MarkNigro

Here is how Paul, wiring by the power of the Holy Spirit, stated it: Romans 1:18-23 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Those that hold to evolution from atoms to mankind and long ages of the universe circumvent and violate all scientific principles. Creationists love science and have the right answers to boot. No evolutionists seems to be able to answer or refute the issues I have brought up. That is circumventing science.

The problem that I see with the scripture that you are quoting is that they are not dealing with salvation for eternal life at all. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. The scripture clearly says that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that Paul has the gospel of salavtion. The passages that you quoted from Peter, James, and Hebrews are not about everlasting life versus damantion. Your interpretation of what Paul wrote in the other passages you cited are wrong. If you want I will show you why you must rightly divide the word of God, why Paul has the gospel of salvation, and why the passages you cited are not above salvation for eternal life. It is easier to handle one topic or passage at a time.

It's good that you believe that people of all ages have only one and the same salvation and that salvation is the Lord Jesus Christ himself should we put all our trust and confidence in Him. Unless we come to the Lord Jesus Christ today, salvation will continue to be evasive and the gate of the kingdom of heaven will still be shut, let us all come now to the Lord Jesus in His own way of existence. The Law is just for flesh and same is made for the purpose of pointing and bringing us all to the Lord Jesus, even so the gospel is made for that purpose. Even today, no one can recognize Jesus unless he/she comes to Jesus. We have to know Jesus by and through himself in his own existence and ways of living. There is no other way to know Jesus except through and by Himself. The problem though is how would anyone know anything about Jesus Christ except by words which He spoke which are written and persevered in His word. There have been times when there was no Holy Bible available. Men came up with a fake version of Christianity. The words Jesus spoke in the Holy Bible showed that this indeed was a fake Christianity.

Is that so, isn't it that salvation of the OT people is just the same salvation of the NT people and so do we today, do you disagree? Who is our salvation and their salvation, too? People are saved the same way for all time. But the OT is dominated with Israel under the law. Many passages deal with physical life an death and the earthly kingdom of Israel. There are very few passages about everlasting life. When Jesus Christ comes much of Israel is trying to seek their own righteousness by the law and a deliverer who will restore the kingdom to Israel. That is why they do not recognize Jesus Christ as Saviour for their sins.

Your bible itself says that you think you have eternal life in it, why try to think otherwise? See what the Lord had said considering you are a bible based believer; John 39. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 40. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. It is by coming to Jesus that we might have life, see also Matt. 11. Spoken to those that do not believe in Jesus Christ as God and Saviour, They had the OT not the NT. You are quoting out of context.

That is evasive. The question is the age of things Genesis 1 and Exodus 20:11. That last was spoken by God Himself and written by Him in stone. Anything over 6-days about 6,000 years old is another god.

You didn't answer the question. Does the use of the word day that I have put in bold above imply a 24 hour day? A simple yes or no would be fine. You are evading my original reply with the number of passages I gave. You must stay in context. you have not answered the question. According to you, the word day means a 24 hour period, only. According to you the word day has no other meaning outside of a 24 hour period. So, A) are you now taking that back and admitting that the word day has meanings other then a 24 hour period? or B) are you sticking with your initial statements that the word day has no other meaning other than a 24 hour period. I have made it easy for you, pick either A or B. Thanks You asked for the passages. I gave you the passages. You ignored the passages. That is how all evolutionists work. I have given you many questions and you have answered none. That is evasion, a technique that proves that the facts and truth is against you. Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Spoken by God once and written twice. That makes it exactly 6 24-hour days. Genesis 1 numbers the days and says morning and evening. That makes it exactly 6 24-hour days. I am not an evolutionist, I have told you this many times. Why do you still bear false witness against me? next, you are still not answering the question. I will not stop asking till you answer...does the word "day" have other meanings besides a 24 hour period? Yes or no. Those are the only two choices. please pick one and then we can move on. I 'll make you a deal. I will answer your question if you address my original post with all the passages. Deal? You first. in post number 5 of this thread I addressed your OP. I am not sure what more you want from me. "before" the big bang there was God, how is the Big Banger. (before being a relative term since time is a result of creation). Now, please answer my question, does the word "day" have meanings outside of just the 24 hour period you that have claimed it means? I will settle for a simple yes or no. Address the actual words I wrote. God spoke the following words once and wrote it twice with His own finger into stone. Six days is six days. At the time this was spoken and written (circa 1500 BC) that is 24 hour days. If it weren’t six 24-hour days God would have lied or deceived the Israelites. Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Look at Genesis 1. From the above verse, the whole chapter took only 6 days. It is always days throughout the whole chapter. The days are numbered. Notice also that the day is divided into evening and morning. Notice the order of creation does not match the order given by the Big Bang theory of billions of years. The Sun is created on day 4, the Earth day 1. The trees are created on day 3, but the fish are created on day 5. Also note that in verse 31, at the end of day 6, God said it was very good. But the long ages theory would have had death, disease, and suffering of a multitude of creatures for over billion years at this point. Does not sound very good at all. Adam and Eve would have looked at God and said “are you kidding me?” No wonder they did not believe God in Genesis 3. Genesis 1:1-31 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Jesus Christ said: Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. The Big Bang theory has people created after about 12 billion years. The Holy Bible has it as only in day 6. Jesus also said: Luke 11:50-51 50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. That would hardly match 12 billion years later. Anyone trying to claim long ages will never be able to defend the worldwide flood in the days of Noah. Genesis 7:11-24 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. 13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; 14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. 15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. 16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in. 17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth. 18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. 24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days. John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words ...

Those words are not mine and same are not meant for doctrine or teaching for anyone to take into his/her faith. All we need today is to come to the Lord God and learn from Him the truth that we need for our salvation. The bible and the words in it cannot save us but the one whom the bible testifies to us today, He alone can save us should we come to and call on to Him the way He wants us to, let us subject ourselves to God only. Also, avoid putting the Lord God and the seasons of time in a box lest you be slaved to it. No one can manage the affairs of the Lord God but Himself only. The Holy Bible contains the very words of God. They are the words of everlasting life. I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. I am not slaved to a book. I have the very wisdom of God in that book.

You didn't answer the question. Does the use of the word day that I have put in bold above imply a 24 hour day? A simple yes or no would be fine. You are evading my original reply with the number of passages I gave. You must stay in context. you have not answered the question. According to you, the word day means a 24 hour period, only. According to you the word day has no other meaning outside of a 24 hour period. So, A) are you now taking that back and admitting that the word day has meanings other then a 24 hour period? or B) are you sticking with your initial statements that the word day has no other meaning other than a 24 hour period. I have made it easy for you, pick either A or B. Thanks You asked for the passages. I gave you the passages. You ignored the passages. That is how all evolutionists work. I have given you many questions and you have answered none. That is evasion, a technique that proves that the facts and truth is against you. Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Spoken by God once and written twice. That makes it exactly 6 24-hour days. Genesis 1 numbers the days and says morning and evening. That makes it exactly 6 24-hour days. I am not an evolutionist, I have told you this many times. Why do you still bear false witness against me? next, you are still not answering the question. I will not stop asking till you answer...does the word "day" have other meanings besides a 24 hour period? Yes or no. Those are the only two choices. please pick one and then we can move on. I 'll make you a deal. I will answer your question if you address my original post with all the passages. Deal? You first.

You didn't answer the question. Does the use of the word day that I have put in bold above imply a 24 hour day? A simple yes or no would be fine. You are evading my original reply with the number of passages I gave. You must stay in context. you have not answered the question. According to you, the word day means a 24 hour period, only. According to you the word day has no other meaning outside of a 24 hour period. So, A) are you now taking that back and admitting that the word day has meanings other then a 24 hour period? or B) are you sticking with your initial statements that the word day has no other meaning other than a 24 hour period. I have made it easy for you, pick either A or B. Thanks You asked for the passages. I gave you the passages. You ignored the passages. That is how all evolutionists work. I have given you many questions and you have answered none. That is evasion, a technique that proves that the facts and truth is against you. Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Spoken by God once and written twice. That makes it exactly 6 24-hour days. Genesis 1 numbers the days and says morning and evening. That makes it exactly 6 24-hour days.

You didn't answer the question. Does the use of the word day that I have put in bold above imply a 24 hour day? A simple yes or no would be fine. You are evading my original reply with the number of passages I gave. You must stay in context.

The Holy Bible has a last and final statement. It is now a finished book. There are no more revelations from God until rapture. Revelation 22:18-21 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Many have tried to add words beyond that last and final statement. They fail to heed Paul's warning. 2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Points of clarification Mark, 1. Where in the prophecies of the Lord God, both in the OT and the NT, can we find that the Lord God or the angels who brought the good news then said that the flesh which is by the HS was a part of Jesus Christ considering that the name Jesus then is clearly written as one of the names that God commanded to be called to that flesh? 2. What is that flesh to you, God or man? Remember, I do agree with you that the Almighty Lord God is the Lord Jesus Christ, we are one in that belief. Not sure it makes much difference. But here are scripture about the Word made flesh. John 1:1-3, 10-12, 14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 John 4:2-3 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Saying Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is truly different from saying the flesh born out of Mary is part of Jesus Christ. The HS created a flesh in Mary's womb and same is a flesh like us and not part of the Godhood neither is that flesh part of the Lord Jesus Christ but just a vessel or speaker phone so to speak. Not sure it matters that much. John did write And the Word was made flesh Of course, after the resurrection Jesus Christ has a glorious body, yet the marks of the crucifixion are still in His hands and side.

God spoke the following words once and wrote it twice with His own finger into stone. Six days is six days. At the time this was spoken and written (circa 1500 BC) that is 24 hour days. If it weren’t six 24-hour days God would have lied or deceived the Israelites. Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Look at Genesis 1. From the above verse, the whole chapter took only 6 days. It is always days throughout the whole chapter. The days are numbered. Notice also that the day is divided into evening and morning. Notice the order of creation does not match the order given by the Big Bang theory of billions of years. The Sun is created on day 4, the Earth day 1. The trees are created on day 3, but the fish are created on day 5. Also note that in verse 31, at the end of day 6, God said it was very good. But the long ages theory would have had death, disease, and suffering of a multitude of creatures for over billion years at this point. Does not sound very good at all. Adam and Eve would have looked at God and said “are you kidding me?” No wonder they did not believe God in Genesis 3. Genesis 1:1-31 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Jesus Christ said: Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. The Big Bang theory has people created after about 12 billion years. The Holy Bible has it as only in day 6. Jesus also said: Luke 11:50-51 50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. That would hardly match 12 billion years later. Anyone trying to claim long ages will never be able to defend the worldwide flood in the days of Noah. Genesis 7:11-24 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. 13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; 14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. 15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. 16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in. 17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth. 18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. 24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Points of clarification Mark, 1. Where in the prophecies of the Lord God, both in the OT and the NT, can we find that the Lord God or the angels who brought the good news then said that the flesh which is by the HS was a part of Jesus Christ considering that the name Jesus then is clearly written as one of the names that God commanded to be called to that flesh? 2. What is that flesh to you, God or man? Remember, I do agree with you that the Almighty Lord God is the Lord Jesus Christ, we are one in that belief. Not sure it makes much difference. But here are scripture about the Word made flesh. John 1:1-3, 10-12, 14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 John 4:2-3 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

On my part, I do not believe OSAS theory because salvation is conditional and we have to maintain it with us once same is given to us by the Lord Jesus Christ himself and not by the bible. You cannot earn salvation by anything you do or by any merit of your own. For the same reason you cannot lose salvation. Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved is Absolutely True. The Holy Bible has many verses or passages that prove this. Here are just a few. There are many more. Jesus Christ who is God said: John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. If someone has everlasting life, then they could never be damned. If not, they did not have everlasting life but potentially had everlasting life. The verse would say, “might have everlasting life.” Jesus Christ, who is God, would not lie especially with the double verily. Jesus also said: John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Verse 15 and 16 say the same thing and by the same logic prove eternal security. Both also emphatically claim, “should not perish” which again proves eternal security. In verse 18, Jesus Christ says that they are not condemned. All again prove eternal security. Jesus Christ also said: John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? In verse 26, Jesus Christ said that they shall never die. Surely you believe God. Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles, wrote: Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. If your sealed till the day of redemption, you could not be damned. In the following verse, Jesus says He is with the saved and will never leave them. How could they ever go to hell? Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. Jesus Christ the Lord also said: John 10:28-30 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. If someone has “eternal life,” then they could never be damned. If not, they did not have eternal life but potentially had eternal life. Jesus Christ, who is God, would not lie. Again Jesus Christ is emphatic that “they shall never perish.” Obviously no man can pluck them out of Jesus’ hand or His Father’s hand. The apostle John wrote the following. How can you know that you have eternal life if it is only a maybe? 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. The next passage, written by Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles, says, “are saved,” not might be saved. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Potentially damned could not be salvation as written by Paul in the following passage. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. The following words spoken by Jesus Christ again prove once saved always saved. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Before the rapture, for those that are saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, there are only 2 possibilities and only one outcome. If they die before the rapture, they get a glorified body and are forever with the Lord. If they are alive at the rapture, they get a glorified body and are forever with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. The above sampling absolutely proves that eternal security (once saved always saved) is absolutely true. They are emphatic and quite clear. Since the Holy Bible has no contradictions, anything that you think shows otherwise is just your mistaken interpretation. Many people assume a passage is talking about salvation/damnation when it is not. This is usually done by taking the verse out of context, assuming meanings of words with false definitions and doctrines, ignoring what salvation really means, or by not rightly dividing the word of truth (see 2 Timothy 2:15) They may be confusing statements made to a different people, for a different time, about a different subject. They may even be using a new Bible version with a corrupt reading. From the above, we are assured by God Almighty the Saviour that if you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are saved forever. Those that are saved through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His shed blood have all their sins paid for by that blood. They have all their sins forgiven by faith in His atoning blood. God will not remember their sins. Therefore, no passage of damnation or condemnation applies to those saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Those that have not believed by faith alone are not saved. None of their sins are paid for, forgiven, or forgotten. Every passage of damnation or condemnation applies to them. Many of these quote the very passages that condemn themselves. In love, in Christ, in meekness, Mark

Just as a Note: Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles. Paul probably wrote Hebrews (that is what I believe). The letters that Paul wrote to teh Gentiles does not include Hebrews, since it does not begin with Paul ... Those letters are Romans to Philemon. That is why Paul wrote: 2 Thessalonians 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write. Just checking, Eternal security, once saved always saved, is true. ​Do you believe that?

I think that you can make people begin to questions the assumptions that they were indoctrinated by the theory of evolution. But it is very hard and rare. Many do indeed see it own their own when they actually look at the DNA code and the impossible odds. Sometimes just the seed of doubt is planted. In the end the preaching of the cross is the only way to change a hard heart. Many after salavtion will chnage their mind about evolution and old ages but it is the Holy Spirit which teaches them the truth. 2 Timothy 2:25-26 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I am not sure what part of the planet you live in, but where i am the time between evening and morning is about 11 hours and that changes with the seasons. Can we at least agree the word day has more than one meaning? And yes, one step at a time is the only way to tackle this....it is like eating an elephant....one bite at a time It means 24 hours. ok, lets try this for a change... Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. (ESV) These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, (KJV) Does the word day in this verse mean 24 hours? Gen 1:5... .God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day. The first use of the word day in this verse, does it mean 24 hours? On day 1 in Genesis 1:1 God made the heaven and the earth. day = 24 hrs

I am not sure what part of the planet you live in, but where i am the time between evening and morning is about 11 hours and that changes with the seasons. Can we at least agree the word day has more than one meaning? And yes, one step at a time is the only way to tackle this....it is like eating an elephant....one bite at a time It means 24 hours. ok, lets try this for a change... Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. (ESV) These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, (KJV) Does the word day in this verse mean 24 hours? Gen 1:5... .God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day. The first use of the word day in this verse, does it mean 24 hours?

I agree that good works will come from those that are saved as a result of salvation but not its cause. Those good works are the Holy Spirit working within the saved.

Now this as with many concepts in the Word we must know there is a reasoning required to arrive at a deeper truth James 2:18-20 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe — and tremble! NKJV So now there are two beliefs one that save and one that does not thus study to understand difference! Love, Steven Jesus Christ proclaimed the following. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. Since belief is the only thing mentioned, it must be the only thing necessary for salvation. It cannot be belief plus anything else. If it were, then the statement would not be true. But Jesus said this, so it must be true. If you do not believe these words spoken by Jesus Christ, then you do not believe what Jesus Christ said. Here are just some of the scriptures for this. Salvation is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His shed blood on the cross. It is not of works. Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11:13), wrote the following. Obviously works are not needed for salvation since it explicitly says so in verse 9. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The only belief that does not count is a false belief. The following passages show that a works based or merit based belief does not count. You must believe that you are justly under God's damnation for sin and that nothing can save you except simple faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Analysis of James 2:14-26 The verse quoted from James 2 has nothing to do with salvation for everlasting life. When used as such it is the equivalent of a gnat that someone has strained at. The gnat is a piece of scripture that is taken out of context and then altered. The alteration may ignore words, add words (through a false definition), or actually change the words into other words. But the conclusion requires that you disregard the rest of scripture, which clearly says that salvation is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and not of works. That is the camel that must be swallowed (ignore all that other scripture) to build a doctrine from the strained gnat. (See Matthew 23:24). Based on verse 2 below, Paul declares that Abraham was not justified before God by works. Abraham was saved by faith in verse 3. Since Abraham was not justified before God by works, Abraham could not have been saved by works, since only God’s justification counts for salavtion. Therefore Abraham was saved by faith alone. It is clear that Abraham was not saved by works. Romans 4:1-3 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. In the following passage, James in verse 21 writes that Abraham was justified by works. But from the context of this passage, Abraham is not justified by works before God but before men. This is seen in verse 18 by the phrase “I will shew thee my faith by my works.” So Paul and James are not in conflict. James never wrote that Abraham was justified by works before God, nor that Abraham was saved by works. Notice how the gnat of verse 21 is removed from context, and that “before God” is in effect added. In fact Abraham is saved by faith in Genesis 15 but does not offer up Isaac until Genesis 22. Therefore Abraham is saved by faith and not works. The works came as a result of salvation not the cause of salvation. James 2:18, 21 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? In the following passage, Paul declares that no one is saved by works of any kind. Salvation is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. In the next 2 passages, Paul goes a bit farther and says that if anyone is trying to earn salvation by works, they are not saved at all. In fact they must stop working for salvation. Trying to earn or merit salvation by works is to count the blood of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice as not good enough and our works as on par with Christ’s sacrifice. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. In the following passage, notice in verse 10, that everyone who is saved had to cease from his own works to enter into that rest. Therefore, a person must stop trying to earn or merit salvation (works) to be saved. Verse 11 says that working for salvation is actually unbelief (see also Paul in Romans 4:5). Hebrews 11:10-12 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Now look at verse 12 in the above passage. It begins with the word “For.” This links verse 12 to the requirement to stop trying to earn or merit salvation through works in verses 10 and 11. The sharper than any two-edged sword is the word of God. It is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart in this case as to works. So there are places in scripture where works may seem like they are required, but the word of God is sharp enough to show that these are just gnats for those that will not receive the love of the truth. Notice in verse 22 of the passage below that all who believe in Jesus Christ receive the gift of the imputed righteousness of God. The phrase unto all and upon all makes this doubly certain. The payment and forgiveness for sins is given through faith in his blood (verse 25). Justification is by belief in Jesus Christ (verse 26). Nothing else is mentioned for salvation. Romans 3:22-26 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 2 Timothy 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings. Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. Philippians 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment. Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. We are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following. Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Not many do the following either. Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes. 2 Timothy 2:7-8 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red). Galatians 1:11-12,15-16 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Galatians 2:7-9 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task. Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: The gospel of John is identified as the gospel to the world. John 1:11-12 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Jesus Christ said this simple statement. Do you believe it? John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. The following is the testimony of Jesus Christ (see John 3:11 and John3:32-33). From verse 15 it is absolutely sure that “whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” From verse 16 it is absolutely sure that “whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Verse 18 shows that belief in Jesus Christ is the only thing that determines salvation or damnation. Do you believe what Jesus said? John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Jesus Christ said this simple statement. Do you believe it? John 11:25-26 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? James wrote to Jews of the twelve tribes not to Gentiles. James did not write to the Gentiles. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and has the gospel, not James. James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. The reason that this is important is that many times things written to the Jews are not always about saved for everlasting life but saved from physical death. In the following passage the word “save” is from physical death. If not, this is any alternate means to salvation without belief in Jesus Christ. James 5:14-15 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Obviously in this verse, the word “save” means saved for everlasting life. James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. In verse 15 of the following verse, the word “death” is only referring to physical death. “Once saved always saved” is the truth and James called them brethren in verse 16, so they are saved. James 1:15-16 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. In the following verse, when it says saved, saved from what? You cannot make a doctrine from this verse until you know the answer to that question? It actually refers to physical death, not damnation. The clue is found in verse 15 with the reference to a brother or sister. James 2:14 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, In love, in Christ, in meekness, Mark

I didn't say anything about science being defined as "that which agrees with the Bible." I said that it is scientists with an atheistic worldview who allow that worldview to drive how they approach science that are in conflict with the Bible. Nope. I don't even see how you can get that out of what I said (unles you are lacking basic reading comphrension skills). Generally speaking, the scientific community has been hi-jacked by an atheistic worldview in so far as those scientists who do not worship at the altar of evolution, are denigrated and ridiculed and treated like crackpots. I don't think there is any kind of "conspiracy" per se, but there is embedded in the general scientific community a rejection of the claims the Bible, especially where the issue of origins is concerned. There is a somewhat militant aversion toward scientists who believe the universe was created by God whether they are old earth or young earth creationists. That may be true, but the point is that science and a belief that God created the world and didn't use evolution to do it has never been a hindrance to science. The scientific method used by atheisitic scientists today was formulated by a Creationist who was also a Christian. Galileo, who was a Christian, discovered helio-centrism. , Johannes Keplar discovered the laws governing planetary motion; these men would be ridiculed today for their belief in God as Creator. Isaac Newton was a Bible believing creationist. Many scientific discoveries and Calculus too.

That's mostly what I've been saying! Although at least one person must have read a biography of Abraham Lincoln like a science fiction! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1611224/ So... If the bible doesn't give a scientific account of creation, then how does one know that the BB as God's means of creation, is in conflict with the bible's account of origins? Totally baffled by this. I totally agree that the bible doesn't contain a scientific account of creation. And you can get some people to acknowledge this. But then when asked to interpret Genesis, or to hold up scientific findings in light of Genesis, they immediately revert to reading Genesis as science. I'm going mad. Nicely said God certainly spoke it into existence according to the Holy Bible. But Genesis 1 gives a different order than those that believe God used the Big Bang and then billions of years. The Holy Bible is quite clear that God created everything in 6 days about 6,000 years ago. There is no way to reconcile the Big Bang billions of years ago and what the Holy Bible clearly says. A scientific reading of Genesis clashes with evolution. I dont think we should read it scientifically though. but that said, evolution is not synonymous with the big bang. The time periods in which they operate don't overlap. In fact, even if we were to wrongly read Genesis as science, I don't see how it is possible for the BB timeline to clash because there literally is no timeline. You guys have me seriously baffled. Its as if you think the term big bang refers to the creation of plants and animals? Genesis 1 is the very record of how God created everything in 6 days. It is literal.