it to the degree of doctrine. The things that are moot points in this topic are subject to discussion and not necessarily in need of a one-sided agreement. They are not salvation critical. Nothing that is inspired by scripture, but not exactly spelled out in scripture, is for the dividing up of believers. It's mankind's interpretation of scripture the forcing thereof that have divided believers. Division comes from those who are forcing their doctrine on others, both from scripture and from extra-biblical sources. If they don't agree with them on scripture, then they deem them an apostate or not really saved. With all due respect, I am going to hold my ground on this one. I have provided ample scripture that are supportive of my belief. I am sharing my faith. I have provided scripture on the following; God has a covenant with the animals of earth. God created animals originally to be non-perishable, and they will be that again on the new earth. There is solid evidence that animals are in the new earth. There is solid evidence that there are animals in heaven (the angels ride on horses) as well as animal like creatures in Rev. like a calf, lion and eagle. There is solid evidence that God cares about animals and has a purpose for them. There is solid evidence that God hates the abuse of animals. There is solid evidence that God can make animals speak on their own behalf. There is solid evidence that every created living creature, in heaven, on earth and in sea, and everything between, will shout "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessings, and honor, and glory and dominion forever and ever" Will you point to scripture where you find your solid evidence as to when we will be confronted by those whom we have done wrong to, be it human or not? Your statement "There is solid evidence that God can make animals speak on their own behalf." is a personal belief, from what I have read. The scripture I stand on are the ones where the books will be opened, or we will be judged according to our works. There is never any mention of any created standing in person with accusations on that day. Divisions comes when someone hears or thinks something that is outside of the beliefs of others, and decides to follow them voluntarily, not by force. Onelight, read Rev 5:13 NASB And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." and read Num 22:22-28 NASB But God was angry because he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as an adversary against him. Now he was riding on his donkey and his two servants were with him. (23) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way with his drawn sword in his hand, the donkey turned off from the way and went into the field; but Balaam struck the donkey to turn her back into the way. (24) Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path of the vineyards, with a wall on this side and a wall on that side. (25) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pressed herself to the wall and pressed Balaam's foot against the wall, so he struck her again. (26) The angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place where there was no way to turn to the right hand or the left. (27) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam; so Balaam was angry and struck the donkey with his stick. (28) And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?" I don't get it, this isn't my "belief"... it's God's Word.

God cares about all of His creation. I agree with that. God can make animals speak and it happened once in Scripture. We will give an account for everything we do in this life. My issue with this line of thinking is that it is easy to slip into placing animals in the same category as human beings. Animals are important but human beings are more important. Instead of having compassion for animals perhaps a better use of our time would be compassion for people? There's a lost and dying world out there. That's fine Goldeneagle, and thank you for your understanding... it is moot, certainly. But i don't think it's vain to ponder these things. As Christians I believe there are two things we should focus that eternal value: God's Word and people. Everything else is just white noise. Would you agree? God bless, GE I agree Goldeneagle, those who hold animals up to the same importance of people need prayer. But, being mature Christians, we also shouldn't think in extremes either though. Just because animals aren't equally important, doesn't mean that God doesn't have a plan for them in heaven or on the new earth. I believe there are those who are called to aid, rescue, and care for animals. The matures ones like JohnDB, know that people are more important, but they still understand that animals were never meant to be abused, trampled on, and devalued by us. God gifted us with them for companionship originally. Nothing more... for us to enjoy them, to the fullest extent possible. They were cursed along with man and will be restored along with the believers. That's a fact. Blessings

I can understand OneLight. But why is it that we must see through a mirror dimly or a glass darkly? I really is a whole lot simpler than you try to make it. It is because scripture tells us this. 1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. Right, I see what you're saying. Although the Word of God is never complicated, this mustn't be confused with that it is never complex. I agree that our knowledge, that we'll have when we are face to face with Christ, will seem dim comparatively speaking to our knowledge that we have now. You want to see complicated then read Barnes and Henry's commentary on 1 Corinthians 13:12 lol. I don't read commentaries. There are so many that don't agree that a person can walk away far more confused then they were when they first started. This thread has very little to do with the word of Go. This thread is basically asking the question all pet owners have, or had, about their pets. The problem arises when others come in saying that God told them this and that when scripture is silent. God can reveal certain specifics about our personal walk to us that is not found in scripture, as you mentioned about who should we marry, but to claim that one is given special revelations, red flags pop up everywhere in me. Okay, so you don't believe that God can and is willing to answer such a question asked of Him because it's not salvation critical. You've made that point... and we disagree, but because we disagree, now I feel you are going even further by trying to discredit me in other ways as well. You know, I've enjoyed coming on here and contributing in various ways, sharing my faith and consulting with scripture on matters...Please, if you are trying to push me into a corner, don't. I am just simply sharing my faith. This question that I asked is not proposed to steer people away from Christ or the Truth in the bible, and I don't believe has. So I am going to revert back to the scriptures I posted in the original post as being all the confirmation I need to believe that our beloved pets will be with us in heaven. These are the scriptures I believe God showed me when I prayed and asked of Him this question. I have asked this question for 30 years... and each time I pray about it, I believe it has been confirmed. My confirmation from God came from these verses, although the verse themselves are not a direct answer, they are very supportive of the answer to such a question. It is important to me to know, and I believe God knows that... not as a salvation critical matter, but as a being with a heart. This thread started out as sharing scripture of God's covenant with his creation, all of them, and how I believe these are verse support an answer to my question. As far as the Holy Spirit speaking beyond scripture, many have debated over this time and time again, some for, whilst others opposed to it's concept. Some people believe that to say "God speaks beyond scripture" is inviting abuse in one way or another, however, if people are going to abuse, they are going to abuse in God's Word and out of it too. You'd be surprised who all believes God speaks beyond scripture... but never contradicting it. However, my response from God came on the back of scripture... No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that when we have such a question, and we believe God has answered, to know if the answer we believe we have received is what He really was saying will not be proven until the time comes for us to be with Him. The fact is, if it is not in scripture, we should always keep it personal and not make it a doctrinal stance for others. To be more direct, if you believe God told you that you pet will be in heaven, since it is not in scripture, it is extra-biblical and should be held at the personal level and not make it equal to scripture. Take a long look around you. Many who have included their personal revelation into their doctrine are those who have divided the body we see today, and have weakened the body with such. God gave us His word and this is our standard we are to follow. If someone follows the bible while including their personal revelation, they are not following the word of God, but a mixture of His word and their personal doctrine. When something is not found in scripture, place it at a lower level then scripture, no matter how sure we are. God will never go against His word and His word is what we need to regain a relationship with Him. I agree with that. This topic was started, not be equal with doctrine but, from the inspiration of God's Word. But honestly, I am not the one taking it to the degree of doctrine. The things that are moot points in this topic are subject to discussion and not necessarily in need of a one-sided agreement. They are not salvation critical. Nothing that is inspired by scripture, but not exactly spelled out in scripture, is for the dividing up of believers. It's mankind's interpretation of scripture the forcing thereof that have divided believers. Division comes from those who are forcing their doctrine on others, both from scripture and from extra-biblical sources. If they don't agree with them on scripture, then they deem them an apostate or not really saved. With all due respect, I am going to hold my ground on this one. I have provided ample scripture that are supportive of my belief. I am sharing my faith. I have provided scripture on the following; God has a covenant with the animals of earth. God created animals originally to be non-perishable, and they will be that again on the new earth. There is solid evidence that animals are in the new earth. There is solid evidence that there are animals in heaven (the angels ride on horses) as well as animal like creatures in Rev. like a calf, lion and eagle. There is solid evidence that God cares about animals and has a purpose for them. There is solid evidence that God hates the abuse of animals. There is solid evidence that God can make animals speak on their own behalf. There is solid evidence that every created living creature, in heaven, on earth and in sea, and everything between, will shout "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessings, and honor, and glory and dominion forever and ever"

I agree it's a possibility brother. Thanks for your patience in helping me understand what you were trying to communicate. Once again we're talking about a possibility. Scripture is silent on this matter. So the opinion that A. there may be pets or animals in Heaven is of equal weight as that of someone B. who says there will not be pets in Heaven. There is no way to verify this one way or another except when we die. It's really a moot point. Either there will be animals in Heaven and it will great or there won't be and it will still be awesome! Heaven is not about our hapiness but about God's glory would you agree? Now, we will be joyful, happy, etc. in Heaven. Still again Scripture is silent on this matter. God bless, GE That's fine Goldeneagle, and thank you for your understanding... it is moot, certainly. But i don't think it's vain to ponder these things.

Something Scripture is silent on is foolish if it disagrees with your view? Interesting. Scripture is not silent though Isa 65:23-25 NASB "They will not labor in vain, Or bear children for calamity; For they are the offspring of those blessed by the LORD, And their descendants with them. (24) "It will also come to pass that before they call, I will answer; and while they are still speaking, I will hear. (25) "The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent's food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain," says the LORD. Isa 11:4-9 NASB But with righteousness He will judge the poor, And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked. (5) Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins, And faithfulness the belt about His waist. (6) And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. (7) Also the cow and the bear will graze, Their young will lie down together, And the lion will eat straw like the ox. (8) The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. (9) They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea. God can and will make the animals speak. SO remember, every animal we abused, we will give an account for. Num 22:22-28 NASB But God was angry because he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as an adversary against him. Now he was riding on his donkey and his two servants were with him. (23) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way with his drawn sword in his hand, the donkey turned off from the way and went into the field; but Balaam struck the donkey to turn her back into the way. (24) Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path of the vineyards, with a wall on this side and a wall on that side. (25) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pressed herself to the wall and pressed Balaam's foot against the wall, so he struck her again. (26) The angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place where there was no way to turn to the right hand or the left. (27) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam; so Balaam was angry and struck the donkey with his stick. (28) And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?" God even describe the gender of the donkey... she was important to God. GOD CARED ABOUT THE DONKEY!!!!!! Num 22:32-33 NASB The angel of the LORD said to him, "Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come out as an adversary, because your way was contrary to me. (33) "But the donkey saw me and turned aside from me these three times. If she had not turned aside from me, I would surely have killed you just now, and let her live." PRAISE GOD!

I think I can honestly say this: I have no idea. But Scripture does say this: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. -- 1 Corinthians 2:9 Amen! I look forward to this! However, this doesn't mean that we have not been given a glimpse of the other side. Ezekiel 1: "4 Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud with raging fire engulfing itself; and brightness was all around it and radiating out of its midst like the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5 Also from within it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man. 6 Each one had four faces, and each one had four wings. 7 Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the soles of calves’ feet. They sparkled like the color of burnished bronze. 8 The hands of a man were under their wings on their four sides; and each of the four had faces and wings. 9 Their wings touched one another. The creatures did not turn when they went, but each one went straight forward." Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 4:1-5 NASB After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things." (2) Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne. (3) And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald in appearance. (4) Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads. (5) Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God; I mean if we're going to be scripturally of sound mind, then we must admit that God shows us quite a bit of HIs mysteries in His Word. But like I said, a lot of people pretty much just skip through these parts because they lack the ability to connect with these descriptions. It's just too much for them to swallow... However, if we look at the kinds of people that were willing to attach a visual to them, what we find are artist... not bragging or anything but that's just how God made us artist... now whether or not it's accurate is another thought, but as a christian artist, I love to visualize.

I don't think any google satellite photos are newer than 1 to 3 years... maybe even older. http://support.google.com/maps/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=22040

Awesome!

It's kind of like reading books that Watchman Nee wrote. I really enjoy reading them and I connect with a majority of his writing... He was a very deep spiritual writer. But that doesn't mean I agree with everything he writes. I mean there are some things that he teaches on, I think to myself... yeah, not so much. However, most of his teachings are very enriching and I believe taught to him by God's Spirit. Just in a different way than to others. Concerning the matters I don't necessarily agree with, that doesn't mean red flags go up for me... it just means that I don't connect with it... whether right or wrong. That's between God and him, and I just roll by them.

lol, hey, anything is possible. I imagine it would have been awesome to see that though! Imagination or not

I can understand OneLight. But why is it that we must see through a mirror dimly or a glass darkly? I really is a whole lot simpler than you try to make it. It is because scripture tells us this. 1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. Right, I see what you're saying. Although the Word of God is never complicated, this mustn't be confused with that it is never complex. I agree that our knowledge, that we'll have when we are face to face with Christ, will seem dim comparatively speaking to our knowledge that we have now. You want to see complicated then read Barnes and Henry's commentary on 1 Corinthians 13:12 lol. I don't read commentaries. There are so many that don't agree that a person can walk away far more confused then they were when they first started. This thread has very little to do with the word of Go. This thread is basically asking the question all pet owners have, or had, about their pets. The problem arises when others come in saying that God told them this and that when scripture is silent. God can reveal certain specifics about our personal walk to us that is not found in scripture, as you mentioned about who should we marry, but to claim that one is given special revelations, red flags pop up everywhere in me. Okay, so you don't believe that God can and is willing to answer such a question asked of Him because it's not salvation critical. You've made that point... and we disagree, but because we disagree, now I feel you are going even further by trying to discredit me in other ways as well. You know, I've enjoyed coming on here and contributing in various ways, sharing my faith and consulting with scripture on matters...Please, if you are trying to push me into a corner, don't. I am just simply sharing my faith. This question that I asked is not proposed to steer people away from Christ or the Truth in the bible, and I don't believe has. So I am going to revert back to the scriptures I posted in the original post as being all the confirmation I need to believe that our beloved pets will be with us in heaven. These are the scriptures I believe God showed me when I prayed and asked of Him this question. I have asked this question for 30 years... and each time I pray about it, I believe it has been confirmed. My confirmation from God came from these verses, although the verse themselves are not a direct answer, they are very supportive of the answer to such a question. It is important to me to know, and I believe God knows that... not as a salvation critical matter, but as a being with a heart. This thread started out as sharing scripture of God's covenant with his creation, all of them, and how I believe these are verse support an answer to my question. As far as the Holy Spirit speaking beyond scripture, many have debated over this time and time again, some for, whilst others opposed to it's concept. Some people believe that to say "God speaks beyond scripture" is inviting abuse in one way or another, however, if people are going to abuse, they are going to abuse in God's Word and out of it too. You'd be surprised who all believes God speaks beyond scripture... but never contradicting it. However, my response from God came on the back of scripture...

[qoute] OneLight: ... "your creditability hits a wall. Jesus is not a man like Moses, David or Peter. Jesus is the Son of God." [/qoute] Hmm, but why are you seeking to turn me into a non-creditable person? It is because we don't agree entirely on scripture? If I have said something that someone doesn't agree with, then let us disagree. But my credit-ability is not with any person, it is with God. Jesus said Himself "Joh 14:12 NASB "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father." How is it that my comparison is not appropriate when Christ Himself has said it? I dare not say that we can be like Christ, as in His God-headship, but in His faith. And Peter and Paul, and others, did exactly that.

I can understand OneLight. But why is it that we must see through a mirror dimly or a glass darkly? I really is a whole lot simpler than you try to make it. It is because scripture tells us this. 1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. Right, I see what you're saying. Although the Word of God is never complicated, this mustn't be confused with that it is never complex. I agree that our knowledge, that we'll have when we are face to face with Christ, will seem dim comparatively speaking to our knowledge that we have now. You want to see complicated then read Barnes and Henry's commentary on 1 Corinthians 13:12 lol.

Thank you, I will have a look.

The one clear understanding that we have of "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" is the one clear reference that Jesus gave. Mat 12:22-32 NASB Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. (23) All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, "This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?" (24) But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons." (25) And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. (26) "If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? (27) "If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. (28) "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. (29) "Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. (30) "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. (31) "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. (32) "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." To put it simple, believer or non-believer, if the Holy Spirit has performed a miracle such as a healing in our midst, and we say that the devil did it, we blasphemy. It's not forgivable.

Miss Agapelove... it is true for us to share God's Love that lead to the death of the Son of God. But scripture doesn't end there. The bibles teaches us that we must love Him back and to love Him back is to obey His commandments. Joh 14:15 ISV "If you love me, keep my commandments.". The rest of God's Word does not become irrelevant just because we have knowledge of God's Love. God's Love is at the heart of it all but the bible teaches us many of God's attributes... anger, wrath, hate, Judgement, etc. It is good to dig into scripture to learn and have a deeper understanding of Him.

I can understand OneLight. But why is it that we must see through a mirror dimly or a glass darkly? When Moses parted the red sea, was his understanding of what God wanted him to do limited? Was David's godly determination murky when he set out to defeat Goliath? How about Peter, when he told the man to stand up and the man was instantly healed? Was his insight shallow? When Jesus laid his hands on people and healed them, wasn't His faith and knowledge of the Father what gave Him the power to raise the dead? On and on we find through-out scripture men and women of God who had a bold enough faith that God shared with them His Will, in real time... but yet today we are confined to looking it up in the bible? God uses His Word, as an authority... for us believers to have guidelines and a core foundation to initiate a real relationship with Him. But when you pray and ask God "Lord is this the girl you sent for me to marry"? Do we first look it up... what verse is in there that says "Harold, behold I give you Elizabeth"? How do we know God wants us to get married to begin with? It's because Jesus said Himself that being single is not for everyone but for those who are called to be. But we won't find specific instructions for Harold or Elizabeth in there will we? Granted a lot of us goof this one up... when the flesh is strong, and hormones firing in unison, sometimes we just assume that the person we are with is supposed to be the one. But even then, if it happens, and we marry that person, now all of a sudden it is God's Will for us remain faithful to them and not to divorce. Nevertheless, another example would be praying for job A or job B... how do we know which one God wants us to have? Millions of Christians pray this way all the time, and some of them even "expect" God to answer in one way or another. We can fall back to a foundation verse that God will provide... but that doesn't help us know if it's supposed to be job A or B. yet many somehow figure out which one,... and of course many goof it up. I honestly believe that our communication with His Spirit doesn't have to be dim or dark or murky. If it is, that would be because of our current position in our walk. The more the deeds of the flesh are put to death, the more the spirit breaks out and the more we are in harmony with God's Spirit. Of course I am not at the finish line, but I do know that this is true. As far mysteries... have another peak at the book of Ezekiel. I have read parts of it over and over and still only walk away with maybe a 10% of understanding of it. God did reveal some of His mysteries to Ezekiel... and we can only gain an understanding of them in prayer. Of course this is one of many books that a lot of Christians skip over due to how bizarre it appears to be. Let me ask you this? Is not the same Spirit that was in them, also now in us? You know this brings me to a topic that I often ponder... and that is why today's Christians have no real faith that God can and will still perform healing as well as other miracles today? Granted few do, but I'm not talking about praying and having someone be healed by God while in the hospital in conjunction with treatment... that is definitely still God's hand, but where are the instant laying of hands healing? Or the real speaking in tongues... where someone speaks another language having never learned it? Is that reserved for the TV evangelist? I have heard believers say "Perhaps God isn't doing those kinds of things in this day and age". But actually it is the believer who has stopped believing in such a faith. Now don't get me wrong, there are some miracles that happen everyday... but when is the last time someone in your church who was laden with a disease get healed right there in the midst of believers, right before you very eyes? Or someone in a wheelchair stand up and walk? Maybe God wants to perform them in the same manner, and it is us who, over time, have adapted theologies and doctrine that have taken us away from the Truth of God? This is something I think about often, all the time. I keep asking myself, why do Christians say that the Spirit simply isn't moving that way in this day and age... when maybe it us who have stop believing that God can and will perform them. I believe God is looking for a believer who can be used according to His Will... with this same kind of faith that we find in scripture.

I agree GoldenEagle, and I understand from where you are coming. In the grand scheme of things, compared to salvation, this would appear unimportant. However, although it isn't as important as salvation, it has value. Everything that God creates has value... of course what matters concerning our salvation is the most critical part of understanding God's Word. Everything we'll ever need to know about obtaining eternal life is in God's Word. But I didn't mean that they were just some mini-books, but instead to keep in mind how big our God is. The possibility of millions of earth like planets with life on them, with possibly millions of life forms in a wide spectrum of possibly thousands of dimensions. He is HUGE. And I refuse to think small. The bible has been the single most significant inspiration/power in my life thus far. I have been reading it for 35 years... and I do mean reading it... my whole life. I love it. And there is enough life in God's Word, for those who seek it, that when we read it, meditate on it, absorb it, love studying it, and live by it, we will grow and develop into mature children. But it doesn't stop there.., it's enough for salvation, but it doesn't stop there. Our inner person is an eternal spirit.... We are designed with eternity in mind... and I don't have any problems asking God to reveal to me His mysteries. Are they "salvation" critical? No... The Word of God says everything we need to know about living for Christ, denying self, helping our brothers and sisters, and obtaining eternal life. It is life's manual. I am an artist/creator. I create 2D and 3D art... whether it's a painting or 3D models in zbrush, I love to create, design and imagine. God created me to want to know more of Him, to pray and ask Him about anything I desire to know. And I am not ashamed of that, again, I refuse to think small. Someone asked me how do I know it's the Spirit of God speaking to me... was it a vision, or revelation... Well, God's Holy Spirit is in us... He brings us to God's Holy throne in prayer. So when we pray, and do so diligently... our God is willing to answer us. Sometimes it's clear and sometimes our flesh impedes His response. So how do I explain it? Well, it's like one day not knowing, and after praying in the spirit, waking up the next day and knowing. I mean how do you know that you were supposed to marry your wife or husband? Was there a vision or revelation? For some, they just knew.